Breaking: NYPD: Philip Seymour Hoffman Found Dead in Manhattan

reply to post by Liquesence


don't bother arguing with this buffoon. Once he's developed a position he's forever wedded to it. It requires some degree of self awareness to change, and webedoomed (as his name implies) is quite satisfied with his pessimistic views.

Ironically, he's more optimistic about human free will here, yet, obviously, anyone who knows anything about addiction understands how neurochemistry and function is changed when you introduce an exogenous agent. For example, heroin floods the brains endogenous opiode receptors with heroin. The brain adjusts to this increased presence by increasing opiode receptors to support the presence of the chemical. In addition to this, heroin use dysregulates dopamine secretion in the brain. So in addition to increasing opiod receptors, heroin use massively increases DOPAMINE receptors - thanks to the ever vigilant astrocyte cells which regulate normal neurotransmission between neurons. Take away the reason for this neurological adaptation to heroin in the system, and you have a nightmare on your hands.

This is the simple psychopharmacological effect of heroin use. Users use because it IS PAINFUL getting off of it. Imagine for a second how painful - physiologically, emotionally and mentally - getting off that drug would be. Keeping in mind that most users have underlying psychological issues - take away the drug, and now they have an inordinate amount of dopamine receptors AND opiade receptors dysregulating them beyond their worst nightmares, you can only imagine the type of physiological storm this would elicit - and the horrifying effect this would have on the cognitive mind.

reply to post by Astrocyte


You're enabling!

Shame on you.



You know what else changes the brain? ANYTHING WE CHOOSE TO FOCUS ON AND CONTINUE.

Do I have to point to your thread about mindfulness? Srly?

I'm very capable of changing my mind.

THERE IS NO SCIENCE TO BACK UP ADDICTION BEING ANY KIND OF DISEASE WHATSOEVER.

reply to post by webedoomed


"willingly" isn't really an operative word here.
Calling them out, and kicking them to the curb, is such an enabling reaction.
Provides the perfect excuse for a continuing downward spiral.

Think of it like the brains immune response. When a foreign agent, a bad bacteria, parasite or virus, enters the body, the immune system becomes activated to kill off the disease. How does the immune system do this? By making you sick! It causes fever, rashing, nausea, headaches, etc! all for the sake of restoring homeostasis.

Same with the brain. Introducing heroin into it was a bad idea from the beginning. It is a self-medicating for people who aren't right in their emotional lives. The brain adapts - it accomodates this exogenous chemical by changing the number of specific receptors. But once the agent is gone - the brain wants to bring things back to a state of homeostasis. And it does this by causing a great deal of psychic and physiological pain.

reply to post by spacedoubt


You deny any autonamous individual the will to choose as they see fit?

You are clearly mistaken.

reply to post by webedoomed


It IS a disease. See the post above.

Anything that skews the bodies natural state of homeostasis is disease. Since hard drugs like heroin and coc aine REALLY DO # with the brains chemistry, I don't see how you can't see it as a disease.

webedoomed
reply to post by spacedoubt

 

You deny any autonamous individual the will to choose as they see fit?

You are clearly mistaken.

When did he say anything even remotely close to that?

reply to post by JohnnySasaki


""willingly" isn't really an operative word here. "

Right there. You miss it?

reply to post by Astrocyte


So you're telling me that getting a sugar high is a disease?

Falling in love is a disease?

You're telling me that jet lag is a disease?

Is physical exercise conditioning a disease?

I'm calling BS.

reply to post by Astrocyte


And btw, my comment was directed moreso to your patronizing attitude towards addicts i.e. "They are weak, and disgust me. " hence my comment that you have absolutely no emotional intelligence.

Do you not get that the context affects EVERYTHING? We live in a dysfunctional world - which you apparently adore for it's disorder. Given this is our environment, how can you expect everyone to have the awareness to push through the highly difficult and restrictive effects of heroin withdrawal? Seriously. It's hard. Not only is it hard: but ask Charlie Sheen - who had an arrogant attitude similar to your own - if he could have pushed through his malaise WITHOUT THE SUPPORT of his family.

It would have been IMPOSSIBLE. Absolutely impossible. Each of us has the power to regulate the internal system of the other. If you surround someone with doubt and depression about their situation, you will hurt them. Conversely, if you comfort and support them, you will provide them the ENERGY which they themselves lack.

It's all about rapport - something you dont seem to understand. You have to be receptive to another persons state - understand with compassion and mindfulness their difficulties, and provide them the support they need to match - mirror - your level fo resilience.

reply to post by webedoomed


Heroin is not a sugar high. These are different chemicals with different effects on the nervous system. Do you get that?

Try an experiment. Eat a lot of fun dip, for a week, and then get off it. You will feel a headache and fatigue. A bit dyregulation, no doubt.

Now do some heroin for a week straight. Ok? Now, you will get to see how painfully different these experiences are. Heroin is a 10 on the "holy # I feel like crap' scale. Sugar is much less.

Astrocyte
reply to post by Astrocyte

 

And btw, my comment was directed moreso to your patronizing attitude towards addicts i.e. "They are weak, and disgust me. " hence my comment that you have absolutely no emotional intelligence.

I have enough emotional intelligence to know that feeding into their delusions with misguided sympathy is foolish. Maybe one day you will understand this. Maybe not.

Do you not get that the context affects EVERYTHING? We live in a dysfunctional world - which you apparently adore for it's disorder. Given this is our environment, how can you expect everyone to have the awareness to push through the highly difficult and restrictive effects of heroin withdrawal? Seriously. It's hard. Not only is it hard: but ask Charlie Sheen - who had an arrogant attitude similar to your own - if he could have pushed through his malaise WITHOUT THE SUPPORT of his family.

I fully understand: without context, we are utterly lost. I don't adore this dysfunctional world, though our perception of correct order is not one and the same. I don't expect everyone to have such a high degree of awareness. The ones who don't are weak. It's the objective truth. As has already been stated, they die out dysproportionately. I'll tell you what is quite clear. The statistics back up my reasoning. Most people choose to be an addict, and willingly give it up once they reason it through on their own. No brainwashing AA cultic nonsense helps out the bulk of people. AA has horrible stats to back it up. People are better off treating nutritional deficiencies than going to AA. Ask Dr Abram Hoffer, he treated tens of thousands for decades. I'd say ask the co-creator of AA (Bill Wilson, but he's dead)who supported Dr Hoffers nutritional therapy, and ended up being blasted by the organization for saying it was the best approach.

It would have been IMPOSSIBLE. Absolutely impossible. Each of us has the power to regulate the internal system of the other. If you surround someone with doubt and depression about their situation, you will hurt them. Conversely, if you comfort and support them, you will provide them the ENERGY which they themselves lack.

This is exactly what the language that they're unable to help their selves does. Telling them that they are helpless to help their selves is the worst thing you can do. It's shaping their minds to be slaves. Telling them that they're an addict to drugs, and will always be so is 100% unscientific. It implants a false notion in an already weak soul. I'm sure you're well aware of the placebo AND nocebo affect. This is horrible terminology to be using for an addict.

It's all about rapport - something you dont seem to understand. You have to be receptive to another persons state - understand with compassion and mindfulness their difficulties, and provide them the support they need to match - mirror - your level fo resilience.

I've helped many people in my life, and have no need for you to accept this for it to remain the truth.

Heroine and Cocaine less Addictive than OREOS

Whatch out! That guy is addicted to OREOS!! He has a DISEASE!! He's a danger to himself, his family, and his community!!!

Wrong again, Astrocyte.

You have no clue what kind of trauma I've experienced, or what kind of potential addictions I've overcome through my years.

It's all a matter of choice.

The Rational Choices of Crack Addicts

reply to post by webedoomed

The ones who don't are weak. It's the objective truth

Most psychologists who read what you write would be tempted to think you have some personality disorder.

One second, you complain about human negligence about the environment, the next second you say "you adore this dysfunctional world". Do you get that human dysfunction feeds into apathy about the environment? Which would you prefer? I guess you're username says it all.

Seriously. You are obviously dealing with very serious narcissistic tendencies - and this is textbook for someone who studies this - I've done a bit of research in this area myself. Talking with you is showing me just how apt psychological diagnostic categories for this disorder are. You hold contradictive views: one second you regard yourself as emotionally intelligent - even though you're ideas obviously don't resonate with other people, obviously do not serve to connect you with other people - so where exactly is the emotional intelligence? Can you acknowledge this? No. You debate it, and like typical narcissistic behaviour: you're right, everyone else is wrong!

And in defending yourself, you cite social darwinism, of all things. Seriously man - you think this is how you make friends? Do you get that very few people in the social sciences, anthropology, psychology, etc, hold to that obnoxious, counter-productive view? Whats proving more valuable - particularly to the ordering of human society - since humans are far more complex than your "survival of the fittest" theories suggest, is survival of the MOST COOPERATIVE. This is the area of Darwins theory - which he emphasized more in his later life, which he thought deserved more investigation. And indeed, social scientists understand that if human beings are to thrive, grow, and mature as a species, we need to develop better relationships with one another: i.e. kindness, love, sympathy, empathy.

I don't know what happened in your life to predispose your attention so far away from these experiences - or why you have this disturbed attraction to disorder, but emotions like love, empathy, kindness, arent "icky" - they are the transcendent source of what makes us different from other species: other species can't reflect on their experiences, can't become aware of their awareness: they cant CHOOSE HOW TO EVOLVE! Whereas we, my friend, can.

Astrocyte
reply to post by webedoomed

 

Most psychologists who read what you write would be tempted to think you have some personality disorder.

I'm not so arrogant to think I know how most of their minds operate; however I do know that by their ethical standards, they must keep a professional and healthy state of emotional attachment. They must be above the persons emotional state, ie not give out sympathy, while empathizing with what got them where they are. That requires high empathy.

One second, you complain about human negligence about the environment, the next second you say "you adore this dysfunctional world". Do you get that human dysfunction feeds into apathy about the environment? Which would you prefer? I guess you're username says it all.

I'm going to ask that you don't continue to put words in my mouth. I have said the EXACT OPPOSITE of what you quote. You have completely misquoted me. I said that I DO NOT adore this dysfunctional world, in response to you FALSELY claiming I do. Quit trying to act like you have a clue who I am. You don't.

Furthermore, you COMPLETELY fail to understand the purpose of this persona. I won't bother wasting the time trying to explain it on you. Apparently, it's beyond you.

Seriously. You are obviously dealing with very serious narcissistic tendencies - and this is textbook for someone who studies this - I've done a bit of research in this area myself. Talking with you is showing me just how apt psychological diagnostic categories for this disorder are. You hold contradictive views: one second you regard yourself as emotionally intelligent - even though you're ideas obviously don't resonate with other people, obviously do not serve to connect you with other people - so where exactly is the emotional intelligence? Can you acknowledge this? No. You debate it, and like typical narcissistic behaviour: you're right, everyone else is wrong!

You don't know what emotional intelligence is. There's a huge difference from having textbook knowledge, and understanding it. It would be very easy to say that you have narcissistic tendencies. You are unable to empathize with people who don't hold your views. You find the need to make false assumptions about their character, repeatedly. Please, quit while you're behind.

And in defending yourself, you cite social darwinism, of all things. Seriously man - you think this is how you make friends? Do you get that very few people in the social sciences, anthropology, psychology, etc, hold to that obnoxious, counter-productive view? Whats proving more valuable - particularly to the ordering of human society - since humans are far more complex than your "survival of the fittest" theories suggest, is survival of the MOST COOPERATIVE. This is the area of Darwins theory - which he emphasized more in his later life, which he thought deserved more investigation. And indeed, social scientists understand that if human beings are to thrive, grow, and mature as a species, we need to develop better relationships with one another: i.e. kindness, love, sympathy, empathy.

That you take such a shallow view to my words shows you have so little cognitive empathy. Why are yu talking about darwin, or social cooperation? Do you truly have this image of me in your mind that I'm incapable of social coooperating, or don't see the point of it? Serioulsy, WTH makes you think this? I absolutely know how to socially cooperate. I can't believe you get anything remotely close to this kind of image in your head from what I write. Why?? You make an INCREDIBLE amount of assumptions in your posts. WHY??

I don't know what happened in your life to predispose your attention so far away from these experiences - or why you have this disturbed attraction to disorder, but emotions like love, empathy, kindness, arent "icky" - they are the transcendent source of what makes us different from other species: other species can't reflect on their experiences, can't become aware of their awareness: they cant CHOOSE HOW TO EVOLVE! Whereas we, my friend, can.

You continue to falsely assume who I am, what I've been through, and how I interact with people. There is absolutely nothig wrong with love, empathy, or kindness. There is absolutely something unprofessional, and ignorant about giving hard drug addicts unreasonable sympathy.

Do you think I write what I did in this thread for the reactions, or for the debate? Do you not see that I care? Seriously??

You ask any psychoanalyst if they are able to give sympathy for their patients. They will tell you it's unprofessional. Giving sympathy requires you to take on their emotional energy, it drags you down to their level. How are you going to lead someone out of their delusions when you're stuck in the same emotional rut as them?

What you need is EMPATHY to understand WHY they hold so many delusions/incorrect thinking processes. Don't confuse the two. I said that I have no SYMPATHY for hard drug addicts. They destroy their selves, and screw up their families, and communities. I empathize with drug addicts, in order to bring them out of their slumber. You have to lead them out, not have a sympathy/pity party.

From here, you go about making wild assumptions, like that I'm saying addicts don't need their families or any kind of support outside their selves?! You ENTIRELY missed what I was saying. The terminology that is often held within these group supports is ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS. I never mentioned NOT getting any kind of support outside yourself. I was trying to explain that the first choice ultimately ALWAYS comes from within yourself, and you have to grow that seed of self-respect, and self-confidence.. you have to grow that root of willpower, focus, and shape it into an impenetrable force. You give the power to the patient through whatever kind of support. The support simply guides someone to making their own healthy decisions.

Quit twisting my words, and please give a reply in this thread apologizing for incorrectly quoting me. This isn't the first time you've done this. It seems you have a need to twist what I say. I take it this is unconscious, and partially a result of your ongoing trauma.

Latly, I say what I do because I'm PASSIONATE and CARE about this topic. Not being I'm a narcissist who is looking to get a rise out of people. Do I challenge people's beliefs, and piss people off? Yes. Is this necessary? I think so. You may not understand this. It may not fit into your particular model of how to be "healthy". That's fine.

Addiction is NOT a Disease

reply to post by webedoomed


I tried to stay out of this thread. I can't. Addiction is not a disease. Addiction is a choice. A poor choice at that. It became a disease in the 70's when big pharma lobbied for it and for profit re-habs sprung up all across America like weeds in a garden. Who owns those re-habs? Big Pharma & Big Insurance. We dont decide at 19 or 20 to go get me some cancer, but we do decide to do the drugs we all have been educated not to do. A choice. Getting yourself addicted to a substance then claiming it's a disease is the biggest cop-out of an arguement there ever was. Cancer is a disease, diabete's is a disease, hiv is a disease, polio is a disease. No one chooses to go out and become afflicted with any of the examples I gave. But we do choose to do drugs. Phillip Seymor Hoffman killed himself because he was addcited to drugs, he did'nt die of a diesease, he died because he was a drug user, tired of hearing all the"he was great, he was such an actor, he was exactly what? When you realise the man was getting himself cranked on his drugs then taking care of his children, makes you wonder just how wonderful a dad he really was. When he was found dead with a needle in his arm, he was supposed to be picking his kids up. Yea, he's the dad of the year. " Herion: Kills rock stars dead...actors too. I have zero sympathy for the man, but my heart goes out to his children.

reply to post by Liquesence


I don't feel sorry for him at all. I"m also sick of seeing posts about him all over the internet. Nobody cares when Joe Blow dies of a heroin overdoes but my god let a celebrity with the means and money to get help die and everyone mourns and feels so sorry for them. Yea not me.

You know who I feel sorry for, his kids and the ones who don't have the money or means to get help and want it. It is a lot harder to get help when you don't have money to get it. Oh and don't say they have free treatment centers for that because most places don't and those places are a joke. I helped a guy go through rehab twice and it was a complete joke the place he was in that was suppose to "help" him. Instead he got addicted to methadone and found more drugs there than he did outside.


Drug addiction is bad no matter who you are. He had 50 bags of heroin! FIFTY! Was he dealing? Who knows. He clearly didn't care about his family or himself. He had all the means to get help and didn't. If any normal person were to have such an addiction they'd lose everything including their job, home and probably their family. It has happened to many people out there yet with a celebrity everyone just feels sorry for them because they were an actor/actress.

Drugs are bad...

reply to post by mblahnikluver


Your last paragraph is very consise and to the point. And the fact there's so much truth in it screams to be read. The poor are just addicts, the rich have a disease...it;s called money and fame. The man was found with the damn needle stilll in his arm....getting ready to go pick his kids up . He may have died a famous actor in some minds. In my mind he died a crappy asre parent who each and everytime his kids were with him their lives were held in the hands of a herion addict. What the hell would all on here be saying if one of those kids found dad's stash and OD on dad's drugs. A good actor....a much better liar.

I heard on the radio last night that his wife had asked him to leave the family about a month ago.... because she didn't want the drugs around the kids.

reply to post by butcherguy


But yet she still let him have the kids un-supervised. Knowing he has a drug problem and yet letting him have access to little ones. My vote for mom of the year. Thank goodness his kids are'nt the ones that found dad dead in the bathroom fueling his disease.

reply to post by mblahnikluver


I feel bad for anyone who wastes their life away on hard drugs - famous or not. We're talking about him because he's famous and most of us have enjoyed his work. If I heard that a famous painter or sculptor died of the same thing whose work I enjoyed, I would feel the same. If I had a friend whose company I enjoyed, I would feel the same. I'm not talking about some Joe Blow, because I don't know Joe Blow. If I did, I would feel bad for him too.

I don't know if addiction is a disease. I do believe that some people have either something in the hard-wiring of their brain that makes them much more susceptible to addictive behaviors, or they suffer from something similar to obsessive-compulsive disorders, where they have compulsions that are hard to control. I know people with addictive personalities, and I have seen them really struggle with overcoming their addictions. I'm talking about decent people - smart people, not lazy scumbags who intentionally make bad choices. And I am talking about addictions other than hard drugs. I knew a girl that suffered from anorexia - she was addicted to dieting and calorie restricting - so much so, that she nearly died from it. Did I feel sympathy for her? Hell yes. She didn't want to have that compulsive behavior, but kept sliding back into it, especially during times of personal stress.

So yes, I feel sympathy for Philip Seymour Hoffman. I'm sure he didn't want his life to end up this way, but he slid back into it.