55 dead bodies = no trials and no arrests-Florida school for boys

randyvs
reply to post by Tusks

 

Gonna need more info or we'll just be jumping at conclusions.

Come on now. A mass grave? Or mass graves?
Human beings deserve more respect than the type of burial
that implys foul play and cover-up. I don't wear rose colored
glasses. I doubt if we're even hearing the truth about the details even now.
There are people at state levels involved because the state should be
noticing people drop out of existance.

thank you!!

there is little left to the imagination. This is a major break through on just how bad this place was

UxoriousMagnus

How can there not be trials and arrests made?

because most of those responsible are already dead.

Here are a few Huff Post articles on it from the past couple years:

Huff

Here is another good article and report on this:

For Their Own Good

MARIANNA — The men remember the same things: blood on the walls, bits of lip or tongue on the pillow, the smell of urine and whiskey, the way the bed springs sang with each blow. The way they cried out for Jesus or mama. The grinding of the old fan that muffled their cries. The one-armed man who swung the strap.

They remember walking into the dark little building on the campus of the Florida School for Boys, in bare feet and white pajamas, afraid they'd never walk out.

Let's also not forget that The Elimination of Malaria in the US didn't start until around 1947, and not only that, but, Encephalitis, among other mosquito borne diseases were also higher than they are now.

Further, as also mentioned, there's Polio, Influenza, as well as many other diseases almost eradicated by vaccines in the 20th Century that could have contributed to the deaths of these boys.

Certainly, unmarked graves are indeed suspicious, but, markers could be argued to have been a cost amenity such an already notorious for poor care facility could not, or would not rationalize into its budget.

Poor nutrition, and lack of attention to safety in any activities these boys may have been pressed into undertaking could also account for death from preventable infections caused by simple cuts and injuries we treat now with topical application of iodine, Hydrogen peroxide, Bactine, or Neosporin.

We often lose sight of the fact that our mortality, or more appropriately the lessening of our mortality is largely the result of many technologies, not only in medicine, but food preparation and regulation, refrigeration, and even air-conditioning.

Nature wants to kill us. The further we get away from her, the longer we live and the more unfamiliar we are with death.
Death was once much much more common even in socially stratified demographics, but, definitely more so on the fringes.

This isn't to say many or some of these deaths were or were not the result of willful purposed criminal action.
The bodies will certainly need autopsies to give us stronger indications as to what happened here.

reply to post by UxoriousMagnus


Dexter isnt this sick. He doesnt harm children. I cant belive this happend.

reply to post by AliceBleachWhite


Except when you literally have hundreds of allegations of rape and abuse against the staff members.

Some are still alive, including Troy Tidwell, an instructor at the school, who was accused of abuse in a class-action lawsuit filed by more than two hundred former students in 2009. (Tidwell denies the accusations, and the case was dismissed after a judge ruled that the statute of limitations on the charges had run out.)

Are you really trying to consider polio and influenza as real suspects given the circumstances and ACTUAL ALLEGATIONS?

Amazing how some people are trying to turn this incident into an opportunity to educate people about disease and vaccinations.

Freaking Amazing!

-FBB

reply to post by Vasa Croe


When I think of the conditions and cruelty in some of these institutions I can't help but wonder what was wrong with these people.
or the dark ages in Europe, what was different in their psyche?

Tylerdurden1
reply to post by UxoriousMagnus

 

Dexter isnt this sick. He doesnt harm children. I cant belive this happend.

LOL...good point

he had a code at least...

I am wondering how "new" some of these bodies are....are they all from the 1920's era or are some from say....the 1970' - 1990's. Not that older would be better but to think that these atrocities could have been happening in the very near past is crazy.

It will be interesting to see how this pans out.

What about the relatives - moms, dads, aunts, uncles, etc. - that were probably lied to regarding the fate of their child? Surely some of those kids were reported missing. Even if told that the boy died of Malaria or something, wouldn't they have wanted to bury the body properly?

I may be naive about this considering I have sons, but I can't imagine that family would've just let it go.

Lolliek
What about the relatives - moms, dads, aunts, uncles, etc. - that were probably lied to regarding the fate of their child? Surely some of those kids were reported missing. Even if told that the boy died of Malaria or something, wouldn't they have wanted to bury the body properly?

I may be naive about this considering I have sons, but I can't imagine that family would've just let it go.

good point....they could have just said the kids "escaped" and they don't know where they went.

horrifying thought really

FriedBabelBroccoli
reply to post by AliceBleachWhite

 

Except when you literally have hundreds of allegations of rape and abuse against the staff members.

Some are still alive, including Troy Tidwell, an instructor at the school, who was accused of abuse in a class-action lawsuit filed by more than two hundred former students in 2009. (Tidwell denies the accusations, and the case was dismissed after a judge ruled that the statute of limitations on the charges had run out.)

Are you really trying to consider polio and influenza as real suspects given the circumstances and ACTUAL ALLEGATIONS?

Amazing how some people are trying to turn this incident into an opportunity to educate people about disease and vaccinations.

Freaking Amazing!

-FBB

It's amusing how some folks only "hear" or read what enables their quick to grab pitchfork and torches hands to grab at such.

Please enjoy the part where I said:

AliceBleachWhite

This isn't to say many or some of these deaths were or were not the result of willful purposed criminal action.
The bodies will certainly need autopsies to give us stronger indications as to what happened here.

We have this thing in the United States called DUE PROCESS.
We look at the Evidence, and suspend responsibility until sufficient grounds for prosecution are met.

Now, unmarked graves alone is grounds for some inquiry, and even actionable sanction somewhere.
Some bodies very well, as stated before, may very well be the result of criminal abuse.

The facility very definitely had a reputation.

We must, however, keep in mind that from 1900 - even into the 1950s, healthcare at the facility was sans vaccination, and even afterwards, due state funding was likely not the best if ever at all.

I would reserve judgement until such time as the bodies have time to each tell their individual stories.

AutumnWitch657
reply to post by UxoriousMagnus

 

The "state" didn't do this . People who are abusive to children did. The state didn't raise a finger to these kids. Someone with fingers did. Don't marginalize this by blaming bureaucracy. There were real people not check signers that killed them. There have been a lot of examples of institutional abuse of children. But it's not the institution or the state it's sickos tasked with caring for these children who preform these atrocious acts. We have better screenings these days but still we know that the abusers still get near the children anyway. Orphanages are a thing of the past here for the most part. They have been replaced with foster care placement rather than institutional placement and even this process cannot guarantee that a child will be safe. Many kids have been abused in foster care too.

Sorry, but it was the STATE that facilitated in whitewashing the incident and not following procedures to bring these events to public knowledge.

I guarantee you, someone brought knowledge of strange deaths/disappearances up the chain of management...and someone in management (aka, THE STATE) decided it was best to keep things quiet.

There are two parties involved...the perpetrators....and those who helped cover it up for the sake of appearances....

reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli

You can prosecute them in Florida.
The article you linked to even confirms this.
There is no statute of limitations for murder and other crimes causing death, which means that there is no legal bar to bringing charges. In Florida, all capital cases have long had no statute of limitations, and when these crimes were allegedly committed forcible rape was punishable by death. But there are challenges to prosecuting old crimes: given how much time has passed, it may be difficult to determine who was responsible for the killings, and many of the suspects, meanwhile, have already died, including the school’s longtime superintendent, Lenox Williams, who died in 2010. Some are still alive, including Troy Tidwell, an instructor at the school, who was accused of abuse in a class-action lawsuit filed by more than two hundred former students in 2009. (Tidwell denies the accusations, and the case was dismissed after a judge ruled that the statute of limitations on the charges had run out.)

I was replying to UxoriousMagnus about prosecuting for the unmarked graves not about murder charges. I said I wasn't even sure their were laws on the books that could cover such a thing.

As far as murder charges go of course they could be prosecuted but before that can happen they have to prove that one or more of the children were murdered which can be hard to do by simply looking at bones for the most part. I am pretty sure one or more were killed but prosecuting for such may be difficult. They haven't even identified who all of them are yet.

I know six children died there from a fire from the records, but I do not know if they were buried there. It is going to take a while for them to identify the causes of death for most cases baring something obvious like a crushed skull. As I said the how, when, and who they are is a process before they can even try to bring charges. If they do find evidence of a murder then I am sure it will be a process just trying to figure out who the suspects may be.

These are extreme cold cases where even with evidence of murder and a list of suspects it will still be hard to prosecute without eye witness testimony or a flat out confession.

I understand a lot of people want to see justice for those kids, but it takes time, and it may not be possible without someone confessing. I wouldn't count on that happening though.

WIKI on Florida School for Boys, also known as the Arthur G. Dozier School for Boys

Lolliek
What about the relatives - moms, dads, aunts, uncles, etc. - that were probably lied to regarding the fate of their child? Surely some of those kids were reported missing. Even if told that the boy died of Malaria or something, wouldn't they have wanted to bury the body properly?

I may be naive about this considering I have sons, but I can't imagine that family would've just let it go.

You have to remember the facility opened in 1900 that was 113 years ago. Some of those kids may have been abandoned and until we know when they died can I speculate as to why their bodies were not claimed. Remember the Great Depression of 1929 was a worldwide depression that lasted for 10 years some families may not have had the means to hold a proper burial. Of course I am only speculating but I am fairly confident that those children didn't all die the same year or decade. In 2009 an inquiry concluded that 31 boy were buried there they are just now finding out the number is almost double and possibly more.

Of course with the most recent deaths it will be easier to find the families but some of those kids may not have any surviving family in this age. It is over a hundred years of history at that place who knows when the first grave was dug.


Here is a good article on the place and some its history.thewhitehouseboys

The quote below is what legally may be done.

There is no statute of limitations for murder and other crimes causing death, which means that there is no legal bar to bringing charges. In Florida, all capital cases have long had no statute of limitations, and when these crimes were allegedly committed forcible rape was punishable by death. But there are challenges to prosecuting old crimes: given how much time has passed, it may be difficult to determine who was responsible for the killings, and many of the suspects, meanwhile, have already died, including the school’s longtime superintendent, Lenox Williams, who died in 2010. Some are still alive, including Troy Tidwell, an instructor at the school, who was accused of abuse in a class-action lawsuit filed by more than two hundred former students in 2009. (Tidwell denies the accusations, and the case was dismissed after a judge ruled that the statute of limitations on the charges had run out.)

In spite of these difficulties, a prosecutor still has many options in a case like this one. Scenes of mass death, like those caused by fires at night clubs in which the exits are blocked, are often prosecuted as cases of involuntary manslaughter. If the wantonly negligent operation of the school led to many deaths, the Florida School of Boys was like a deadly fire in slow motion. In addition, some of the school’s surviving employees and managers could potentially be prosecuted for felony murder—Florida law includes special provisions for deaths that occur during the abuse of minors—or, alternatively, members of the staff could be prosecuted as members of a conspiracy. There may also be fresher claims of obstruction of justice. A law student could probably find more options, let alone a dedicated prosecutor.

reply to post by AliceBleachWhite

It had already been posted.

Tusks
One death, on average, every couple of years?--for how many inmates?
How many died during the influenza outbreak?
For 50 of those years, there were no vaccines and no antibiotics.
Gonna need more info or we'll just be jumping at conclusions.

Your post was just extra.

I'd say that jumping to conclusions here and blaming the State of Florida is a little premature.

One of my first thoughts during those years was of the Spanish Flu. My own father was born in 1913 and when that hit, 6 of his 10 brothers and sisters died from that single event. With no vaccines for many potentially fatal diseases that number might not actually be that large over that much time.

It's good they seem to be investigating this fully.

FriedBabelBroccoli
reply to post by AliceBleachWhite

 

Except when you literally have hundreds of allegations of rape and abuse against the staff members.

Some are still alive, including Troy Tidwell, an instructor at the school, who was accused of abuse in a class-action lawsuit filed by more than two hundred former students in 2009. (Tidwell denies the accusations, and the case was dismissed after a judge ruled that the statute of limitations on the charges had run out.)

Are you really trying to consider polio and influenza as real suspects given the circumstances and ACTUAL ALLEGATIONS?

Amazing how some people are trying to turn this incident into an opportunity to educate people about disease and vaccinations.

Freaking Amazing!

-FBB

Are you really that surprised? This is typical around here.

There might be an investigation underway, but I have little faith that such an investigation will ever uncover the truth. Cases like this are usually swept under the rug because somewhere along the way, someone powerful was involved or at least aware of what was going on, and powerful people don't live by the same rules the rest of us do.

The report will probably come to the same conclusion Alice has come to, and her and others here can smugly say "I told you so". Allegations of abuse and cruelty be damned.

edit to add: Blaming the state of florida isn't necessarily the right way to do things (although it can be argued they hold some of the responsibility). Instead, the entire staff of that facility and their associates should be investigated, whether living or dead, and every effort should be made to identify every single body in those graves.

reply to post by DeadSeraph


DA,
After reading about this.....I am just hoping that enough exposure will require them to do exactly what you stated....bring to justice anyone that they can....but also identifying who is in there and what happened to them.

I think of the Penn State Sandusky horror show and then read something like this about all these unaccounted for bodies....it is the ingredients of nightmares...

AliceBleachWhite

Let's also not forget that The Elimination of Malaria in the US didn't start until around 1947, and not only that, but, Encephalitis, among other mosquito borne diseases were also higher than they are now.

Let's also not forget the accounts given by former victims of this house-of-horrors.

Like the former resident that recalled a young black child being put in a commercial dryer and spun to death. This Marianna facility had continuous "incidents" pretty much until they closed the doors. This was but one detention facility in a region where detention facilities are a major industry and are darn near on every street corner. (exaggeration mine)

Florida has a very serious problem with law enforcement and detention facilities. Only a few years ago, a 14 year-old child was murdered at a sheriffs boot camp in NW Florida.

www.cbsnews.com...

This kind of integrity-rot could not continue unless it came from the top down.