How will you get yourself into heaven? On your own merit or via a scapegoat?

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posted on Feb, 3 2014 @ 12:19 PM
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How will you get yourself into heaven? On your own merit or via a scapegoat?

Revisit substitutionary atonement or vicarious redemption and scapegoating with me just to refresh your memory.

www.youtube.com...

I am not an atheist but Satan and Christians want atheists to embrace barbaric human sacrifice and the notion that we should profit from punishing the innocent instead of the guilty. Scapegoating IOW.

In reality, if God did demand such a barbaric sacrifice, he would be sinning as we all know that it is immoral to kill the innocent. God knows this yet Christians do not seem to. You do. Right?

Those with good morals will know that no noble and gracious God would demand the sacrifice of a son just to prove it's benevolence. When you die, Satan will ask you; how was your ticket to heaven purchased? With innocent blood?

If and when you say yes, you become his.

-----------------------------------

The other option in scriptures, a moral one, is shown here. 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Scriptures indicate that God prefers repentance to sacrifice and as God’s will is supreme and cannot be thwarted, this will come to pass.

---------------------------------

It is a special distorted Christian view of love that sees, --- as the greatest act of love possible, --- their God condemning them, and then turning and demanding his son’s deaths and thus corrupting God's perfect justice. A bribe set by God as judge himself for himself. This is of course ridiculous.

Christians have an insane view of love, IMO.

Would you express your love for humanity or those you love by having your own child needlessly murdered?

Or if convinced that a sacrifice was somehow good, would you have the moral fortitude to step up yourself to that cross instead of sending your child?

Your cowardly God did not.

Regards
DL




posted on Feb, 3 2014 @ 12:24 PM
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I am not religious really at all, so maybe someone can clarify that you get into heaven "By the grace of god"
No good deed will get you in.



posted on Feb, 3 2014 @ 12:33 PM
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o0oTOPCATo0o
I am not religious really at all, so maybe someone can clarify that you get into heaven "By the grace of god"
No good deed will get you in.


So we should not bother with good deeds.

Thanks for your garbage view.

Regards
DL



posted on Feb, 3 2014 @ 12:41 PM
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I got "saved" when I was at a Baptist Church right around nine years old. They used to send busses out to the neighborhood, load us up and take us back to the church for a couple of hours of games, and a few minutes of preaching. At the time I was only in it for the stop at McDonalds they made on the way back.

Figure I am good to go now so I have not been back to church since.

Oh and did I mention the preacher tried to slide his hand down my pants? Figure if he can go to heaven being a child molester I should be good to go.



posted on Feb, 3 2014 @ 12:46 PM
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I'm kind of looking at qualifying for a job in the other place. I think if you are a good honest person, you may get a job guarding those in hell. Even Satan has to be able to trust his workers to do what he needs done.


Never put your faith into getting to a place where only a few chosen people will ever make it to.



posted on Feb, 3 2014 @ 12:54 PM
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reply to post by Greatest I am
 


Ask yourself two questions:

1). Was I born of my own merit or by the grace of God?

2). As flawed as we all are, what are your good deeds worth to God?

Jesus is the only begotten and sinless son of God. Only the work of Jesus is worth anything to God. Jesus may have been incarnated, but His soul was never created. Jesus' believers go to heaven on account of His credit, not our debt. Its after the righteousness of Christ is credited to us by faith that we are rewarded for good deeds in the afterlife.



posted on Feb, 3 2014 @ 01:18 PM
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posted on Feb, 3 2014 @ 01:19 PM
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posted on Feb, 3 2014 @ 01:21 PM
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posted on Feb, 3 2014 @ 01:22 PM
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Greatest I am
Would you express your love for humanity or those you love by having your own child needlessly murdered?

Or if convinced that a sacrifice was somehow good, would you have the moral fortitude to step up yourself to that cross instead of sending your child?

Your cowardly God did not.


Your supposition anthropomorphises God and so diminishes your capacity to discern Him. If the doctrine of the Trinity has any significance, the sacrifice was, is and ever shall be, of the self.

You speak of Heaven and how we may access it; by our own merit or because we are saved. For some (the Bible advises 144,000) will gain access via their own merit. For the rest, (the Bible advises 'a great multitude'), by the sacrifices of God Himself! And quite right too! It is His responsibility and His alone, to fulfil the purpose(s) of the firmament.

Whichever route each of us may take, anyone that has no love for God will have trouble accessing Heaven.



posted on Feb, 3 2014 @ 01:28 PM
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Mamatus
I got "saved" when I was at a Baptist Church right around nine years old. They used to send busses out to the neighborhood, load us up and take us back to the church for a couple of hours of games, and a few minutes of preaching. At the time I was only in it for the stop at McDonalds they made on the way back.

Figure I am good to go now so I have not been back to church since.

Oh and did I mention the preacher tried to slide his hand down my pants? Figure if he can go to heaven being a child molester I should be good to go.


In this case and other minor close calls, thank God for pedophile priests.

In all other cases where it is not a close call, may they rot in hell.

Regards
DL



posted on Feb, 3 2014 @ 01:29 PM
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rickymouse
I'm kind of looking at qualifying for a job in the other place. I think if you are a good honest person, you may get a job guarding those in hell. Even Satan has to be able to trust his workers to do what he needs done.


Never put your faith into getting to a place where only a few chosen people will ever make it to.


It is lonely at the top.

Regards
DL



posted on Feb, 3 2014 @ 01:34 PM
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BELIEVERpriest
reply to post by Greatest I am
 


Ask yourself two questions:

1). Was I born of my own merit or by the grace of God?

2). As flawed as we all are, what are your good deeds worth to God?

Jesus is the only begotten and sinless son of God. Only the work of Jesus is worth anything to God. Jesus may have been incarnated, but His soul was never created. Jesus' believers go to heaven on account of His credit, not our debt. Its after the righteousness of Christ is credited to us by faith that we are rewarded for good deeds in the afterlife.


Jesus tells us to pick up our cross and follow him.

You think you can pick your cross up and climb onto Jesus' back and that God will accept you.

How sad.

Would you teach your child to uses a scapegoat, in school for instance?

I doubt it. So why would you think it ok for you to use Jesus and profit from his pain and torture?

Regards
DL



posted on Feb, 3 2014 @ 01:40 PM
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I don't know what happens in death, personally, I've never died....

But I hope I've enough of a system imprinted to follow it to the next incarnation... wherever and whatever that may be - even if it's my energy/conscious matrix being absorbed into the whole - with individuality destroyed.

So long as I get where I'm suppose to be going, and not lost in limbo...

I shall be content.

I'm a good person, and when I make mistakes, I auto correct and make strides not to make them again. So in this I do not worry. About the nature of my being. My only real worry, because I take such a comparative approach to belief systems, is will I get lost in my afterlife journey back to source. Since my system is so unlike anyone else I've ever met. Will I be shown a Christian symbol to follow? Ohm? Will a family member come to lead me through? I don't know, however, I hope something is there I recognize so as not to get lost... if that makes sense.

CdT



posted on Feb, 3 2014 @ 01:41 PM
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teapot

Greatest I am
Would you express your love for humanity or those you love by having your own child needlessly murdered?

Or if convinced that a sacrifice was somehow good, would you have the moral fortitude to step up yourself to that cross instead of sending your child?

Your cowardly God did not.


Your supposition anthropomorphises God and so diminishes your capacity to discern Him. If the doctrine of the Trinity has any significance, the sacrifice was, is and ever shall be, of the self.

You speak of Heaven and how we may access it; by our own merit or because we are saved. For some (the Bible advises 144,000) will gain access via their own merit. For the rest, (the Bible advises 'a great multitude'), by the sacrifices of God Himself! And quite right too! It is His responsibility and His alone, to fulfil the purpose(s) of the firmament.

Whichever route each of us may take, anyone that has no love for God will have trouble accessing Heaven.



I agree that the sacrifice is of the self but that hardly get us away from anthropomorphising.
In fact it enhances it. As it should if you think of what Jesus said.

www.youtube.com...

You do not sound Christian. More Gnostic Christian to this Gnostic.

Who is your God?

Regards
DL



posted on Feb, 3 2014 @ 01:43 PM
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You'll get there regardless. All you need is a fairly positive attitude rather than one steeped in hatred or self-pity. "Heaven's" purpose is as a relief for the depraved life you were just forced to live, where you can indulge yourself in how nice it is, meet those dead friends and relatives you choose to, and hang around for as long as you want until you get bored enough to seek the next step in your own evolutionary process. In other words, it really is a "reward" for having to put up with whatever nonsense you had to endure on earth.

It is a PERSONAL ISSUE, not one for which you need any kind of "guidance" from some group that pretends to know all about the requirements, waves some sort of bible in their hands with some scripture written by a sexually deprived psychopathic monk from 1,000 years ago, or some delusional human who tries to convince you he is on the right path and you must follow him to get there, contributions gladly accepted for the cause.

These people and these institutions who tell you that you must follow their way sap your strength. If you throw in with them, you lose the ability to think for yourself. Oh, it may make you feel good to be a part of a group that is convinced their way is the right way. the camaraderie of self-congratulation is real. But what you have done is subjugate yourself to a group of people who really have no more idea what is going on than you do and have created a delusion that they want you to partake of.

Unfortunately a whole lot of people who encounter this blithering idiocy throw out the baby with the bathwater on superficial grounds and claim the whole thing is a crock. You can't really blame them. On the surface it reads like a pre-school fairy tale designed to keep five year olds from acting out. But the best thing you can do personally is to reject these people who wave some sort of quote at you that they find magical and hew your own path. Their path may look easier on the surface, but you really don't want to go there.



posted on Feb, 3 2014 @ 01:46 PM
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CirqueDeTruth
I don't know what happens in death, personally, I've never died....

But I hope I've enough of a system imprinted to follow it to the next incarnation... wherever and whatever that may be - even if it's my energy/conscious matrix being absorbed into the whole - with individuality destroyed.

So long as I get where I'm suppose to be going, and not lost in limbo...

I shall be content.

I'm a good person, and when I make mistakes, I auto correct and make strides not to make them again. So in this I do not worry. About the nature of my being. My only real worry, because I take such a comparative approach to belief systems, is will I get lost in my afterlife journey back to source. Since my system is so unlike anyone else I've ever met. Will I be shown a Christian symbol to follow? Ohm? Will a family member come to lead me through? I don't know, however, I hope something is there I recognize so as not to get lost... if that makes sense.

CdT


No God worth his title would ever lose any of us.

I call myself a Gnostic Christian and esoteric ecumenist.

"I take such a comparative approach to belief systems:

You seem to have that same esoteric ecumenist leaning and that insures heaven.

Your/our view just makes the transition and apotheosis that much easier.

Regards
DL



posted on Feb, 3 2014 @ 01:52 PM
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schuyler
You'll get there regardless. All you need is a fairly positive attitude rather than one steeped in hatred or self-pity. "Heaven's" purpose is as a relief for the depraved life you were just forced to live, where you can indulge yourself in how nice it is, meet those dead friends and relatives you choose to, and hang around for as long as you want until you get bored enough to seek the next step in your own evolutionary process. In other words, it really is a "reward" for having to put up with whatever nonsense you had to endure on earth.

It is a PERSONAL ISSUE, not one for which you need any kind of "guidance" from some group that pretends to know all about the requirements, waves some sort of bible in their hands with some scripture written by a sexually deprived psychopathic monk from 1,000 years ago, or some delusional human who tries to convince you he is on the right path and you must follow him to get there, contributions gladly accepted for the cause.

These people and these institutions who tell you that you must follow their way sap your strength. If you throw in with them, you lose the ability to think for yourself. Oh, it may make you feel good to be a part of a group that is convinced their way is the right way. the camaraderie of self-congratulation is real. But what you have done is subjugate yourself to a group of people who really have no more idea what is going on than you do and have created a delusion that they want you to partake of.

Unfortunately a whole lot of people who encounter this blithering idiocy throw out the baby with the bathwater on superficial grounds and claim the whole thing is a crock. You can't really blame them. On the surface it reads like a pre-school fairy tale designed to keep five year olds from acting out. But the best thing you can do personally is to reject these people who wave some sort of quote at you that they find magical and hew your own path. Their path may look easier on the surface, but you really don't want to go there.


"depraved life "

Who me? No way. My wife would kill me.

The problem you have not addressed is our basic tribal or groupish natures. You touched on them but did not offer another way for people to assuage that very real instinct to bond within a group. Even atheist hierarchies are promoting atheist churches because thjey are aware that people need the group. Sure, you and I will see it as insecurity but it exists nevertheless.

Regards
DL



posted on Feb, 3 2014 @ 01:53 PM
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reply to post by Greatest I am
 





I am not an atheist but Satan and Christians want atheists to embrace barbaric human sacrifice and the notion that we should profit from punishing the innocent instead of the guilty. Scapegoating IOW.


Human sacrifice? Any type of sacrifices to get a person into a residence full of killers. No thanks.

I tried to watch a show last night called "The Bible". I couldn't finish. It made no sense. About as much sense as the book. A father about to kill his son as a test? What a crappy father. So many things wrong with the whole idea. God creating 10 plagues/crappy situations in order to convince the pharoh to free the slaves? Seriously? Lot offers his daughters up to the town folk of Sodom and that's considered OK?
Apparently Jesus dies on a cross to atone for the sins of all future people's sins, and people think that gives them a free pass to keep on being a-holes.

Every time I've looked at a piece of the bible, I'm horrified. Clearly the universe does not want me reading that book.

Morality doesn't come from religion, especially from that book, and I'm making my own heaven when it's my time.



posted on Feb, 3 2014 @ 01:54 PM
link   

Greatest I am
How will you get yourself into heaven? On your own merit or via a scapegoat?

Revisit substitutionary atonement or vicarious redemption and scapegoating with me just to refresh your memory.

www.youtube.com...

I am not an atheist but Satan and Christians want atheists to embrace barbaric human sacrifice and the notion that we should profit from punishing the innocent instead of the guilty. Scapegoating IOW.

In reality, if God did demand such a barbaric sacrifice, he would be sinning as we all know that it is immoral to kill the innocent. God knows this yet Christians do not seem to. You do. Right?

Those with good morals will know that no noble and gracious God would demand the sacrifice of a son just to prove it's benevolence. When you die, Satan will ask you; how was your ticket to heaven purchased? With innocent blood?

If and when you say yes, you become his.

-----------------------------------

The other option in scriptures, a moral one, is shown here. 2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Scriptures indicate that God prefers repentance to sacrifice and as God’s will is supreme and cannot be thwarted, this will come to pass.

---------------------------------

It is a special distorted Christian view of love that sees, --- as the greatest act of love possible, --- their God condemning them, and then turning and demanding his son’s deaths and thus corrupting God's perfect justice. A bribe set by God as judge himself for himself. This is of course ridiculous.

Christians have an insane view of love, IMO.

Would you express your love for humanity or those you love by having your own child needlessly murdered?

Or if convinced that a sacrifice was somehow good, would you have the moral fortitude to step up yourself to that cross instead of sending your child?

Your cowardly God did not.

Regards
DL


Thank YOU for your garbage view. This rambling is why atheists dislike religion.

The only coward is one who blames God and Satan for their misfortunes as you do.






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