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20 Million Felons, 47 Million on SNAP, 13 Million on Welfare, 15 Million Unemployed

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posted on Feb, 3 2014 @ 09:56 AM
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reply to post by jimmyx
 


What is the point behind this???

Another "woes me" retort?




posted on Feb, 3 2014 @ 09:59 AM
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jimmyx
a couple of questions...
1...did you grow up in a loving 2 parent family?
2...did you live in a neighborhood that WASN'T "ghetto-like" in it's poverty and crime?
3...did you attend schools that were mostly safe, had good teachers, and had parent participation?
4...did you have others, outside your parents, that helped you, and were kind to you, in your early life?
edit on 3-2-2014 by jimmyx because: (no reason given)


Is the implication that having some number of those things is an acceptable excuse for whatever situation a person is in?

edit on 2014pAmerica/Chicago2810pam by opethPA because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 3 2014 @ 10:06 AM
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reply to post by opethPA
 


It appears to be a "It's societies fault" argument.

Using a persons background, as a reason for their failure is an excuse that too many people attempt to rely on.

Instead of setting a goal, and allowing nothing to get in the way of this goal and achieving it, it is just another way to tell people it isn't their fault.



posted on Feb, 3 2014 @ 10:26 AM
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jimmyx

macman

onequestion


Until we create conditions for economic prosperity do you think we want 50 million hungry jobless americans running around?


I work a day job, that pays very very well. I worked my way up into this position.

I also started another company last year. We are already in the black and are have sold the same amount in just the first month, as we did for 6 months last year.
We sell in an industry that is kind of a "Want" rather then a "Need".

There is prosperity all around. It all comes down to how bad to you want it, and will you work for it.



a couple of questions...
1...did you grow up in a loving 2 parent family?
2...did you live in a neighborhood that WASN'T "ghetto-like" in it's poverty and crime?
3...did you attend schools that were mostly safe, had good teachers, and had parent participation?
4...did you have others, outside your parents, that helped you, and were kind to you, in your early life?
edit on 3-2-2014 by jimmyx because: (no reason given)


No, single parent family in the worst part of Los Angeles, we still got by ok..
No, ever been in the area around 6th Ave?
HA! no....
Not really, got in my first knife fight at age 13, was brutally raped shortly thereafter and again two years later, was left for dead a couple of times...

But let's see me now......

I have two daughters that I raise alone (Yes I know who their father is, he died 6 years ago in the line of duty)
I have a very good job, that pays my bills for the most part, and provides for my family.
I have a secondary job that I do because of my love for it, not because i HAVE to..
I have friends and family around that are loving and caring.
I live in a rural area that is beautiful...

So how you grow up, is not indicative of how we will turn out...

PS: oh and yeah I'm the ATS Czar of Coffee and Other Caffeinated Beverages... due to the site elections a few years ago ^_^ just a fun aside...
edit on 322014 by vkey08 because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 3 2014 @ 10:37 AM
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vkey08

was brutally raped shortly thereafter and again two years later, was left for dead a couple of times...


That really makes me want to go on a vigilante rampage.

I don't know of much that makes me more enraged, then things like that.



posted on Feb, 3 2014 @ 10:45 AM
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vkey08
So how you grow up, is not indicative of how we will turn out...


Unless you want to use it as an excuse for why your are failing at whatever your targets in life are .
Then it's welcome aboard the "hold everyone and everything else accountable in life but me" train.



posted on Feb, 3 2014 @ 11:31 AM
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opethPA

vkey08
So how you grow up, is not indicative of how we will turn out...


Unless you want to use it as an excuse for why your are failing at whatever your targets in life are .
Then it's welcome aboard the "hold everyone and everything else accountable in life but me" train.


I honestly believe that a certain percentage of the population is just weaker - mentally, emotionally, physically. I had a friend in middle school who came from a very dysfunctional family - her parents were uneducated low-lifes, her sister had gotten pregnant at 15, dropped out of high school and was living with the parents while working as a waitress at a truck stop. My friend saw my life with caring parents who supported me, encouraged me, etc. She and I would have heart-to-heart conversations, where she would say that she didn't want to end up like her sister - she wanted a better life for herself. She wanted college, a career, a nice home. Fast forward a few years to our junior year of high school. We weren't as close then, because I could see her drifting more and more towards the kind of life her sister and parents had. She came up to me and said, "well, I just wanted to say goodbye - I'm dropping out of school to work full time at the truck stop my sister works at." I just looked at her and asked her why, when she had always said she didn't want that kind of life. What about college and a career? She just shrugged and said, "I just don't think I can do it." She wasn't a bad person, she just wasn't strong enough to pull herself out of her current situation.

I think there are probably a lot of people just like her. Hell, I might have been one of them, but I had all the advantages in life, so I never got the chance to find out.

What do we do with the weaker people who don't have the advantages that make it easier to be a success? Just let them live in squalor and raise weak children who follow in their parents' footsteps? Should we round them up and kill them to put them out of their (and our) misery? Mind you, I'm not talking about sociopaths who have no problem taking advantage of others. I'm talking about decent people who are just weak.
edit on 3-2-2014 by kaylaluv because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 3 2014 @ 12:14 PM
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kaylaluv


What do we do with the weaker people who don't have the advantages that make it easier to be a success? Just let them live in squalor and raise weak children who follow in their parents' footsteps? Should we round them up and kill them to put them out of their (and our) misery? Mind you, I'm not talking about sociopaths who have no problem taking advantage of others. I'm talking about decent people who are just weak.
edit on 3-2-2014 by kaylaluv because: (no reason given)


I say tax more people more. Then the Govt can give these people the stuff they need/want.
That is fair.

I mean, we can't allow someone that is successful, but works 16-18hr days to keep more of their money, now can we?


Some people will always be just a janitor or ditch digger. We needs those people. Just as some people aren't cut out for college.

Not everyone can be a millionaire.

It is not the responsibility, nor the business of Govt to do such things for people.



posted on Feb, 3 2014 @ 12:21 PM
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macman

vkey08

was brutally raped shortly thereafter and again two years later, was left for dead a couple of times...


That really makes me want to go on a vigilante rampage.

I don't know of much that makes me more enraged, then things like that.



It inspired me to go into a line of work where I could make a difference for people, so I turned it into a positive..

But thank you
it's nice to see I am not the only one disgusted by it..



posted on Feb, 3 2014 @ 12:22 PM
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opethPA

vkey08
So how you grow up, is not indicative of how we will turn out...


Unless you want to use it as an excuse for why your are failing at whatever your targets in life are .
Then it's welcome aboard the "hold everyone and everything else accountable in life but me" train.


Which is why I made the comment I did...

Holding your upbringing responsible for how you turn out is akin to holding some invisible entity responsible for how you turned out, life is what you make of it, struggles and all, in the end, you can either be crippled by them r rise above, and you don't need money to have hope or optimism..



posted on Feb, 3 2014 @ 12:31 PM
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reply to post by macman
 


Of course not everyone can be a millionaire. But not everyone who is on welfare is a lazy bum trying to take advantage of everyone else. In fact, I think the vast majority of people on welfare aren't lazy bums. They are just weaker than the rest. Either they have no clue on how to pull themselves out, or they have no confidence in themselves that they can actually do it.

I am not in favor of lifetime welfare payments, by the way. But rather than blaming welfare recipients and accusing them all (or most of them) of intentionally scamming the system, I would rather take a look at what their backgrounds were to get an idea of how they ended up in their situation. And if most of them came from bad or nonexistent parents, from bad neighborhoods/bad schools, etc. - then maybe we should take a look at how we can improve those conditions. I realize that some people who started off in those conditions were able to pull themselves up, but they were the strong ones. Not everyone is strong enough to overcome adversity. The goal is to get more people off welfare, not to make everyone a millionaire. If you improve the situation from the beginning and provide more opportunities, I believe you would have a lot less people on welfare.

Telling them they just need to get over it and get off their butts is not productive or helpful at all, and will never solve the problem, IMHO.



posted on Feb, 3 2014 @ 12:34 PM
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reply to post by kaylaluv
 


Hear hear.....


I wish I could say more in response but wow, you really nailed it, so all I can say is I concur



posted on Feb, 3 2014 @ 12:38 PM
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kaylaluv


Of course not everyone can be a millionaire. But not everyone who is on welfare is a lazy bum trying to take advantage of everyone else. In fact, I think the vast majority of people on welfare aren't lazy bums. They are just weaker than the rest. Either they have no clue on how to pull themselves out, or they have no confidence in themselves that they can actually do it.

Weaker or not, it is not the place of the Govt to "take care" of these people.


kaylaluv

I am not in favor of lifetime welfare payments, by the way. But rather than blaming welfare recipients and accusing them all (or most of them) of intentionally scamming the system, I would rather take a look at what their backgrounds were to get an idea of how they ended up in their situation. And if most of them came from bad or nonexistent parents, from bad neighborhoods/bad schools, etc. - then maybe we should take a look at how we can improve those conditions. I realize that some people who started off in those conditions were able to pull themselves up, but they were the strong ones. Not everyone is strong enough to overcome adversity. The goal is to get more people off welfare, not to make everyone a millionaire. If you improve the situation from the beginning and provide more opportunities, I believe you would have a lot less people on welfare.

It still is excuses used for a person not succeeding.
The goal is to stop having the Govt take from me, to give to others.


kaylaluv
Telling them they just need to get over it and get off their butts is not productive or helpful at all, and will never solve the problem, IMHO.


Yes, yes it will.
Unless they are constantly told by people and the Govt "poor you, you can't do this. here, let me help you".

Tell someone they need to feed themselves, and they, more times than not, will find something to eat.



posted on Feb, 3 2014 @ 12:57 PM
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macman

Weaker or not, it is not the place of the Govt to "take care" of these people.


Why not? The government represents all of us - not just those of us who are strong and successful.



It still is excuses used for a person not succeeding.
The goal is to stop having the Govt take from me, to give to others.


If we can find a way to help those who can't overcome their adverse situations, it will get them off of welfare, which is good for the whole country - including YOU! I say the government should put time and money into poor neighborhoods - it's a good long term investment.



Yes, yes it will.
Unless they are constantly told by people and the Govt "poor you, you can't do this. here, let me help you".

Tell someone they need to feed themselves, and they, more times than not, will find something to eat.



No, no it won't. Telling our fellow citizens that they are on their own, when they have absolutely nothing and can't figure out a way out of it - is NOT a solution to the problem. Look at other countries where people were starving and got no help - you think they just "found something to eat"? I don't think so.



posted on Feb, 3 2014 @ 01:02 PM
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reply to post by kaylaluv
 


Very logical conclusions.

I disagree with your premise of being weak. It takes a few years for people with no support system into adulthood to deal with the mistakes and tribulations that happened while growing up. A 15 year old is not responsible for their enviornment but a product of it. Then in early adulthood these people make a lot of mistakes while learning how to take control of their lives and thats when they need the most help.

Thats also when they get the least help. A 23 year old whos been faced with adversity for their entire lives is going to make a few mistakes coming into adulthood. We as a community should be there to help guide that person into a better place.

edit on 20142America/Chicagoq000000America/Chicago4328032014 by onequestion because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 3 2014 @ 01:19 PM
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Well, this thread is a good example of a choice people have to make. Now, you can put whatever spin on it you want, but this is your choice:

You can give to the poor, regardless of what you think you know about their ability to make money

Or

You can blame the poor for being *insert human judgment here*

Regardless of which choice you make, you won't change anything because the extremely wealthy people in the world are still going to pillage the middle class before anyone else - that is regardless of all other variables. This has to do with a foreseeable goal that has been in effect and picking up speed since after WWII, as far as I can see.

Personally, I give whatever is asked of me. If a homeless person asks me for money, I give what I can (and sometimes all that I have in my pockets). Material items and money have no real value to me. I do this out of obedience to God's Word. God told us to not withhold even our cloak if someone asks for it.

One time someone tried to rob me at gunpoint for my watch, among other items (and given the set up and some decisions he made during the attempted robbery, was likely looking to murder me afterwards). Without getting into the details, it hurts him when it rains to this day. I prayed for his life while he was in surgery and I was sitting on a concrete floor wondering when I will see my family again. I will never understand why so many people wish I had killed him. I do not judge people and their circumstances. I just want peace. I want everyone to find God. I do not want vengeance.

Conversely, one time a coworker asked me for my watch. I gave the coworker the watch (nice watch too).

So, I am not saying you should let people take from you (literally take).

Now, I normally don't talk about what I give because God told us to give in secret, but none of you know me so I guess I can this one time to illustrate a point.


Extremely rich people are always going to take from you. Poor people are only going to try to take from you sometimes, and they are normally pretty desperate when they do. Blame them for their desperation all you want, but when it comes to the poor, you have a chance to give instead of being taken from. Or you can scavenge what you can to keep for yourself, if material items are your idol.

Stop with the crabs in a bucket mentality. The poor and the middle class are in the same bucket. Let's help each other out. Don't let rich people tell you that you deserve something because you worked hard for it. That is propaganda to keep you in control.

But, like I said, it won't make a difference really. Being willing to relinquish control over your possessions is more beneficial to your own mind frame than it is to the person you gave to.

So just make your own choice:

Give to the poor or don't

I came up with people who had to dodge bullets just to make it out of high school, and the best of them got hit before he graduated. He didn't live.

So, in my opinion, none of us "deserve" anything. He didn't deserve to get shot and I don't deserve the opportunities I have today. I don't deserve a cent of the money I work for. Everything is God's. We all are sinners. We work to get a check from a rich person. After that, a beautiful thing comes into play that many would try to subvert:

Free Will

Make your own choice about whether or not you want to give. Don't be influenced. And stay out of the political arguments, because that is all a sideshow anyways. There is social engineering taking place that you won't be able to stop no matter what you do. This country does not constitute a Democracy until a poor or middle class worker is put in the white house (which won't ever happen). Despite the propaganda, voting is completely pointless. They will continue to control the perceptions of the masses and all the voting and political debate in the world will not change that.

Turn the discussion away from politics and the government, things you have no control over, and back to your own personal free will. What is beneficial to your own mind and your own soul?

This is not about politics: this is about your free will.



posted on Feb, 3 2014 @ 01:21 PM
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reply to post by onequestion
 


I see what you're saying, but remember - as far as mistakes -- rich 23-year-olds make mistakes too. They just have rich parents who can bail them out.

I just see too many people who end up exactly like their parents and older siblings and friends/other members of their community. If none of them ever made anything of themselves, then I can see where it would be easy for the person to fall right into the same trap - over and over, generation after generation. In those cases, it's not really an issue of a few mistakes, it's almost like a destiny that seems too large to overcome. It takes a really strong person to overcome that destiny.



posted on Feb, 3 2014 @ 01:22 PM
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reply to post by onequestion
 


But making bad choices is the result from being weak minded.



posted on Feb, 3 2014 @ 01:27 PM
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thesaneone
reply to post by onequestion
 


But making bad choices is the result from being weak minded.


Onequestion:

Should a soldier involve himself or herself in civilian affairs?

eta: sorry thesaneone, I forgot to specify that this post is not directed at you
edit on 3-2-2014 by FreeWillAnomaly because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 3 2014 @ 01:33 PM
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reply to post by kaylaluv
 


Its really hard to be in a tough community where there isn't economic prosperity. If you grow up your entire life and you see people making bad choices and you never glimpse prosperity then its hard for this person to gain perspective on their situation.

I get the personal responsibility idea but its not as black and white as personal responsibility its about having support when you finally become an adult.

This has nothing to do with welfare and entitlements its about support and enabling. Theres nothing wrong with spending tax money on education resources instead of funding wars and giving away more then what it cost to buy our entire nation education in foreign aid.

This is not as cut and dry as welfare and personal responsibility.



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