What is the Universe made of? Math says scientist

reply to post by Phage


"Darkness is not something. There is no speed of dark."

Every wondered why wolves howl at the full moon?

Because light favors the prey.

reply to post by lostbook


Scientists will say anything to keep and justify their budgets and salaries.

I hate the phrase "scientists say". It means very little without names to accept responsbility for often outlandish or non provable claims.

reply to post by Visitor2012


Saying "Nothing is real" is a contradiction.

Nobody can possibly believe that there is no reality.

Done with that absurdness.

intrptr
reply to post by Visitor2012

 

Saying "Nothing is real" is a contradiction.

Nobody can possibly believe that there is no reality.

Done with that absurdness.

I never said "nothing is real". I said concepts aren't real thus why they are called concepts.

Concept definition (per Google dictionary) : " an abstract idea, a general notion, a mental picture of a group or class of objects formed by combining all their aspects."

Matter is a concept. Physics is a concept. Atoms are concepts, theories, ideas. The "god" particle is a concept, a formula on a piece of paper. They don't actually exist in reality.

For instance, you will never find a cloud in reality. For what appears to be a cloud, is just a massive gathering of water molecules, condensed water vapor. A cloud does not exist in it's constituent parts. It's only a named form. So to with matter.

Phage
reply to post by lostbook

It doesn't sound crazy. It sounds like complete nonsense.
It is but it isn't. It's something but it's nothing.

I'll take Tegmark 's view rather than try to make sense out of your version.

edit on 2/2/2014 by Phage because: (no reason given)

I don't expect to be understood on this one.

reply to post by lostbook


Why couldn't it be possible, Phage? We only know 10% of reality.

reply to post by lostbook


Math is only symbols of physicality. Just as language, words, are symbols of physicality. Reality is physicality. If we create symbols that equal realities physicality, and we call those symbols math, then yes math equals reality. Reality is math then, albeit a physically non symbolic version. The real 3d version.

lostbook
reply to post by lostbook

 

Why couldn't it be possible, Phage? We only know 10% of reality.

Why couldn't what be possible?

lostbook
reply to post by lostbook

 

Why couldn't it be possible, Phage? We only know 10% of reality.

10 percent of reality? Nonsense

Math is simply a way of quantifying the properties of the universe. It's an explanation and not the cause.

Phage
reply to post by lostbook

 

Why couldn't what be possible?

Why couldn't it be possible that there could be existence and non-existence at the same time for example? Just because it doesn't fit into current models of understanding doesn't mean that it isn't possible.

I've been reading into ZERO-POINT Energy and I'm excited at its potential in explaining the Universe. Maybe, in time, it may lend itself to support my idea/theory.

its prolly more complex than that, the vedas say the universe is made up of vibrations not math

reply to post by lostbook

Why couldn't it be possible that there could be existence and non-existence at the same time for example?

Who cares about what doesn't exist? Well actually, my daughter used to care about unicorns but she got over it.

I've been reading into ZERO-POINT Energy and I'm excited at its potential in explaining the Universe.

You've been reading the wrong stuff. "Zero-point energy" doesn't explain the universe anymore than gravity does. It's just one aspect of the Universe.

Phage
reply to post by lostbook

 

Why couldn't it be possible that there could be existence and non-existence at the same time for example?

Who cares about what doesn't exist? Well actually, my daughter used to care about unicorns but she got over it.

I've been reading into ZERO-POINT Energy and I'm excited at its potential in explaining the Universe.

You've been reading the wrong stuff. "Zero-point energy" doesn't explain the universe anymore than gravity does. It's just one aspect of the Universe.

edit on 2/2/2014 by Phage because: (no reason given)

Well Phage,

Thank you for your input. However, I have to say that I believe Space is a "Something." There is an energy of non-existence that I believe hasn't been discovered yet. Maybe Zero-Point isn't the key; maybe it is, Idk. One thing I do know is that man doesn't know everything and the sooner humans admit that, the sooner we can make real progress.

aren't number complex? they say that complexity creates life- is the universe alive?

reply to post by lostbook

One thing I do know is that man doesn't know everything and the sooner humans admit that, the sooner we can make real progress.

Can you provide a single example of an astrophysicist who claims that we know everything there is to know about the Universe?
If you don't think we aren't making real progress you've definitely been reading the wrong sources. That's a problem. When you take sources who don't understand the actual physics ("zero-point" being a good example) you end up with a lot of claims that don't follow from what math actually shows.

The sexagesimal mathematical system, the system used to tell time or the degrees of a circle, is based off how much a Babylonian could count to using his fingers. It is likely that the decimal system and arabic numerals is also based on how many fingers we have. So does using this system tell more about the universe or more about the human hand and the way we think?

Phage
reply to post by lostbook

 

Who cares about what doesn't exist?

Well, its about determining things that we just currently perceive to be "non-existent."

Thats what science does, the principles that are known today were non-existent in human cultures in the past. They were perceived as "nothing."

It might just be that we perceive as "nothing" is actually "something." Our construct of "nothing," like math, might just be representative of something that we have yet to explore. Just like math, an important question is "What does the human construct of nothing actually represent?"

We may never get an answer, and we might even have it "right" in that our concept of nothing is entirely accurate.

Either way, as science moves on, we make something out of what used to be non-existent in human culture. I think that is rather neat, in its way.

reply to post by lostbook


your 'math' as a model for this physical universe falls far short of encompassing the Grand Unified Theory...

'Math' must include all the school of 'Math', like Trig ,Calculus, Algebra, Geometry etc etc etc
then throw in Consciousness, Probability, Chance, Chaos and all the primordial qualities of the other 9-or-10 other likely dimensions that co-exist along-side this observable universe.


As Above So Below.... your observations of reality and of mind are a type of puzzle code about how this universe exists


perhaps the Math model is a peek into the mind-of-God....but it is far from being the matrix which is the Mind-of-God AKA: 'creation process'... which does require the existence of the 'dark-side' = Destruction




Aphorism:

The sexagesimal mathematical system, the system used to tell time or the degrees of a circle, is based off how much a Babylonian could count to using his fingers. It is likely that the decimal system and arabic numerals is also based on how many fingers we have. So does using this system tell more about the universe or more about the human hand and the way we think?

very correct... WE use the math Base-10 for counting for example but WE use the math base-12 for daily time keeping
there are almost any number of 'bases' On-Off' is the first 'base'... to calculating the Number-of-the-Beast will be infinite unless there are Qualifiers which limit the sprectrum of calculations to actually reveal the Name of the Beast.... we are then falling into the realm of sophestry & just 'vibrating' in place- going nowhere as it were

Aphorism
The sexagesimal mathematical system, the system used to tell time or the degrees of a circle, is based off how much a Babylonian could count to using his fingers. It is likely that the decimal system and arabic numerals is also based on how many fingers we have. So does using this system tell more about the universe or more about the human hand and the way we think?

The structure of quantity (math in and of itself, seperate from physics and the universe) is self consistent, tautological. This abstract system of balance, of comparison, of measurement ( as inches on a ruler are a self consistent measurement, 12 of which equal a foot, but there is no such thing in the physical natural universe called an inch, though because distance is real, the inch can be used to compare things), can be used to compare the different aspects of nature with itself. On the macro scale this is easy, our solar system consists of 1 star. I can go to an apple tree and count the apples and if there are 15 apples on hte tree there are not 13 or 12 there are 15. Look at the table of elements, it is quantity based, and of course different arrangements of quantities and quantities of quantities results in different qualities. Math having to do with the law, is a necessary attempt at describing and measuring differences between scenarios, for example an apple resting on a hill and the difference of an apple flying through the air at 1 inch per second, and the difference still of an apple flying through the air at 12 inches per second. The distance is real, the cause of an object flying through the air a greater distance in the same amount of time, is a real variable that exists and has reason for existing, energy or force, cause and affect.

So I know I got away from what you were supposing or proposing. My view is that a default of reality existing, is that reality is a finite quantity. A default of reality seeming to not be one total homogenous unchanging substance, is that reality has parts or quantities or quanta. All of these details (just like we can use that abstract measuring system to count apples, or compare 1 inch to 12) can be symbolized in the measurement system of math, albeit an ever increasing complex system, being as reality is not pure abstract self contained numerals of infinite quantity, but finite in quantity (infinite in time, sequencing) and existent in 3d geometry, and an exact law of physicality which commands the entire system.

I personally am of the thought that the laws that command the universe are not eternal, but that something has always existed, something always will, and that something is always changing, the universe is the current organization of the something, and it behaves according to the laws that force it to be what it currently is, but the laws the command the something that exists now may have been different many organizations ago, and may be different many organizations later. But that is something to think about, of course there is an absolute potential beyond the immediate moment, that dictates without dictation the totality of potential things that are able to occur and that is sort of an incomplete infinity of the totality of histories history, so that may be the ultimate law (an example of that idea of potential can be expressed when I state the confidant fact that quintillionbagillionmagillion light years ago potential existed that you would exist, and the same could be said for me...this is not to claim determinism at all, merely that the potential as limitless as it is, does have an upper bound of limitation, as all things must).