How will you get yourself into heaven? On your own merit or via a scapegoat?

jmdewey60
reply to post by ChuckNasty

 

Doing good deeds because you want to...is the message. Shouldn't expect a payment for doing what is right..right?

The "reward" could be that the world is a better place in a next life, thanks in part to what you have done in this life.
I'm just saying, that may be, the afterlife does not necessarily mean literal heaven but could be just another day in the land of the living.

I quoted luke in response to his quote of Matthew. His view was one sided. The meaning is clear.. To those who can see it.

I had read that before making a reply to your earlier post.
I think that you are just seeing it how you want to.

Pretty sure Luke can be taken literally.

If you expect a reward for doing good, then you do it for yourself. If you expect the world to be better, that is the goal... To bring the Kingdom of Heaven to Earth...not bring the Kingdom of Jmdewey..

Expect nothing in return was mentioned...not expect stuff for yourself..

3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by ChuckNasty

 

If you actually understood Jesus' message you wouldn't be saying that. Like I said earlier, Jesus is the good within all of us.

On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.

"That day" obviously hasn't come for you yet, but it has for me and many others as well. I have realized the good that is within me, Christians have not because they believe they are full of sin. If you believe it then you become it, I do not believe it.

If desiring other people to treat me well is somehow bad then so is Jesus desiring mercy a.k.a. good treatment.

I would wager I'm more familiar with the bible than the majority of Christians. I have studied it and have come out with my own meaning, Christians do not study it and take others meanings as their own. Christians do not seek therefore they do not find.

edit on 2/4/2014 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

From that last statement, you seem to be full of yourself. You put yourself ABOVE common folk because you have devine knowledge... Coming from one with your name, I shouldn't expect anything less.

You desiring treatment in return vs treatment for all is not the same.. Sorry if you see it the same.

reply to post by BELIEVERpriest

God is not interested in what we can produce, only what His son produced for us. The picture is Christocentric, not humancentric.

How does any of that makes sense?
You don't think that Jesus came to make the world a better place?
Jesus said that he had come to save the world.
God gave His only son to save the world.
Are you saying God intended to allow the world to languish in sin and suffering?
Is "salvation" just something for the afterlife?
I don't think so and the Bible doesn't think so either.
Salvation is a practical thing that happens right now and makes the world better.

reply to post by ChuckNasty


I don't put myself above anyone, I see everything as a manifestation of God, even you, so nothing is better or above anything else.

Desiring good treatment in return is NOT the same as expecting it. Would you like me to list the definitions of both desire and expect?

I desire world peace but I know it will not happen, if I know it will not happen that means I do not expect it. Do you understand the difference or will you continue to block it out?

3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by ChuckNasty

 

So I guess if vanity is expecting something as a reward, you do not expect to get into heaven?

How exactly do you plan on having heaven on Earth if you do not work towards it? No one has worked towards it since Jesus was here, that's why we're in this situation today. They didn't work for it because they believed Jesus would come back and do it for them, a perfect pacification method put in place by those in power, the same ones who put the bible together.

edit on 2/4/2014 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

But what other response should I expect coming from the 'enlightened one' or the op's 'Greatest I am'....

I do not worship myself or believe that I am 'all that'...

I cannot live the way Christ taught us. I am a sinner. I don't expect to be in Heaven when I die. I just hope to bring a smidget of hope to one person. I do not give all my monies to those who need it as Jesus and his disciples did. I do not go from town to town spreading the word of Christ as they did.

Anyone believing otherwise, I hope you are right. The odds are, we'll be in hell.

reply to post by ChuckNasty


Do you desire to go to heaven? If so, by your logic that means you expect it. If not, you desire to go to hell and if that's the case what's the point in believing at all?

What hope is there if we are all sinners most likely doomed to hell? You have a very dark worldview if you believe those things.

That brings a verse to mind.

23"But if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light that is in you is darkness, how great is the darkness!

Sin is unhealthy, so if you have sin within you and believe so, you have darkness within you.

3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by ChuckNasty

 

I don't put myself above anyone, I see everything as a manifestation of God, even you, so nothing is better or above anything else.

Really? Your quote:

I would wager I'm more familiar with the bible than the majority of Christians. I have studied it and have come out with my own meaning, Christians do not study it and take others meanings as their own. Christians do not seek therefore they do not find.

Nope, you just put yourself above Christians..

Desiring good treatment in return is NOT the same as expecting it. Would you like me to list the definitions of both desire and expect?

....you are serious about that? You can't differentiate between self vs not self? Definitions don't matter, being selfish with an expectation/desire for yourself is not the same as care for others..

I desire world peace but I know it will not happen, if I know it will not happen that means I do not expect it. Do you understand the difference or will you continue to block it out?

edit on 2/4/2014 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

See above.

You are correct when you stated you have come to your own meanings..

3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by ChuckNasty

 

Do you desire to go to heaven? If so, by your logic that means you expect it. If not, you desire to go to hell and if that's the case what's the point in believing at all?

What hope is there if we are all sinners most likely doomed to hell? You have a very dark worldview if you believe those things.

That brings a verse to mind.

23"But if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light that is in you is darkness, how great is the darkness!

Sin is unhealthy, so if you have sin within you and believe so, you have darkness within you.

edit on 2/4/2014 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)

...so you live as Christ taught us??

Yeah right. Get over yourself and see your flaws is the start of being humble.

I am not worthy.

reply to post by ChuckNasty


Me stating the obvious is not me putting myself over anyone else. I'm more familiar with the bible than most Christians, that has nothing to do with me being better than them. With that logic someone who knows how to paint really well is better than me. You're using some convoluted logic.

If me desiring people to treat me good means I am somehow vain, that means Jesus was vain as well because he desired mercy. "He desired it so he expected it! How vain of Jesus!" Again, you've got some convoluted logic going on here.

reply to post by ChuckNasty


You cannot speak for everyone, just because YOU feel like YOU can't live as Jesus instructed doesn't mean no one can. You are projecting your own perceived insecurities and shortcomings onto others.

Matthew 11
30 For my yoke is easy and my burden is light."

I guess what Jesus really meant here is that his teachings on how to be a good person are actually very very difficult and very very heavy, is that about right?

I guess Jesus wasn't humble because he saw himself as superior to everyone else being god and all? Oh wait, he said that even he, "the almighty, all powerful god of everything" was humble.

You're starting to show a lack of knowledge of the bible and what Jesus taught.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

I choose to do good for goodness sake, not for brownie points.

I don't expect anything in return. I am not full of myself as some.

But, to live as Christ taught us...would mean giving up your money, all of it, to the needy. It would also mean forgiving everyone.

If you live your life as in Acts, then I am happy. If you think you live your life as in Acts, but don't, and are happy...bad news..

reply to post by ChuckNasty


I do good for goodness sake as well, so we have that in common at least. Do you only believe because you think it will get you into heaven? If so, that's vanity by your logic. If not, why do you believe?

Giving up all of your money is not possible in today's society, you have to provide for yourself and money is needed in order to do that. If you have no money you are likely to starve to death. I don't even think Jesus would have eaten from a trash can behind the McDonalds.

I'm not full of myself my friend, I just have different beliefs than you. I see God within everything, including you. If that makes me full of myself then you don't know what that phrase means.

I'll go there by God's grace or not at all.

3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by ChuckNasty

 

I do good for goodness sake as well, so we have that in common at least. Do you only believe because you think it will get you into heaven? If so, that's vanity by your logic. If not, why do you believe?

Giving up all of your money is not possible in today's society, you have to provide for yourself and money is needed in order to do that. If you have no money you are likely to starve to death. I don't even think Jesus would have eaten from a trash can behind the McDonalds.

I'm not full of myself my friend, I just have different beliefs than you. I see God within everything, including you. If that makes me full of myself then you don't know what that phrase means.

I also agree with all of the above.

God is in all of us

reply to post by ChuckNasty

Pretty sure Luke can be taken literally.

I personally don't recomend it.
I don't know why you would put so much trust in it.
Luke (a name given to it, where it never mentions that name in the book itself) is a book that admits that the author did not witness any of these events himself but had created a collection of things that he was able to gather from people who he thought were good sources.
"Luke" is something of a myth as a character who was blown up from a mention of someone by that name in one of Paul's letters. By ascribing the book to this person, a fellow "Apostle" with Paul, it could fit the criteria established for admittance into the New Testament canon.
You might say, "but wait, it says somewhere that Luke was a doctor!"
OK, it does say that somewhere but it is in the pseudo-Pauline books that were written after Paul was dead, but was dressed up to appear to have been written by Paul to give it acceptability and the air of authority.

Greatest I am

o0oTOPCATo0o

Greatest I am

o0oTOPCATo0o
I am not religious really at all, so maybe someone can clarify that you get into heaven "By the grace of god"
No good deed will get you in.

So we should not bother with good deeds.

Thanks for your garbage view.

Regards
DL

Easy now pal. Read again. This time understand it.
***I am not religious really at all, so maybe someone can clarify that you get into heaven "By the grace of god"
No good deed will get you in.***
I'm not saying don't bother with good deeds. I'm saying food deeds are not what gets you into heaven. Geez. Maybe someone with a bible can back me up or something. Jesus told someone that as men, we can never do enough to get in to heaven.
All I was trying to say, no need to call my view garbage or anything. Especially because you misunderstood and now look foolish.

edit on 3-2-2014 by o0oTOPCATo0o because: (no reason given)

You are the foolish one when you do not listen to Jesus when he says that we will know his people by their works and deeds.

Regards
DL

Is that how he will know them? How will they get into haven though? Just be at the pearly gates like "Jesus knows me!! He knows me from my work and deeds!"
If charity got you into heaven, people would do it, just to get into heaven. Then it would no longer be charity.

BELIEVERpriest
reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

 

Did Jesus not express love by dying for our sins?

No. What was expressed was rejected by God. Why have you forsaken me?

God would answer because my justice will not allow me to accept bribes and sacrifices and ransoms that I set myself.

Would you elect a judge who demanded bribes and sacrifices to alter his judgements?

I did not think so. So why do you think God would take that role?

Regards
DL

OptimusSubprime
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

If God does something then it is righteous, regardless of what it is. Humans deem other people innocent, however there are no innocent people in God's eyes because we all have sinned and come short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23). God is not capable of sinning, or else He wouldn't be God. Sin is a human condition. There is only one way into heaven, through Jesus Christ.

Was he doing something righteous when he says this in Job 3;2. Satan moved me to destroy without cause?

Is it righteous to kill and destroy innocent humans without a just cause?

How about when he tortured King David's baby for 6 days before finally killing it, --- all because he was angry with David.

Was that God acting with righteousness?

How about the innocent first born of Egypt? Was that God acting with righteousness?

Let me help you decide.

Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) “Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.


Ezekiel 18:20 (ESV) The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not suffer for the iniquity of the father, nor the father suffer for the iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

The declaration which says that God visits the sins of the fathers upon the children is contrary to every principle of moral justice. [Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason]

Regards
DL

jmdewey60
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

When you die, Satan will ask you; how was your ticket to heaven purchased? With innocent blood?

In an indirect way, and symbolically, yes.
Jesus set up a path for us to follow and it included having his life taken from him by evil people representing a corrupt form of pretend righteousness through taking on the outward form of religion.

We don't want to follow in those people's footsteps and crucify Jesus again by claiming a fake righteousness that we only pretend to have.
God demands real righteousness and that was the whole idea behind sending Jesus in the first place, to show us what it is.

edit on 3-2-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)

Why have you forsaken me?

It is not righteous to pay yourself a bribe to corrupt your judgement when you are a judge is it?

Regards
DL

yamammasamonkey
Jesus was THE scapegoat, and accepting him as such is the only way.

So you accept that it is good for us to embrace the notion that it is good to punish the innocent instead of the guilty.

Would you teach your child that it is good to use a scapegoat, in school let's say?

I did not think so.

So why do you think it good for you to profit from punishing the innocent instead of the guilty?

Regards
DL