Pentagon intelligence official says Chinese hypersonic weapon poses major challenge

reply to post by pheonix358


Missile launchers [Whether Hypersonic or not] are targets themselves.

Another Caveat many seem to forget.

SheopleNation
I wonder what our friends The Chinese are up to deep down in those tunnels, below an entire moutain range, that was reported a few years ago?

Could our sneaky little Mandarin buddies be up to no good? Remains to be seen Jim.

~$heopleNation

Good place to hide their supposedly 2350 nuke warheads and missiles. Music sucks but the tunnels are impressive and the 2d arty claims 3000 miles of tunnels...! Wonder if they have a first and 3d arty too? Maybe all propaganda but well done none the less

P.S.
pheonix35 China has plans to build at least 4 aircraft carriers.. The USA has treaties with little places like Japan and the Philippines which states we guarantee their security. Hard to do without bases and sea lanes. Taiwan and many other places will be under the gun when China feels big and bad enough to take on the U.S. Like one of the Chinese generals said a few years ago, "Will American want to lose a few cities on their west coast for a few islands in Asia" (or something like that) the General did not think so.....

rickymouse
I have no doubt that China can overtake the US militarily in the coming years. They can produce weapons for a quarter of the cost that we pay for them. That is because they do not pay unearthly prices to contractors on these things. Some of their weapons cost only ten percent of what the US buys a comparable weapon for.

We may spend ten times of what they do on the military and national security but they get more for their money. This lines the pocket of the wealthy in this country and creates many high paying jobs. That is not the case there.

You can't even start to compare money spent on military as a judge of military expansion. We are losing ground badly because of high contractor costs.

I don't know that I can agree with the concept of China getting more for their money. It seems a similar scenario to the 1960's and the space race between USSR & US. likewise Russia could build more and build it cheaper but like their modern Chinese counterparts they also built them somewhat inferior. It's the problem you run into when most industries are government controlled, no competition. It's why America was able to get to the moon first despite being behind the Russians from the get go. In America companies have to submit bids for contracts based on what they have plans or mock ups for. While the development end may cost more you're getting equal bang for the buck invested because it will be made better and there are several options to choose from because of the nature of our economic system.

727Sky
Good place to hide their supposedly 2350 nuke warheads and missiles. Music sucks but the tunnels are impressive and the 2d arty claims 3000 miles of tunnels...! Wonder if they have a first and 3d arty too? Maybe all propaganda but well done none the less

727Sky, Yes, without a doubt a lot of it is Red propaganda, but what should concern us, is what we do not know. Interesting video though, at the end of it I see they listed the Georgetown college kid and his pupils, who supposedly originally broke their findings.

However, I find it hard to believe that our Military intelligence was not already aware of these underground systems, but it does make a good story, and takes the heat of off our intelligence because we all know all well that The Chinese do not take kindly to spying.

I remember when they bumped our spy plane down not long after GWB took office, which I always seen as a test by Red China in order to see if Bush was going to take a different approach, instead of being a puppet and traitor like Bill Clinton.

Hillary must be licking her chops while thinking about all the campaign contributions that those rich beyond belief Mandarins are going to donate when she runs for office. Yep, it's going to be the same old U.S Presidential Monarchy, only this next time it won't be the first Black president, but the first Female president!. All so easy.

Back to the Georgetown College kids, Here is a link I remember reading about it on. ~$heopleNation

Georgetown Students Expose China's Nuclear Weapons Secrets

SheopleNation
However, I find it hard to believe that our Military intelligence was not already aware of these underground systems, but it does make a good story, and takes the heat of off our intelligence because we all know all well that The Chinese do not take kindly to spying.

Here is some more info on the topic to follow up on...

China's nuclear arsenal could be up to FORTY times bigger than thought

* Georgetown University student spent three years translating secret military documents and blogs

* Focus of research centred on 3,000 miles of underground tunnels dug by Second Artillery Corps

* Investigation launched after 2008 earthquake in Sichuan revealed existence of collapsed tunnels

* Study claims China could have as many as 3,000 nuclear warheads - far more then current estimates of between 80 and 400

China's nuclear arsenal may be many times larger than estimates suggest, a group of students have claimed after three years of painstaking researching through restricted documents.

Led by a former top Pentagon official, the students at Georgetown University, in Washington DC, have scrutinised satellite imagery, translated Chinese military documents and filtered through thousands of online files.

The focus of their extensive research has been the thousands of miles of underground tunnels dug by the Second Artillery Corps to hide China's missile arsenal.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Thank you for the additional info Slayer, I have read some of your earlier work on the subject of Red China. Your link answers my original suspicions, which was that what they at Georgetown discovered, was more than what was already known by our intelligence, or what is publicly admitted.

You are very efficient, and good at research, so it's not a surprise. I was not even aware that the study at Georgetown was led by a former top Pentagon official. I may have read about that years back, but I believe I would have recalled such an important detail concerning it all. ~$heopleNation

SLAYER69
reply to post by pheonix358

 

Missile launchers [Whether Hypersonic or not] are targets themselves.

Another Caveat many seem to forget.

edit on 1-2-2014 by SLAYER69 because: (no reason given)

Yes they are. We have no idea how many they have and you yourself point out the enormousness network of tunnels.

Good luck trying to take out the tunnels unless you have the tunnel map.

The defenders always have the advantage if the know how to use it. Think Vietnam and you will get my drift.

P

reply to post by crazyewok


ah, the ever reliable CrazyWok...LOL.

Actually, I don't disagree with the underestimation aspect. The one concern I do have is their ability to allocate any amount of money to a specific project without an oversite committee watching over their shoulders and with the degree of high tech nerds out there available for hire, they could easily find something really dramatic that shifts the balance in their favor.

Having said that-I know nothing, just a trucker-I don't believe in the traditional weapon systems that it's likely they have matched us or passed us.

My limited understanding says the two areas China has done real well is cyber-warfare and conventional submarine technologies. Real good boats, apparently.

As far as my attitude of rah, rah goes...well it was to counter unwarranted fear of the Chinese more than anything.

As far as U.S. military technology goes, it probably is still well number one overall with a few exceptions that more prove the rule than anything.

Boy, you sure do have a thing on American rah, rah, don't you. LOL. I shall push your buttons more often from now on...

reply to post by crazyewok


Don't hate me because I'm beautiful. We're the police for western civilization. We spend more money in a year on war than the whole world combined. You think we don't have some s**t up our sleeve? Do catch up.

Impressive tech, nothing we don't already posses but hey i guess that's
the game is it not? someone builds it then someone else tries to gain
that tech to be equal militarily.

I keep saying this but i don't think anyone wants to hear it, the aren't
going to just start flinging missiles, sure its possible for a small conflict
to break out, maybe even another proxy war somewhere but if
any world power starts targeting bigger ships or bases or like some say
here cities then you can bet the world wont be worth living in very
shortly thereafter.....

Its not that i think anyone would win, i think they all know no one could
possibly win in a situation like that. Hypersonic ICBMs are already a reality
also by the way. Meaning MAD is still a complete and horrifying reality to
this day.

reply to post by crazyewok


American LEADERSHIP is that of which you speak teddy bear, I and most of America sees them as rogue and it may indeed come to a head.
We (YOU AND WE) ARE the best in a conventional conflict.Eastern troops ,China ,Russia and ALL the rest die at 100 to one, all we need to do is see them and they are gone or we run them down. No chest beating it's a fact. Your leadership has put YOU in the same basket .I know you don't want this either,but YOUR "what if" looks like a contractor police force in place of traditional police and the infiltration of militant Muslims.

We can absorb a great deal of damage and all it does is piss us off. We are possibly ending this mess this year.I would suggest perhaps addressing your chosen deity regardless of your faith to aid us in these dangerous domestic issues.

If we keep talking it is over for war.

If I remember correctly Clintion singed a E.O. to absorb a nuclear first strike in the efforts of peace in case it was an oops... The argument at the time was that our second strike capabilities at the time from our boomers would be able to decimate our enemies without our ground base assets. At or around the same time they also changed how our subs were issued launch orders, launch only on the authority of the CIC, no order no launch. The problem is if the ELF/ULF systems were attacked and taken out or second strike ability is removed. Mix this with a hyper-sonic nuclear first strike we are screwed.

Grim

reply to post by Hoosierdaddy71


The first shooting down of a opposing military satellite will guarantee nuclear retaliation, if an when it happens it will not be a single satellite but everyone that can be detected, the debris field will shred everything in orbit. My best guess is that they will simply attempt to damage the satellites capabilities (Especially if given a chance before the conflict), but keeping it otherwise unharmed. Like in the movies when they subvert but do not destroy the security cameras as that would get an immediate response...

Hoosierdaddy71
The biggest problem with shooting a missile at a ship is targeting info. You need fairly precise locations to hit a target. You can't shoot in the general direction of a ship and hope for a hit. Satellites can do this, that's why the US is working hard to perfect shooting down satellites. The speeds involved are tremendous and a blink is a mile miss. Still a target moving at Mach ten is frightening.

There are missiles and torpedoes that will circle a particular area of ocean until they lock onto a target. Even worse is the price difference between a missile costing a few million and potential high value targets like aircraft carriers that cost billions of dollars.

www.wisegeek.com...


www.navy.mil...

reply to post by SLAYER69


Exactly what I was thinking. It's like the lead up to China being a superpower is simply a push by people looking to a workable advisory. The Germans flunked out on world domination after WWII, the Russians lost the cold war, Iran just wants to blow up Israeli, Israel wants to blow up everyone touching them, North Korea is a joke with a punch line dictator. The Chinese are the only ones able to strike a little fear in people.

*At least the only ones with rhetoric that might actually scare people into spending $$$$$.




MAD is a powerful thing. And if the Russians couldn't pull the trigger with high blood alcohol from vodka, I don't see any others doing it.

Now one thing I'm trying to clear up, if I understand the OP correctly, then China having this capability as a result of us (Former President) selling them military secrets, then wouldn't that mean we already had access to said systems?
If that is the case, then is it safe to assume that we already have protective measure in place for potential technologies.
Lets assume their is no way to defend that, then at least had this technology already created long before chinese eyes took a glanced at it and therefore already developed measures to counteract said technologies.
I for one am not convinced. We may put all out laundry out their with the media and all, but military secrets is one thing we most definitely have. Kind of like doomsday preppers, you just don't tell folks what you REALLY have.

LABTECH767
reply to post by 727Sky

 

There are faction's playing power game's and they are doing so with our live's and freedom's.

And a whole host of miscreant apostrophes no doubt.

reply to post by Alekto


The apostrophes aren't as "miscreant" as commenting on them is....

If America ever loses a carrier, well there reaction might be almost the same as if a small city got nuked. Much less by unknowns has been done to them in the past and they way over reacted even against the advise on the generals. A loss of a carrier with hundred of causalities, would be like a Pearl Harbor to the Joint Chiefs.

It would actually make a perfect false flag op as well.