So... you disagreed with me?

Hi ladies and gentlemen...

This weekend i posted thread about a guy in Marseille (France) who was posted on Youtube torturing a cat.

I received quite a few pertinent comments and also a few comments from people who disagreed with me (as well as a couple of unsavoury snotty childish (IMO) U2Us from people who disagree with posting threads about things that THEY do not wish to see here on ATS... (even on off topic forums...)

Thread is here : www.abovetopsecret.com...

For information, the video has since been deleted.

I know very well that strictly abiding to T and Cs we are not allowed to promote threads but I thought that maybe for once the moderation staff just might let me when I explain the following :

Certain posters disagreed with the fact that the video was posted on YT and also here on ATS...

However... thanks to the DISGUST and SHOCK from thousands of people from all around the world, this guy was arrested.

The good news is that the guy went before the judge today in France and was sentenced to 1 years prison... he deserved it...

It might be a cat yesterday... tomorrow it could be one of our children / loved ones...

Thank you to those who contributed...

Deny ignorance...

Kindest respects

Rodinus

reply to post by Rodinus

And now there is a video going viral of a woman throwing puppies into a river.
Sick peoples.

reply to post by butcherguy


If i remember Butch, that one goes back to 2010 and she didn't get prosecuted because she was under age in the country where she hails from (Bosnia).

Kindest respects

Rodinus

I couldn't have watched. I understand why you might have posted it, to raise awareness as there are people who really don't believe that people could do it, but I believe it. It's all too real, and there are more people all the time who think it's ... I don't know ... acceptable ... to treat animals this way. And when they can treat animals that way, it's not that far from treating people that way.

I just don't understand why.

I really don't.

ketsuko
I couldn't have watched. I understand why you might have posted it, to raise awareness as there are people who really don't believe that people could do it, but I believe it. It's all too real, and there are more people all the time who think it's ... I don't know ... acceptable ... to treat animals this way. And when they can treat animals that way, it's not that far from treating people that way.

I just don't understand why.

I really don't.

Sadly, some of it is down to cultural differences... the rest of the time it is down to being plain downright morons...

Kindest respects

Rodinus

reply to post by Rodinus


Hi Rodinus,

I did not see your original thread so I went back and reread it. I realize this is a tricky subject and knowing your intelligence based on your previous threads posts, I'm sure you'd agree that it is worthy of discussion.

The fact this loser posted his video means he has been caught. He very well may have gotten away with it if he didn't. That said, we live in a world where it is easy for someone to post a video on someone else's channel and set them up for ruin. The vigilante justice that often times works also often times ends up ruining an innocent persons life.

The question of should I be able to watch sickening videos (make my own choice) is convoluted when the videos themselves are put in a forum where any underage bored kid can have at them. Clearly we deem violent/sexual or profane movies as a society to be something adults should have an influence in deciding if it is ok for your kids to see. Youtube has made it easy to evade these sensors (and sites like liveleak). Should there be more parental control/regulation?

I created a thread that got a lot of anger responses regarding this issue. The video I saw was something I'll never forget and it involved humans, not cats. I suppose the Russian military had video evidence of the crimes so they knew who to go after but still I wish I had not seen it, for many reasons.

I saw something I wish I had not seen

Thought provoking stuff. There is a debate to this issue and I understand in the case of your thread why you might see it one way. There are many angles at work here and I for one think it is a difficult issue with no clear cut case of "this is right to do" or not.

CJ

I guess I missed that thread but would not have watched the video. But I support your right to post any video, regardless of motives, that don't violate the rules here.

I understand your motives. and I think we call that free speech...

ColoradoJens
reply to post by Rodinus

 

Hi Rodinus,

I did not see your original thread so I went back and reread it. I realize this is a tricky subject and knowing your intelligence based on your previous threads posts, I'm sure you'd agree that it is worthy of discussion.

The fact this loser posted his video means he has been caught. He very well may have gotten away with it if he didn't. That said, we live in a world where it is easy for someone to post a video on someone else's channel and set them up for ruin. The vigilante justice that often times works also often times ends up ruining an innocent persons life.

The question of should I be able to watch sickening videos (make my own choice) is convoluted when the videos themselves are put in a forum where any underage bored kid can have at them. Clearly we deem violent/sexual or profane movies as a society to be something adults should have an influence in deciding if it is ok for your kids to see. Youtube has made it easy to evade these sensors (and sites like liveleak). Should there be more parental control/regulation?

I created a thread that got a lot of anger responses regarding this issue. The video I saw was something I'll never forget and it involved humans, not cats. I suppose the Russian military had video evidence of the crimes so they knew who to go after but still I wish I had not seen it, for many reasons.

I saw something I wish I had not seen

Thought provoking stuff. There is a debate to this issue and I understand in the case of your thread why you might see it one way. There are many angles at work here and I for one think it is a difficult issue with no clear cut case of "this is right to do" or not.

CJ

Thanks CJ.

I am sorry but I must have missed your thread, so I am going to take some time tonight and read through it.

Just to let you know, the person who posted that video was a friend of the cat abuser (I think it is fairly obvious when watching and hearing the video... (although in French) they are not unknown to each other (the guy who tortured the cat actually owned up and was over the age of 18)))...

There is clearly a debate to this issue but personaly I am glad that this video had the time to be on YT and other forums in order that the public opinion created enough buzz to get the authorities of their backsides.

Kindest respects

Rodinus

reply to post by Rodinus


Sometimes people just like to "put it out there" how badly something (in this case a video) offends them so they can make sure that the general public knows how politically correct they are. I get offended by many things, the difference being that if I don't like something that someone posts I skip it and move on. You can't please everyone Rod, if you try you'll just make yourself crazy!

Personally I figured your thread would make me really sad so I just didn't open it- simple as that!

littled16
reply to post by Rodinus

 

Sometimes people just like to "put it out there" how badly something (in this case a video) offends them so they can make sure that the general public knows how politically correct they are. I get offended by many things, the difference being that if I don't like something that someone posts I skip it and move on. You can't please everyone Rod, if you try you'll just make yourself crazy!

Personally I figured your thread would make me really sad so I just didn't open it- simple as that!

Do you agree with pornography laws? Movie ratings? Should there be open access to murder videos?

CJ

ColoradoJens

littled16
reply to post by Rodinus

 

Sometimes people just like to "put it out there" how badly something (in this case a video) offends them so they can make sure that the general public knows how politically correct they are. I get offended by many things, the difference being that if I don't like something that someone posts I skip it and move on. You can't please everyone Rod, if you try you'll just make yourself crazy!

Personally I figured your thread would make me really sad so I just didn't open it- simple as that!

Do you agree with pornography laws? Movie ratings? Should there be open access to murder videos?

CJ

I agree with restricting children from adult content if that is a parent's choice, but there is already open access to murder videos- they are all over every news broadcast nearly every single day. As far as that goes on the internet you can find literally ANY sort of video you could possibly dream up- even completely horrible illegal things. It is an individuals choice whether or not to click on "Play" or to move on to something else.

littled16
reply to post by Rodinus

 

Sometimes people just like to "put it out there" how badly something (in this case a video) offends them so they can make sure that the general public knows how politically correct they are. I get offended by many things, the difference being that if I don't like something that someone posts I skip it and move on. You can't please everyone Rod, if you try you'll just make yourself crazy!

Personally I figured your thread would make me really sad so I just didn't open it- simple as that!

Hey you... good to see you back my dear

Agreed with the fact that some people like to "put it out there" so to speak...

Just as well that the dingbat that put it out there did that no?

You know me I think, in understanding that I don't want to please everyone, but as this is a subject that particularly touches me due to my job as well I wanted to share that story.

Warmest respects

Rodinus

reply to post by Rodinus


I saw the thread but didn't click it as I didn't want to see or hear what the guy did , it amuses me that people click on a thread with a descriptive title like `Cat torturer arrested in France` , then watch the video and get upset with the poster of the thread ...like they didn't know what it contained

Glad to see he was imprisoned , over here in the UK he would probably of just got a fine and a bit of community service

ColoradoJens

littled16
reply to post by Rodinus

 

Sometimes people just like to "put it out there" how badly something (in this case a video) offends them so they can make sure that the general public knows how politically correct they are. I get offended by many things, the difference being that if I don't like something that someone posts I skip it and move on. You can't please everyone Rod, if you try you'll just make yourself crazy!

Personally I figured your thread would make me really sad so I just didn't open it- simple as that!

Do you agree with pornography laws? Movie ratings? Should there be open access to murder videos?

CJ

To answer your question (s)

I might ruffle a few feathers here but :

As far as pornography goes, this is all down to cultural differences... as long as it is between consenting ADULTS and does not concern children AT ALL! (Filters exist also on internet so that underage viewers are not affected/offended)... this is also down to how parents educate or bring up their children.

I think that if you open your eyes you will be surprised by the amount of murder videos that you can find on certain sites here on internet... YES... real gore!

Sadly we cannot get rid of all media anymore unless we decide to live a life in the middle of the forest cut off from everything that comes in from the outside world...

We see what we want to see.

Kindest respects

Rodinus

littled16

ColoradoJens

littled16
reply to post by Rodinus

 

Sometimes people just like to "put it out there" how badly something (in this case a video) offends them so they can make sure that the general public knows how politically correct they are. I get offended by many things, the difference being that if I don't like something that someone posts I skip it and move on. You can't please everyone Rod, if you try you'll just make yourself crazy!

Personally I figured your thread would make me really sad so I just didn't open it- simple as that!

Do you agree with pornography laws? Movie ratings? Should there be open access to murder videos?

CJ

I agree with restricting children from adult content if that is a parent's choice, but there is already open access to murder videos- they are all over every news broadcast nearly every single day. As far as that goes on the internet you can find literally ANY sort of video you could possibly dream up- even completely horrible illegal things. It is an individuals choice whether or not to click on "Play" or to move on to something else.

So if it's the parents choice to show porno movies on Friday night movie night with their kids, it's ok? And yes, there is open access to murder videos for all to see. News broadcasts are held to a standard that some may not agree with but they cannot broadcast certain things. Youtube and liveleak and the hundreds of video posting forums on the internet have no such laws. I suppose the easy answer is to say "no" to internet viewing for children, but if you have children today you'll know this is a near impossible task.

I think the idea of freedom of information, whatever it may be, and the consequences of that info being available to people of all ages is the big question for me. I as an adult can make a decision to watch what I want but the rationale of a seven year old is not quite so defined. I do believe there are things kids should not witness until they have developed a sense of understanding and maturity and even then, things like pornography and violence influence adult behaviors. It's an interesting argument.

CJ

ColoradoJens

littled16
reply to post by Rodinus

 

Sometimes people just like to "put it out there" how badly something (in this case a video) offends them so they can make sure that the general public knows how politically correct they are. I get offended by many things, the difference being that if I don't like something that someone posts I skip it and move on. You can't please everyone Rod, if you try you'll just make yourself crazy!

Personally I figured your thread would make me really sad so I just didn't open it- simple as that!

Do you agree with pornography laws? Movie ratings? Should there be open access to murder videos?

CJ

This is where my libertarian streak will have to come out.

We have a provision for free speech, and I am of the opinion that speech ought not be restricted except where we can tell that the basic rights of others have been violated in its making. So ... I would say that we do have the right to outlaw snuff films. Someone is murdered in their making. That violates the basic inalienable right to life, and you can go and say that people can consent to be killed for them, but I would say that it would be too hard to ensure that the participants are all indeed consenting. How do you regulate that kind of industry? Seriously?

As for the animal torture or bestiality, well, you can't actually in any real terms secure consent even if it can be argued that the animals don't have what we would recognize as inalienable rights. And cruelty in any form to anyone (or anything) is out of bounds in my opinion.

Movie ratings don't stop anyone from making the films, and they don't actually stop anyone from seeing them. Underage children can see R rated films. I know, I did it quite a few times. All you have to have is parental consent.

And pornography falls under the heading of consenting adults.

Make no mistake, personally, I find it reprehensible and I think the industry is rotten to the core, and I wish I could outlaw it, but I recognize that if I want to live in a free society, doing such is not my place and nowhere I should advocate we go. Rather, it's better for me to try to change people's attitudes about it.

Also, IMO, media is the place for the open exploration of ideas, ideas of all kinds. If we start limiting them, we lose our ability to test things in a safe medium where no one actually has to get hurt.

reply to post by ColoradoJens


It's not impossible. My own kids weren't allowed to use the internet without adult supervision until they turned 18 years old. My grandchild isn't allowed online without adult supervision either. If a 7 year old is watching porn or murder on the web that is entirely the parent's fault and nobody else's. Also growing up our parents did let us watch porn- miss the days of the old drive-in movies! Apparently it didn't turn any of us into rapists or sexual deviants but I wouldn't recommend it these days.... porn is a lot more graphic nowadays!

reply to post by Rodinus


No feathers ruffled here. I think it is worthy of discussion. I've seen enough bad things on the interwebs to know what is out there. Nothing shocks me anymore. And trust me, I am no saint. I struggle with what is appropriate and what is not, what my personal feelings are of any given subject and if I need to impose those beliefs on my own children. Is it sheltering or hindering not to allow children to know of the things that go on daily in our world? Am I a jerk if I tell my youngest Santa Claus is not real or am I doing him a favor? I don't know.

CJ

reply to post by ColoradoJens


No, it's not OK, but at what point does it become your business to parent those children? And even if you outlaw it, how do your make sure they aren't being shown porn?

Let's say you successfully stop the porn industry. What stops those parents from making homemade sex tapes and showing those on Friday?

So what step is next in your quest to stop exposing kids from things they shouldn't be exposed to and how will the rest of us who never did anything wrong have to suffer for it?

Also, IMO, media is the place for the open exploration of ideas, ideas of all kinds. If we start limiting them, we lose our ability to test things in a safe medium where no one actually has to get hurt.

To this I agree.

I've never advocated for making anything illegal. I think if you want to watch porn you should have at it. I do think there is a legitimate discussion to be had regarding the availability of porn/murder vids etc to children. I understand the slippery slope, but I'm not willing to concede yet that we as a society don't feel there is a reason for shielding kids from this stuff. I may be wrong and perhaps as Rodinus reflected, we should be exploring these "delicate" issues earlier on with our kids. Again, I don't know.

CJ