Lunar coincidence

OptimusSubprime
reply to post by Utnapisjtim

 

As we all know, the moon effects life here on Earth in a significant way. If the moon were any bigger or smaller life would be very different here. If the moon were any closer or further away life would be different here. Ocean currents, weather, gravity, etc... would all be very different. There are far too many "random occurrences", not only here on Earth, but outside of Earth for anything to be random. The size of the sun, the distance from the Earth to the sun, the tilt and rotation of the Earth, etc... are all precisely perfect to allow for and sustain life here on Earth. To me, this is all evidence of a creator, and I believe that creator is the LORD Jesus Christ (John 1:1)

Actually size makes no difference proximity does in fact the moon used to be alot closer than it is now to the point it took up over a quarter of the sky. Oh and i keep seeing the moon is hollow well its not Its core just isnt anywhere near as dense as ours. See we know its not hollow through math we know its gravity and we know its size and that makes it impossible.

reply to post by dragonridr


Armies normally attack at new moon, when it's as dark as possible, while most carnivores think the other way, light being a pro. Also around full moon, sleep patterns among animals are distorted, and they get more agitated. Being moon sick used to be a diagnosis, we still see that in words like 'lunacy' and 'monster'. Some claim crime statistics peak around full Moon.

I guess you're right, but I still find it fascinating.

reply to post by Utnapisjtim


Wow, it's been a while since someone posted this list of supposed anomalies. Usually, it's part of an attempt to prove that the Moon is really a spaceship. Anyway, here goes....

[1] The lunar month matches the human ovulation cycle.

Probably due to the fact that human beings evolved on Earth. There may be survival advantage involved in a reproductive cycle that allows offspring to be born during periods of bounty.

[2] The Moon and the Sun appears to be the same size in the sky, 30 arc minutes or half an arc degree across.

This is only temporary. As has been pointed out, the Moon is spiraling away.

[3] The Moon’s spin equals it’s orbit around Earth, so the Moon’s appearance is always the same seen from Earth (synchronous rotation).

This is the norm for natural satellites. It is due to a phenomenon known as 'tidal locking.'

[4] The Moon's axis cross the ecliptic on a straight angle, off by only 1.5°.

This is probably due to the Earth and Moon sharing a common origin, with angular momentum being conserved.

[5] The full Moon always rise at Sunset, the new Moon always rise at Sunrise.

That is because the full Moon is always, by definition, located 180 degrees away from the Sun. Incidentally, there can be regional variations due to irregular landscape features, etc.

[6] A Saros is a period of exactly 223 Synodic months, after which the Sun, Earth, and Moon return to approximately the same relative geometry.

I need only point out that your use of the words 'exactly' and 'approximately' are mutually contradictory.

[7] The Moon’s magnetic field is about 1/100th that of Earth measured in teslas.

The Moon has no global magnetic field; all effects are local. Or is the word 'tesla' the magic word here?

Are these random coincidences, or natural and fully explainable by science?

They are all explainable by science, although, as usual, there is a certain amount of randomness involved.

Are they signs of divine interference of some sort?

Absolutely not. (You are welcome to praise your personal deity (-es) for His/Her/Its/Their handiwork, but none of the above is evidence for said deity (-es) existence.)

Does the relationship between the Earth and the Moon reflect some universal dynamics evident throughout our solar system or the Universe-- or is this unique?

The dynamics of the Earth-Moon system are the result of universal physical laws that apply-- to the best of our current knowledge-- throughout the Universe. It is unique only in so far as our particular species has evolved here in such a way as to appreciate it.

And if it is God who is behind it, how did he do it?

Although theology is not my specialty, I believe the currently accepted answer among the Orthodox of all Faiths is: 'through the application of the natural laws He/She/It/They created.'

DJW001
reply to post by Utnapisjtim

 

Wow, it's been a while since someone posted this list of supposed anomalies. Usually, it's part of an attempt to prove that the Moon is really a spaceship. Anyway, here goes....

Strictly speaking, objects like the Moon and the Earth are natural spaceships

[1] The lunar month matches the human ovulation cycle.

Probably due to the fact that human beings evolved on Earth. There may be survival advantage involved in a reproductive cycle that allows offspring to be born during periods of bounty.

Ovulation can happen anywhere during the female fertility cycle, but the cycle itself is equal in length to the Lunar cycle. I can't see how this should have any survival advantages.

[2] The Moon and the Sun appears to be the same size in the sky, 30 arc minutes or half an arc degree across.

This is only temporary. As has been pointed out, the Moon is spiraling away.

With about an inch and a half each year. Modern man has lived and wondered about science and the divine for the last 300,000 years, in that time the Moon has moved 11.4 km away from us. Hardly enough to add a hair's width to the relative size of the Moon.

[3] The Moon’s spin equals it’s orbit around Earth, so the Moon’s appearance is always the same seen from Earth (synchronous rotation).

This is the norm for natural satellites. It is due to a phenomenon known as 'tidal locking.'

Indeed.

[4] The Moon's axis cross the ecliptic on a straight angle, off by only 1.5°.

This is probably due to the Earth and Moon sharing a common origin, with angular momentum being conserved.

Well, it's not that simple. The Earth has a 23° tilt, perhaps because we once crashed with the Moon, and while the Moon settled it's wobble rather quickly due to it's much lesser mass, the Earth is still struggling with getting it's tail stright.

[5] The full Moon always rise at Sunset, the new Moon always rise at Sunrise.

That is because the full Moon is always, by definition, located 180 degrees away from the Sun. Incidentally, there can be regional variations due to irregular landscape features, etc.

Actually, no. Somehow the full Moon is at a straight line with the Earth at these times. It could have been any other time of the day. However, when the Sun sets one place on Earth, it rises another place. Trick question

[6] A Saros is a period of exactly 223 Synodic months, after which the Sun, Earth, and Moon return to approximately the same relative geometry.

I need only point out that your use of the words 'exactly' and 'approximately' are mutually contradictory.

No, because relatively, they speak of two different things. The cycle is exactly 223 Synodic months, while the geometry of the objects involved relative to the backdrop of Stars is not entirely equal.

[7] The Moon’s magnetic field is about 1/100th that of Earth measured in teslas.

The Moon has no global magnetic field; all effects are local. Or is the word 'tesla' the magic word here?

My guess is that Nikola Tesla used the field of the Moon compared to the Earth as a constant in his magnetic metre Tesla, much the same way Celcius used the freezing- and boiling point of water. Hoped someone would figure that out without dreaming up something that looks like science to disprove it. Another trick question (though I only suspect this, so not exactly sure)

Are these random coincidences, or natural and fully explainable by science?

They are all explainable by science, although, as usual, there is a certain amount of randomness involved.

Some of them are also explained by common sense and lunacy

Are they signs of divine interference of some sort?

Absolutely not. (You are welcome to praise your personal deity (-es) for His/Her/Its/Their handiwork, but none of the above is evidence for said deity (-es) existence.)

In my world, our Universe or Multiverse is/are expressions of God's thinking. Order exists, since God is all about reason and rationality. However, this reason and rationality can be understood and aquired as knowledge, thus humans can experience the mindset of this God/Universe, hence there are people who at given times can be like God, if only until they have to go to the toilet and get confused again. Still, to me, God is evident throughout the world as universal laws of nature, his common sense probably reflecting his own Universe/Multiverse in his density. I also believe a quark can contain universes/multiverses.

Does the relationship between the Earth and the Moon reflect some universal dynamics evident throughout our solar system or the Universe-- or is this unique?

The dynamics of the Earth-Moon system are the result of universal physical laws that apply-- to the best of our current knowledge-- throughout the Universe. It is unique only in so far as our particular species has evolved here in such a way as to appreciate it.

My guess too, only spiced up with a touch of the divine on top to trigger philosophy and search for universal truths with the human species.

And if it is God who is behind it, how did he do it?

Although theology is not my specialty, I believe the currently accepted answer among the Orthodox of all Faiths is: 'through the application of the natural laws He/She/It/They created.'

God (or his given representatives) would probably have done it much the same way we would do it had our technology allowed it already, but we still have a way to go. Seeing how humans are starting to entertain the thought of terra-forming Mars, such a process would ultimately be quite similar to the events demontrated in the opening chapter of Genesis. In the 21st century Genesis 1 actually seems like a rational way of trans-forming a new world under a new sky....

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

According to www.universetoday.com... you could fit all the planets of our solar system between the Earth and the Moon.

Planet Average Diameter (km)
Mercury 4,879
Venus 12,104
Mars 6,771
Jupiter 139,822
Saturn 116,464
Uranus 50,724
Neptune 49,244
Total 380,008

The average distance from the Earth to the Moon is 384,400 km. And check it out, that leaves us with 4,392 km to spare.

So what could we do with the rest of that distance? Well, we could obviously fit Pluto into that slot. It’s around 2,300 km across. Which leaves us about 2,092 km to play with. We could fit one more dwarf planet in there (not Eris though, too big).

So, that's all the planets with 4 392 km to spare. In comparison, the Earth's diameter is 12 742 kilometres or 7 918 miles according to Wikipedia.

That's not a moon, that's a space station
a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Also.... you should include the drake equation.
Because on TOP of all those "coincidences"...
It's there to be Observed by an intelligent form of life.... us.... the ONLY form of intelligent life we know of in the entire universe....
To observe, measure, and ponder on..
a reply to: prevenge

originally posted by: prevenge
That's not a moon, that's a space station
a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Indeed. Have you ever seen footage of the Moon from the side? I mean, we've all seen the front, it shines towards us every day, and has done so for as long as there have been humans at least, and after the Apollo missions and the rest of it, we've seen the far side. But I have yet to come over a picture showing the Moon in profile, from its sides. Have you? Is the Moon egg shaped? What are they hiding?

the sun and the moon 'appear' to be the same size. However the moon is pretty much 1/400th the size of the sun and pretty much 1/400th the distance away. So they look a similar size.
We know that the moon used to be alot closer, and it's getting further away, we just happen to be lucky to be alive whilst there is this apparent similarity.
I say lucky but actually our environment here on earth has changed, due to the presence of the moon. When it was a lot closer the tides were a lot higher. Life as we know it today would not have been possible a few billion years ago, and will not be possible in a few billion years time. The fact that we are here now isn't coincidence - this is the right time for us to be aible to live here. Life evolved at the time when circumstances were correct for life to carry on living (if that makes sense)

You might argue that 'life' was planted on this planet at the right time by some external influence, or you might argue that random electrical pulses happened to spark something off. either way it's safe to assume that the external influence was timed, or the random electrical pulses kept happening without making life until circumstances were right.
the rest is history.

originally posted by: CrastneyJPR
the sun and the moon 'appear' to be the same size. However the moon is pretty much 1/400th the size of the sun and pretty much 1/400th the distance away. So they look a similar size.

Indeed.

We know that the moon used to be alot closer, and it's getting further away, we just happen to be lucky to be alive whilst there is this apparent similarity.

Well, as I said earlier in this thread, the Moon moves away from Earth, with «about an inch and a half each year. Modern man has lived and wondered about science and the divine for the last 300,000 years, in that time the Moon has moved 11.4 km away from us. Hardly enough to add a hair's width to the relative size of the Moon.»

So, for as long as modern man has existed, the Moon has appeared the same size as now.

Another important thing to take into consideration is that the Moon doesn't really orbit the earth in circular motion. It's path along with Earth is heliacal, like a serpent the Moon is trailing after the Earth, spiralling along in a circular, but heliacal motion. In fact, much the same could be said about the whole solar system as the solar-system moves around the centre of the Milky Way at a staggering speed, though almost unnoticeable to us due to the enormous scales involved. Now to illustrate this, I will enter an area sadly populated by tons of really bad science and straight out fantasy. But I find the illustrative gif discussed in the following article about the solar system's helical dynamics intriguing, and before the debunker-wolves start howling, consider the following...

«The most basic notion that the planets trace helical paths through space is perfectly correct.» (Rhys Taylor)

And by no means, I am not an authority on astronomy or physics, but I consider myself an amateur natural philosopher.

Gif of how the Solar System moves through space ==> 4.bp.blogspot.com... (made by Rhys Taylor, from the article linked below).

...and like Jason Major writes, Taylor remarks in his analysis, that he finds it odd that the idea about planets following heliacal paths around the Sun should go viral, because it's rather obvious. By no means do I refer to some breaking new understanding, this is just about how science' cosmology has been at least the last century or so. Well, the article is a good read, I'll just leave you to it:

==> www.universetoday.com... -- «Is the Solar System Really a Vortex?»

In Job 25:5 the grandeur of the Lord who “Makes peace in the heights” is praised and the time is mentioned “before [there was] a moon and it did not shine.” Also in Psalm 72:5 it is said: “Thou wast feared since [the time of] the sun and before [the time of] the moon,

The Indians of the Bogota highlands in the eastern Cordilleras of Colombia relate some of their tribal reminiscences to the time before there was a moon.

The Kalevala of the Finns recalls a time “when the Moon was placed in orbit.” (Rune III.35)]

Apollonius of Rhodes mentioned the time “when not all the orbs were yet in the heavens,

a reply to: douglas5

There was a Moon and a Sun, but since the sky was, supposedly, constantly covered in thick clouds, only their light was observable, not the circles they draw with their appearance. And arguably, people back then lived under a firmament of ice, illustrated like a dome-- and this apparently lasted until the Great Flood, when this ice-globe fell down and melted, and the 'waters of heaven', the Shamayim, all came down, creating the Flood. Supposedly, after the Flood, the clouds broke up, and for the first time people witnessed the rainbow, the "Ha-qeseth", and in extension-- for the first time these humans witnessed direct sunlight.

Whether this Biblical exegesis on the pre-Flood world is true scientifically, I am not the right man to sort out, but it does sort of make sense, IF there is anything truth in it, and not just some allegorical metaphor meant to inspire people and serve as some sort of unified agreement, doctrine.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Many ancient texts speak of a brighter Moon than the sun Ginsburg legend of the Jews same with the Japanese in the Nihongi Chronicles and the Babylonian astronomers also stated this

it's no surprise the moon is so revered and worshipped all around the world. such a wonderful set of circumstances allow it's existence. it is, uniquely, our Luna.

a reply to: douglas5

Care to extrapolate? Like sighting references so I can check your claims up to a written source of some kind? I never heard of this before. How can the Moon be brighter than the Sun, unless you switch the names around?

a reply to: Utnapisjtim


varchive.org...

a reply to: douglas5

To refute the claim made about Genesis and Numbers, supposedly saying that the two lights were of equal brightness, and different in size, this doesn't compute. Genesis 1:16 says:

And God made the two great lights—the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night—and the stars. [ESV] Genesis 1:16

Here the Moon and the Sun are called "the two great lights" and further, "the greater light (Sun) to rule the day, and the lesser light (Moon) to rule the night". If the Moon was to be understood as "just as bright" as the Sun, then why would it rule the night, and not turn night into day? In Genesis 1:5 we learn that the Night-- is darkness.

Further the verse referred to in Numbers is not about the Moon or the Sun at all, but about the sacrifice of a male goat:

Also one male goat for a sin offering to the LORD; it shall be offered besides the regular burnt offering and its drink offering. [ESV] Numbers 28:15

So seeing how they treat their "sources" I can only assume this is all bollocks.

Rabbi Simeon ben Pazzi (some name "patsy", eh?) says the following speaking as the Moon:

"Of what use is a lamp in broad daylight?" Hullin 60b

The lamp of no use in broad daylight here, is the Moon.

I suggest you check the sources when you refer to such "groundbreaking" discoveries. This is all bollocks as far as I can see.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

varchive.org... it was there i read about it varchive.org... maybe a Jewish bible translation

a reply to: douglas5

I checked the Hebrew, and there is nothing suggesting the Moon ever having been brighter than the Sun.

So case dismissed. Check mate.