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the real amerika

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posted on Feb, 2 2014 @ 12:09 PM
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FyreByrd

Hoosierdaddy71
reply to post by Another_Nut
 


Do you think I never had a low paying job? I started at minimum wage just like everyone else. My first full time job was $6hr.
Does that sound like I was living in luxury? Don't tell me i don't know what it's like to scrape by week to week because I surely do. My wife worked at a fabric store for a long time and she was not being overpaid. She got a job as a bank teller and has worked her way up to manager. She knows that it's not easy. I can tell you from experience that hard work and making good choices in your life do pay off in the long run.


Honey, I hate to tell you this, but it's not all about you.

Your hard work paid off. Good for you. As others have said many don't have the talent, or temperment, or freedom to risk it all for a dream. Many more do and fail.

You may be very skilled but you were also lucky. And I do hope it pays off for you in the long run.



I agree, it's not all about me. But it's not all about him either. If you only want to hear the bad things your not getting the whole picture. I've been in his position and have overcome it. Should we tell him to give up and have no hope? I can't do that. I'm trying to give him hope and motivation not pity.




posted on Feb, 2 2014 @ 12:10 PM
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reply to post by vkey08
 


I figured that. Still an interesting concept.

It does not change the fact that we are a commodity.



posted on Feb, 2 2014 @ 12:17 PM
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reply to post by Nephalim
 


Actually I work for the United States Government. I investigate and assist in the prosecution of people who have violated others civil rights as defined by our Constitution. I do not adhere to the "party line" on most things which is why I was sent off to the bureaucratic nightmare that I am stuck in until April.

And no you did not upset me, I am just sick of the Sovvie Cit nonsense being used as an excuse to say "taxes = communism" I am no fan of property taxes but I understand the need for them, for example, my children are disabled and require special services, the town provides those services in school, if I had to pay out of pocket for them we would be dead right now from lack of food, shelter and heat. Our town taxes go to help offset that cost so my out of pocket expenses aren't as great as they would have been otherwise.

But taxes in themselves, especially taxes that provide essential services are not communistic in nature, they are SOCIALISTIC and that is a distinction that NEEDS to be made, in a Communist system you wouldn't pay property taxes but the State would still provide those services as they would be the ones owning everything as it were.

So no I do not agree with the taxation system in this country, I think it could use some overhauling, but I do understand it and realize where it comes from... That is the difference between living in a true democracy (which the United States never was) and a Representative Republic which is what our system is in fact. If you have a better way than a mix of Socialism/Democracy to make sure that you are well taken care of by all means let me hear it...

So far no-one has come up with a better way that works...



posted on Feb, 2 2014 @ 12:19 PM
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jrod
reply to post by vkey08
 


I figured that. Still an interesting concept.

It does not change the fact that we are a commodity.


really you are a commodity? If you were truly a commodity, then you would be so well cared for it wouldn't be funny as they wouldn't want their precious lifeblood to be ill or sick or disabled in any way.. Think about that REALLY hard for a second..

We would be the healthiest, most well fed and happy things ever if we were truly their commodities...

We aren't....



posted on Feb, 2 2014 @ 12:21 PM
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Catacomb

Hoosierdaddy71

Another_Nut
reply to post by Hoosierdaddy71
 


O i am trying but when you are poor its not easy

So i tell you what Mr moneybags

You send me the 5k i need for passports and plane tickets

And ill send you a pic from my new place

See when you are working to just make ends meet there is no discretionary spending money to do as you say

And i have been trying. Trust me
edit on pm220142807America/ChicagoSat, 01 Feb 2014 19:36:02 -0600_2u by Another_Nut because: (no reason given)



You tell me I'm wrong and ask for a handout,,,, to funny.

Ten years ago I risked everything I had to start a business. I busted my butt and it paid off. I never said it was easy or guaranteed. Sorry for your situation but I don't see how any other economic system would change that situation. Again I say, show me a better system.


Well, you come to the real heart of the matter, didn't you. Most of the people complaining do not know what real hard work is, and are unwilling to work 2 or 3 jobs to save their money, and start a business. They don't know what real hard work is, and don't even try to educate themselves, and improve their lot. They just want something to whine about, and call anyone who calls them out, "Mr. Moneybags", or "Richie Rich".

They are just sad, jealous people, who don't want to put any effort into changing their own lives. They want everyone else to change theirs, so they don't have to do the work.



I would never say that somebody doesn't work hard. You can work hard scrubbing dishes but there isn't much future in dish washing. People can only improve their skill set and look foreword.
Does a doctor work harder than a waitress? Yeah some do, we have all had a lazy waitress. But most work hard. The doctor just has a better skill set and is paid better because of it. Pro athletes are the same way, slam dunk a basketball from the foul line and your worth a few million. That's a skill that few have so they earn more money. They don't Necessarily work harder than anybody else.



posted on Feb, 2 2014 @ 12:32 PM
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vkey08
reply to post by jrod
 


That stock market crap is just more Sovvie nonsense, it has zero basis in real fact... sorry.....


lol again, if you work (providing a service) you are like the sheep who gets sheered by the shepard and he reaps the benefit of your services.

Let me give an example, if youre a police officer. (Notice I do not criticize police or public "servants") too often, society is using you as a part of its safety net. You are being "farmed" for security services at the risk of your own life. Society chooses you by developing a justice code and capitalizes on your moral and virtuous personal senses of right and wrong. See the language used.

In the same way you "farm" others by providing that net. They pay you to protect them. You pay them back with that protection. Eh? Safety net. Catch the "criminals" now enterprising individuals use humans a resource in a way that you and I do not condone. You simply enforce the "law." Which is also a product of farming by swaying the public opinion. Its very similar to human trafficking, they use you as their source of "criminals" to put in their "farm." They use the "law" to justify that "field of sheep to sheer" and then use us to pay for that. Again, the loop.

Humans as resources. This is prevalent in all societies with working governments, now, is government the source of this human capitalisation? The Human resource. Or is it the system Government and societies use to justify "order by control."

I dont know.
You guys tell me. Why is your life worth more or less than mine and dependant on public scrutiny if we're all subjects and serf to the same wheels and systems? hehe its all insane I tell you.



posted on Feb, 2 2014 @ 12:36 PM
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reply to post by Nephalim
 


You are missing the point of everything and it's scary.

Working is part of how we get money to get things, and pay for things and the like, even in old tribal societies people had different jobs to do, if everyone just sat around and did nothing, everyone would starve to death or some equally horrid disaster would happen.

So why is working a bad thing again? There has always been a hierarchical system in place, it doesn't mean you are worth less, just that you do a different job..



posted on Feb, 2 2014 @ 12:54 PM
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vkey08
reply to post by Nephalim
 


You are missing the point of everything and it's scary.

Working is part of how we get money to get things, and pay for things and the like, even in old tribal societies people had different jobs to do, if everyone just sat around and did nothing, everyone would starve to death or some equally horrid disaster would happen.

So why is working a bad thing again? There has always been a hierarchical system in place, it doesn't mean you are worth less, just that you do a different job..


LOL I didnt say any of it is bad. Dont be scared. Im evaluating the human condition by exchanging information (views and perspectives) with another human.
Nothing more, K? Not suggesting anything.

Which one of these cows has undesirable colors or patterns?
media.premiumtimesng.com...
This is a picture of livestock.
www.newscientist.com...
and another for comparison.



posted on Feb, 2 2014 @ 01:07 PM
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reply to post by vkey08
 


We are a commodity. In our life we are expected to pay a significant amount to the government in the form of taxes. To say we are not a commodity is missing the big picture.

Saying property taxes are communist isn't quite right, I was wrong to use the word communist, maybe fascist is a better word. However I think when property taxes are so high that they are more than half of the rent value of the property there is a problem. I do not have a solution to this. Why does a piece of land in the US have a $10,000 a year tax, when the same size land in the Bahamas is only $100?

Some taxes are needed, I understand this. Most of the paychecks I've collected have come from some sort of government job. Without those taxes I would not have had an opportunity at those jobs. We all want fair taxes. I personally think the most fair tax out there is the sales tax.

My biggest gripe is giving tax money to an entity that has proven over and over again that they are inept when it comes to being financially responsible. I am all for welfare for the poor who need it, and I am against corporate welfare for billion dollar corporations who do not need it.



posted on Feb, 2 2014 @ 01:18 PM
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reply to post by jrod
 


You know what it is, when we talk about taxes we may be causing worry in someones social safety net. Certainly not intentional because society is attached and dependent on it. I can see why she referred to my comments as "scary." It is a foundation for some, if not all people across the world.

That scares me even more though respectfully. The foundations we are dependent on. Not so much Government, hell you and I are government, she is government, everyone is government to some degree. Its the systems we all flock to for stability. O.o Strange no? The thought that if we do not tax eachother, we will not have this or that? If we do not participate in this or that we are out of order. Not in line. Note the cattle question; there is no right or wrong answer, simply a choice to make. Scary indeed.

And money, well, we have currency and weights and measures on ats, see the stars. O.o Are our stars taxed? hehe



posted on Feb, 2 2014 @ 03:19 PM
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reply to post by vkey08
 


Ma'am,
first of all, I have to say that I've read many of your posts, and heretofore you have intimidated the hell out of me.

But then I saw this:

If you have a better way than a mix of Socialism/Democracy to make sure that you are well taken care of by all means let me hear it...

So far no-one has come up with a better way that works...


And, you know what???? I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU!

Thanks for your insights.
Just wanted to say that. Too many people accuse ANYONE who is working toward progress and a balance a "commie."
It's so disheartening, demoralizing, and dismaying to read how many people think "Progressive" means "Pinko."


That is all.



posted on Feb, 2 2014 @ 03:42 PM
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wildtimes
reply to post by vkey08
 


Ma'am,
first of all, I have to say that I've read many of your posts, and heretofore you have intimidated the hell out of me.

But then I saw this:

If you have a better way than a mix of Socialism/Democracy to make sure that you are well taken care of by all means let me hear it...

So far no-one has come up with a better way that works...


And, you know what???? I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOU!

Thanks for your insights.
Just wanted to say that. Too many people accuse ANYONE who is working toward progress and a balance a "commie."
It's so disheartening, demoralizing, and dismaying to read how many people think "Progressive" means "Pinko."


That is all.


What is funny is I agree 100% about the taxation system being out of whack, and everyone keeps ignoring that part. Yes it pays my salary and the salary of the job I'm going to in Alaska, but I'd be happy if sales tax or something else paid it rather than raking people over the coals with property tax, however, Fascist and Communist both aren't right (Responding to the person above you for a sec here) it's Socialist... and every system no matter what it has ever been over time, has some element of socialism in it from the Native Americans to our current Republican systems (and I'm not talking about the Republican Party)

Communism with a free and independent press, transparency AND rotating leadership COULD potentially work, but the rights of the people would have to be proportionally represented. And that would be where the issue would be, representing our rights...



posted on Feb, 2 2014 @ 03:46 PM
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reply to post by vkey08
 



What is funny is I agree 100% about the taxation system being out of whack, and everyone keeps ignoring that part.

Again, me, too.

No need to go into details; the obvious current situation is, well, obvious. One can't bleed a turnip. The taxpayers get shafted coming and going, so that the corporatists can please their "shareholders." GHA.



posted on Feb, 2 2014 @ 04:01 PM
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reply to post by wildtimes
 


Interesting you write that. The Business Insider has an interesting article from November 2013:
Investment Manager Explains Why 99.5% Of Americans Can Never Win


"In my view, the American dream of striking it rich is merely a well-marketed fantasy that keeps the bottom 99.5% hoping for better and prevents social and political instability," the manager wrote in an email to Professor G. William Domhoff of the University of California at Santa Cruz.
The manager, who asked to remain anonymous to protect his relationship with wealthy clients, expresses his frustration with a financial system that is rigged to help the elites at the cost of everyone else.



Unlike those in the lower half of the top 1%, those in the top half and, particularly, top 0.1%, can often borrow for almost nothing, keep profits and production overseas, hold personal assets in tax havens, ride out down markets and economies, and influence legislation in the U.S. They have access to the very best in accounting firms, tax and other attorneys, numerous consultants, private wealth managers, a network of other wealthy and powerful friends, lucrative business opportunities, and many other benefits. Most of those in the bottom half of the top 1% lack power and global flexibility and are essentially well-compensated workhorses for the top 0.5%, just like the bottom 99%.



The higher we go up into the top 0.5% the more likely it is that their wealth is in some way tied to the investment industry and borrowed money than from personally selling goods or services or labor as do most in the bottom 99.5%. They are much more likely to have built their net worth from stock options and capital gains in stocks and real estate and private business sales, not from income which is taxed at a much higher rate. These opportunities are largely unavailable to the bottom 99.5%.


The rags to riches story in America is merely a fantasy. Even those who are in the 99-99.5% income are not in the elite class.



edit on 2-2-2014 by jrod because:




posted on Feb, 2 2014 @ 04:12 PM
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vkey08
What is funny is I agree 100% about the taxation system being out of whack, and everyone keeps ignoring that part. Yes it pays my salary and the salary of the job I'm going to in Alaska, but I'd be happy if sales tax or something else paid it rather than raking people over the coals with property tax, however, Fascist and Communist both aren't right (Responding to the person above you for a sec here) it's Socialist... and every system no matter what it has ever been over time, has some element of socialism in it from the Native Americans to our current Republican systems (and I'm not talking about the Republican Party)

Communism with a free and independent press, transparency AND rotating leadership COULD potentially work, but the rights of the people would have to be proportionally represented. And that would be where the issue would be, representing our rights...



I consider the US to be a corporate oligarchy.

Almost all educated people seem to agree we need a better way of taxation. It is easy to hate taxes but in an advanced society they are a necessary evil. Communism works beautifully on paper......



posted on Feb, 2 2014 @ 04:54 PM
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reply to post by vkey08
 


I dunno I suppose it depends on where you put your time and energy expenditures.
Subtract the dollar and explain a way for people to survive without it I suppose.
a coin is mark of worth representative of that time and energy expenditure. How do we actually measure that accurately.
Example, you say you work for .gub /wave at .gub

Your life minutes are of value, very high value actually because we know what you do with them can create a skyscraper, spread democracy, freedom ect. Save a life. Time is also very limited. The outcomes are potentially great provided they have the right direction. What's the measure?

If you save a mans life, how much would you say that is worth in money?

If I and others build you and your family a house for saving that mans life, would you say you were repaid? Were your expenditures spent well, and ours alike? Would you stil lrequire a check?
If I spent 8 hours a day educating your children and your children then went on to save millions, what is my value to you or those millions?

Taxation is not a fair representation of the human capacity then so I agree. It seems more so the be the opposite. I have been asking myself the same question you asked of me. Whats the alternative? Not just to taxation but currency value in our wheel.



posted on Feb, 2 2014 @ 05:02 PM
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reply to post by jrod
 


Wow.
I'm so glad you posted this, and that I took the time to read it. Sorry for slow response...

yes. Please; ALL READERS: Read this article!


Unlike those in the lower half of the top 1%, those in the top half and, particularly, top 0.1%, can often borrow for almost nothing, keep profits and production overseas, hold personal assets in tax havens, ride out down markets and economies, and influence legislation in the U.S. They have access to the very best in accounting firms, tax and other attorneys, numerous consultants, private wealth managers, a network of other wealthy and powerful friends, lucrative business opportunities, and many other benefits. Most of those in the bottom half of the top 1% lack power and global flexibility and are essentially well-compensated workhorses for the top 0.5%, just like the bottom 99%. In my view, the American dream of striking it rich is merely a well-marketed fantasy that keeps the bottom 99.5% hoping for better and prevents social and political instability. The odds of getting into that top 0.5% are very slim and the door is kept firmly shut by those within it.

Read more: www.businessinsider.com...


Cheers, all. We have roofs and food and water and the internet.





posted on Feb, 2 2014 @ 05:12 PM
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reply to post by Nephalim
 


I honestly do not have a solution that's the problem. I cannot sit here and say "I have a better way to do it" and actually be telling the truth and not sound like a complete babbling moron (I ignored the Cow question because just seeing pictures of Cow's made me laugh, I'll explain it somewhere else on the forum, prob general chit chat as to why)

I do a lot of advocacy work for people for free on my own time, I don't expect anything in return, i also am a rather accomplished CGI artist and do that for a worthy cause (or at least I think so) with no expectation of payment or reward, other than others enjoyment. But I have to work to pay the bills like everyone else, and I have to make some money, or the kiddos would starve and that would be bad...

Taxes put simply suck massive USB Dongles...(anyone who has worked in VFX knows *exactly* what it is and it's not perverted) I agree, I can't agree more, I hate them, I hate paying them and I hate even moret hat they can take away what is yours to settle the debt..

But as for a better way, I haven't found one yet that works...



posted on Feb, 9 2014 @ 01:03 AM
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reply to post by vkey08
 


There are alternatives. People just don't pursue them.
Lots of people see certain taxes as stability, a tax in itself is not stability, its instability and a result of instability that creates more instability. Some are fine as they are, some should never exist let alone be accepted as standard practice.

Good luck with your cgi work. Good stuff.
edit on 9-2-2014 by Nephalim because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 3 2014 @ 11:58 PM
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reply to post by SearchLightsInc
 


Capitalism created the middleclass unless u want to go back to farming in the hot sun.



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