What do you guys think?

Does the fact an organisation remains secret make it bad?

The same as an organisation with bad intentions would hide from the limelight to stop people realizing what they are up to, would an organisation with good intentions also refrain from public outburst and knowledge to stop the bad guy's knowing about them?

I have heard of an organisation, supposedly for good, I can find not mention of them on the web, no written record of any of their activities or acheivements, a true secret organisation.

I am interested in your views as to all secret groups being bad, and I'll start a new thread regarding this other group.

I would venture a guess that there are at least a few secret societies in the world that people are simply oblivious to. It also has occurred to me that maybe all this NWO / Illuminati thing is simply a diversion, something made up to keep people interested, thereby keeping the focus away from what is really happening.

Are they all bad? Probably not, IMO. It's been pretty much balanced throughout history as far as good vs. evil. I would imagine that yes, there are some seriously bad folks out there who wish to do people harm. On the other side of that coin (I would hope) would be, as a direct result of an evil group or groups, good ones to try to keep the balance.

I would also go so far as to say that the societies we do know of are most generally benevolent and work to strengthen men, thereby strenghtening families, thereby strengthening communities, thereby strengthening nations. Yeah, there will always be the fruitcakes, but it seems that they are more the exception than the rule.

Most of the ones I know of (fraternities, sororities) are fairly harmless as viewed from the outside. They do charitable works and they vow to help each other throughout life when a fellow brother/sister is in need.

The "secret" part is mostly to encourage bonding between the members of the group.

I have to agree, in all most fraternal organisation, and so called secret societies, do see to be simply no threat. Those that have particular goals can be a little worrying, depending on what they are after, and those that are very opinionated regarding what is right and wrong do stress me a little as do disregard and opinion other than you own is very closed minded.

If everyone was like that we'd still be living in caves and moving around with the seasons.

And I also agree with the equal good to bad ratio, you tend to find that as soon as something new comes up, if it is regarded as bad to anyone they will normally create a group to counter act.

Would be interesting to see if there were groups around that have their goal as to counter act the so called Illuminati, and NWO etc

There aren't any group information threads on here that reference a society that does good, or should I say that is perceived as doing good. If I am wrong I wouldn't mind a link to the relevant thread. There is often people posting because they are trying to counter-act "bad publicity" regarding there particular association, but none that say what about this group, they do all these great things, etc etc.

I suspect the presence of virtually any secret society, of virtually any nature, could be endured by a population made up of intelligent, responsible people. This Illuminated class business could be kept out of power very easily if the majority of people were seriously intelligent and actively involved in maintaining control over govenment, as well as protecting the rights of the individual in a sensible fashion, including the right maintain secret contacts. Those who seem to be taking over do effectively have the people of the world way out-smarted. They understand nature to a degree most people would never allow for themselves. Understanding is power, and humans who deny their own power are basically irresponsible.

Some SS are bad, but not all of them, all of them related to the NWO in my opinion are very bad, but I don't mind ones that won't affect our lives (not many).

Secrets are not always a bad thing. Often, the secrets are important only to the membership and pose no threat to the world. In fact, those secrets do not impact the world at all.
As an example, marriage could be considered a secret society. The parents keep secrets for various reasons from their children, if only until the children are older. It does not make them evil.

A better question might be: why do people suspect evil from gruops they do not fully understand? Is it becasue they fear the unkown? Or feel excluded and decide the group is evil because they don'tor can't belong?

Slightly different topic, but would be an interesting thread to read.

See how this one goes, at the mo people in general don't seem to perceive so called "secret organisation" as a necessarily bad thing. Just a few, as always, that are not so good.

After this it would be interesting for those who see the groups as bad to say why they think this, which is where youy question would come in.

Nice idea

By definition, they are trying to hide something.

FACT IS: the Universe is one large play-pen in which TELEPATHY, CLAIR AUDIENCE and CLAIR VOYANCE transmit any and all thought across the expanse of Space.

The FACT IS: Anybody who is trying to keep ANY THOUGHT "secret" is playing a game of "hide and seek" with the rest of the Universe. WHY? Probably, because they have something to hide.

God does not hide His thoughts; He is accessible to any of us who do not hide our thoughts from Him. God is open, and everything is on the table.

Any group that doesn't put its stuff on the table is probably predatory.

Or it's made up of predatory individuals, banding together to accrus advantages somehow.

Be very SUSSSSPISHHHHOUS.

No good comes from hiding one's motives or means. I don't see any covert operations in charge of feeding or educating the Poor. Do you?

Possibly, Masons bankroll baseball teams and Boy Scout troops in their local communities, to present a nice face to their neighbors.



[edit on 25-11-2004 by Emily_Cragg]

Originally posted by Emily_Cragg
God does not hide His thoughts; He is accessible to any of us who do not hide our thoughts from Him. God is open, and everything is on the table.

That is if you believe in God. Or if you believe the bible, Torah, Koran is the word of your chosen god. I have had no god like figure explain his thought s to me, I have only scriptures to determine the ideals of any chosen faith.

Originally posted by Emily_CraggPossibly, Masons bankroll baseball teams and Boy Scout troops in their local communities, to present a nice face to their neighbors.

Do you believe this is why the mason's donate monies. They also contribute to schools for boys and schools for girls, donate to hospitals, national and international charities as well as funding for masonic charities as well. In the UK the only greater contributor to charity is the National Lottery, which to me speaks well of the particular fraternity you mention.

God is as obvious to me as the nose on my face.

I would have to work very hard and live deep in denial, to say, "I don't believe in God."

That's like not believing in gravity; or believing the earth is flat; or believing that all life in general and human life in particular, arises out of Nowhere.

If you don't "believe in God," maybe you might turn up the gain switch on your senses and then He'd smack you right across the face, eh?

"His invisible qualities are clearly seen from creation onward."

Originally posted by Emily_Cragg
I would have to work very hard and live deep in denial, to say, "I don't believe in God."

That's like not believing in gravity; or believing the earth is flat; or believing that all life in general and human life in particular, arises out of Nowhere.

The difference here is that gravity and the spherical earth are demonstrable; the existence of God is not.

Several philosophers, most notably Descartes and Aquinas, have made strong intellectual cases for the existence of God; yet, this remains a matter of faith because it cannot be proven in the same manner that we can prove that gravity exists, or that the earth is a sphere.

Good question Bondi.

Secerets are usually held for a purpose, and its usually for the bad.

If a society is good but wants to hold something back from public, then instead of keeping people in the dark they would just state that the info is unavaible and ask at a later date- cant think of a decent soceity that doe this! Please tell me of a decent society that does.

As for God. Masonic Light who do you think made gravity and the spherical earth. In actual fact God is in everything and the reason people cant find the reason for the existince, is simply that all of the researchers have gone about it the wrong way.

God is not fashionable. GOD IS.

Even as you type in what your gonna say, you have just proved that God is real!

Funny that anit it!

Laterz

Originally posted by yekway

Secerets are usually held for a purpose, and its usually for the bad.

I would have to dispute this claim. I don't think you'd be willing to share your Social Security number or home phone number with us here on this forum. Does that mean that your secrets are bad?
Of course not, it just means its none of our business.

As for God. Masonic Light who do you think made gravity and the spherical earth. In actual fact God is in everything and the reason people cant find the reason for the existince, is simply that all of the researchers have gone about it the wrong way.

I believe in God, that He has created gravity and everything else. I only intended to point out that such a thing cannot be proven, at least not by anyone but God Himself, by revealing Himself to us in an empirical manner. But just because that it cannot be proven that God exists doesn't mean that He doesn't; it just means there is no empirical or demonstrable evidence.

Even as you type in what your gonna say, you have just proved that God is real!

I have proven my belief that is God is real by affirming it. But I don't believe that my personal belief will necessarily change the mind of the atheist or agnostic. That is why the concept of faith is so important in theology; God's existence does not rest on proof, it rests upon a close search of the human heart.

Also, recall Christ's words to Thomas: "Thou hast believed because thou hast seen; blessed is he who hath not seen, yet still believes!"

Originally posted by Emily_Cragg
No good comes from hiding one's motives or means.

Maybe what you say is true, but I have to answer to a Higher Power..........

Matt.6
[1] Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.
[2] Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
[3] But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:
[4] That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.

As for my motives.....

Matt.25
[40] And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.




[edit on 11/25/2004 by tylerdjp]

so here's another way to think about whether or not secret societies are bad....
the Freemasons and many college fraternities and sororities would be deemed as secret societies, right? Yet those organisations are linked with community service and giving back to the community. So, if they give back to the community through feeding the homeless and visiting nursing homes and whatnot, they still make a positive difference "on the ground." Even if the only reason why Freemasons get together only to give themselves important titles and feel all important and sororities and frats get together so they can have some house with letter jackets they still make a positive contribution to society.
Obviously, the KKK and other such groups tend to be severe detriments to a peaceful society, and yet they felt that they were doing society a good service. I guess my point is it depends on how one frames the perameters of good and bad; on the group's motive, on the actions the group takes, whatever. each will give different logics and thus, differ on whether or not secret societies are inherently bad.
Personally, i don't think they are inherently bad; one could argue that those in favor of an american revolution were somewhat a secret society in and of themselves with the common goal of independence. I think this is really the most comorting answer; due to the psychological need to belong and feel important there will always secret societies in the form of country clubs and gangs alike. If these societies fulfill that purpose, then even if secret societies have inherent "evil" so too, through their ability to fulfill human need, do they also have some sort of inherent "good."

[edit on 26-11-2004 by azness]

What about the Omega Agency? They claim to be the good guys Supposly they keep Illuminati, Bilderberg etc... in check.

Originally posted by MKULTRAA
What about the Omega Agency? They claim to be the good guys Supposly they keep Illuminati, Bilderberg etc... in check.

I don't know about keeping the Illuminati etc in check when Bush is a member, supposedly, of the lot.

There is a research project on ATS regarding the Omega Agency if you have a particular interest in them.

I see thank you for the reference. But the whole idea of Omega is very interesting.