Time for a mass redistribution of wealth

onequestion
reply to post by thesaneone

 

Answer my question dont have an emtional response.

Not sure what you mean by emotional response. but I only expect the rewards of my labor nothing more nothing less.

So what kind of person am I?

"Keep the change ya filthy animal." - the duke

spiritualzombie
I think 1% is an easy one to identify.

Spooky, dude. Very spooky!

ID who you think has too much. Take it away. Redistribute via gov't channels. They screw it up as usual. Then next thing you know it'll be the 5% who get their property and finances stolen from them. Then it'll be the 10%. Then it'll be EVERYONE and the corrupt gov't will be 'redistributing' it.

Ever read Dr. Zhivago?
Or 'We the Living' by Ayn Rand?

Go read up and get back to us.
You'll see how spooky that thought process is.

So do I think people 'deserve' getting trophies for showing up in life ?

Hell no.

The problem with social engineers among many is they have created the worlds largest zoo.

Government is its 'care giver'.

They say at the zoos,,' Don't feed the wildlife' because they can't ever return to the wild.

But they have no problems doing that out in the real world..

Engineering the world to suit the individual INSTEAD of the people doing what we have done for thousands of years.

EVOLVE.

What we have seen in current day modern America is the DE-EVOLUTION of mankind.

The people like to think themselves top of the food chain.

Don't see it especially when they look to government to provide for their every wish.

Any other time people pull for minority rights.
Last time I checked 1% of the population is a minority.
Funny how life works.

reply to post by spiritualzombie

Raising minimum wage is just one tiny political step. But the support should be in finding ways to pull more money from the wealthy, while EDUCATING THE WORLD on the dangers of greed. We should identify greed as an addiction or mental illness and not applaud it but ask "What's wrong with you? Why are you holding onto this all for yourself? Did you rise to such heights all for yourself?" This is a mental problem. It's extremely dangerous

thereby increasing the cost of goods and services, raising inflation and wiping out the effect of rising the minimum wage. One US restautrant shut when the forced pay raise of it's staff put it's prices up so high no-one would eat there.

It doesn't occur to you that maybe a fair number of the one percent actually earned that money by being a super producer, providing an organisation that employs thousands of people and produces a desired product that improves the life of people around them. Take away the reward, and you remove incentive to super produce. Why are they responsible for the failures of others? Exaclty how many people are they responsible for? Who decides who gets what?

Basically this is why communism always ended up in the toilet. The masses need the selfish high earners to organise the production of wealth, it's how they make their money (neither just appear by magic) which is why communists states had to treat all their high achievers like prisoners, each one was critical. 'Redistribution' generally means taking something people have earned and giving it to people that haven't. This totally demotivates people who create wealth (what's the point it gets taken) and the lower earners from trying to acheive ( why bother, it'll get handed to me for nothing).

The core problem is that people think that wealth is some pre existing pie that some people are taking an unfair chunk of. It's not that, most high acheivers create wealth by organising efficient work systems so high acheivers usualluy actually create the wealth they enjoy. It's not unfair they have more.

Yours was the standard post by someone who doesn't understand the function of business in an economy, and unfamiliar with why communism failed.

I recommend you read a couple of pages (Jesus, not the whole thing) from 'Atlas' shrugged. The description of how the 20th century car company folded due to communist ideaology. It's basically why redistribution and expecting other people to be responsible for the welfare of others doesn't work. In a nutshell.

Find it here ;
thesnarkwhohuntsback.wordpress.com... i/

people would better be able to understand the issue, if we likened it to intellectual property. your writings, inventions, musings, artwork, privacy to your words and thoughts and freedom to believe or not believe, whatever you want. if someone steals your intellectual property such as spying on you or forcing you to believe a certain world view on threat of death or artifically induced hardship, you would be infuriated.

if someone claimed that your intellectual efforts were their efforts instead, you would be frustrated and begin psychoanalyzing their rationale. there is very little difference between intellectual effort and physical effort. these are decisions you should be able to make autonomously and they should be considered your efforts until you agree to relinquish them to someone else, and that agreement should not be on threat of death or other hardship you aren't willing to agree to enduring.

however, when you agree to endure natural hardship in order to elevate your standard of living and then someone else, who hasn't agreed to endure any hardship, takes what you have earned by hardship without your permission or on threat of death or further artificially induced hardship, that tends to ruffle feathers.

redistribution by force of law, is the wrong approach. i haven't entirely decided what the right approach is, but it definitely is not stealing / taking by force or under pain of death or via artificially induced hardship.

reply to post by spiritualzombie

Well, unfortunately its not a game and you'd be talking about a violent confrontation I'd bet with all the wealthy folks to get them to give up their money agreeably-voluntarily. That will never happen with them.

Take from the rich and give to the poor? Nice in theory and I know it worked for Robin Hood, but this isnt Sherwood Forest. The "Merry Men" in Sherwood had to do a lot of killing to get them the rich's...riches.

So many arguments to defend greed. So many arguments to say 1% controlling 99% is a fair system.

It's like that line from Frodo (paraphrasing), "What you would say would sound like wisdom, but for the warning in my heart."

You don't need to overthink this to see the injustice in this system.

Greed is winning the hearts of the poor by convincing them that there is greatness in the pursuit of self., and that only "jealous" people have a problem with greed.

spiritualzombie
So many arguments to defend greed. ...

.... and that's what YOU are doing, but you don't realize it. You are defending greed ... defending the theft of what isn't yours ... defending turning working people into slaves to the state ... defending a corrupt government taking control of all finances and all private property. THAT is greed.

It's the 0.001% that have had the power to issue debt to nations as their central bankers--beyond any audit power--and who have magically, after 200 years or so, managed to gain control of most nations' gov'ts, most international corporations, most universities, all large non-profit Foundations, and all mainstream media. They control the military-industrial complexes, the major intelligence agencies, the monitors of web traffic. Their wealth and power exceeds that of any nation.

Any nation--much less any individual--that confronts them will face economic ruin and if that isn't enough, they will have a revolution or a war to deal with. Individual trouble makers are handled like Andrew Breitbart, JFK, Lincoln, the Czars of Russia, and Larry McDonald.

A revolt against them would just be a good excuse for massive depopulation--which they admit to desiring.

spiritualzombie
So many arguments to defend greed. So many arguments to say 1% controlling 99% is a fair system.

It's like that line from Frodo (paraphrasing), "What you would say would sound like wisdom, but for the warning in my heart."

You don't need to overthink this to see the injustice in this system.

Greed is winning the hearts of the poor by convincing them that there is greatness in the pursuit of self., and that only "jealous" people have a problem with greed.

it isn't defense of greed it's defense of being able to own your labor, your own energy. it's your body, your labor, your energy. i realize you're thinking like a borg queen or something, but you're wrong. for example, since it's your body, someone else should not be able to rape it by force of law or under any other extenuating circumstances. there are many forms of violence, and all of them resolve down to taking the property of others, which includes their energy.

You do realize that unless you are advocating to literally storm the banks and 'take' their money, that the only other way is through legislation, yes?

Which means passing laws......laws that require politicians to introduce and get passed. Politicians that have had their pockets lined by the very people you wish to take the wealth from......

Not going to happen.

Even if by some miracle, legislation is going to be passed to take the money from the wealthy, do you think they would sit by and stand for it?

No. They'll simply move their money where the US government can't touch it. They'll close down their businesses here, move them overseas to countries that are not going to try and take their money from them.

Be compelled because they are US citizens? All they will do is renounce their US citizenship and become a citizen of another country (one that will love to have their money there).

So what do you have after that? A country where all the wealthy have left with their money, left with their business, removed any of their investments, and pretty much told this country to kiss their butt.

Now you have a place where everyone is poor. So sure, no inequality there. No money......no investments being made.....but a government that will still tax you, and expect that money to be there.

So again.....you're not going to get their money. Or at least not too much of it. The ones that can afford it will simply take their wealth and leave here, the instant they see the writing on the wall.

We've seen this throughout history.......the French Revolution........the Bolshevik Revolution......the Nazi party.....the Chinese Revolution of 1949.....the Cuban revolution......North Vietnam.........

Either wealth was taken through violence or legislation (sometimes both).......and many of the wealthy simply fled.......or look at it now....

Are those places paradise?

Is there no "wealth inequality" in those places now?

Grabbing other people's money and making laws to prevent people from having more than they have (sorry, you are no longer allowed to come up with an idea and capitalize on it. Anything you now produce, be it an idea, a product or a service, now belongs to the People.), do you really think that it will make everyone happy?

I'm pretty sure it won't. In fact, I'm pretty sure that history and the way the world is right now, shows us that this never works out too well.

So what's the solution? I'm not sure. But I'm pretty sure I don't want to live in a country where anything that you work hard for can be simply taken from you, just because others think you have too much.

FlyersFan

spiritualzombie
So many arguments to defend greed. ...

.... and that's what YOU are doing, but you don't realize it. You are defending greed ... defending the theft of what isn't yours ... defending turning working people into slaves to the state ... defending a corrupt government taking control of all finances and all private property. THAT is greed.

Too right!

If they think greed, and materialism are traits unique ONLY to the evil rich.?

They are definatey blinded by their own bigotry.

spiritualzombie
This psychosis of greed may even destroy the world if it's allowed.

Says the guy/gal asking for money not earned to go to those who had not earned it...has all the hallmarks of a greed just a bit more perverse and stealthy.

Time for a massive change. I vote for a mass redistribution of wealth.

edit on 30-1-2014 by spiritualzombie because: (no reason given)

Lets say we redistribute the wealth...which you will have to do by FORCE mind you...lets say you give gobs of money to everyone indiscriminately...what guarantee or even evidence is there that people will not squander that money once again....back into the current situation...People have had their lives ruined by winning the lottery...A fool and his money are easily parted and because the educational system in this country doesn't teach finances, investing, assets management etc....this country is overflowing with fools...

SO REALLY what wealth re-distribution would do is ROB people of their values that they will in turn have to earn back again while others spend it wastefully...

That is a circus...

The middle class is the majority...and unfortunately they have a mentality that keeps them from being wealthy because they would then become the ENEMY...they wouldn't dare allow themselves wealth as they have the concept of wealth tethered to "greed" and "evil"...

Unfortunately this same middle-class mentality abhors wealth because its a reminder of their status...they would rather everyone be equally as miserable as they so they wouldn't have to acknowledge it anymore...

I am middle class by the way...no where near "wealthy"...but I see the pitfalls of the mentality that keeps me in the middle class...its the pitfall mentality that would have me spending my energy on tearing people down and dissolving accomplishments rather than spending my energy building my own accomplishments and wealth...

its the mentality that makes people think its a better investment to steal the wealth of others than to earn their own...what they want they THINK is impossible and there for....IS...but only for them.

One last note on wealth redistribution...this was attempted back in ~1916...it was the income tax amendment...it was passed because the majority thought it would only apply to the wealthy...obviously that backfired and now the majority get taxed way more than the wealthy...

This was essentially the first declaration of WAR on the wealthy trying to USE government...and they have been losing ever since. Now that the wealthy USE government its a crime against humanity?? None of this would be an issue anyway if the government would abide by the limits imposed onto it within the constitution.

It seems anymore that people seem to think they are entitled to a wealthy rich lifestyle...because its promoted and advertised on TV as the american dream...that anything less than riches and they are being "cheated" by those who have accomplished it...

Now...having said that...the entire economical situation has become a bit of a circus in and of itself...we have fiat currency that is traded and taxed at every turn creating debt where it can never be paid back because the interest is never printed into existence...

We have governments passing laws legislating people to purchase certain services guaranteeing business to certain industries (insurance) with minimal fear of failure...this is not FREE MARKET this is ludicrous...

The government itself contracts with industries for certain services that entitle said industry to GUARANTEED business because people will pay their taxes at the end of a barrel...

The real problem is that the limitations set in place to keep things like this from happening were gradually ignored, forgotten or amended by "progressive" geniuses who change things just for the sake of changing things...

A truly free market was given an execution notice in 1916...

reply to post by Tusks


Damn, you summed it up pretty good.

Whenever I read threads like this, I like to remember what my father taught me when I was growing up:

1) You can take all the money from all the people in the world and put it in one big pile. Line every one up and pass out an equal amount to each and every person. At the end of one week, the people who had the money before will have the money again and the people who had little to nothing before will have little or nothing again; and,
2) Take all of the troubles each person is experiencing and put them all in one big pile. Line every one up and start to distribute them equally across the board. Before you finish the first two people, those two people will loudly protest and demand (to the point of violence) to have their original situation, troubles included, restored.

Bunch of whine, deserving of the very best cheese...

totallackey
Whenever I read threads like this, I like to remember what my father taught me when I was growing up:

1) You can take all the money from all the people in the world and put it in one bog pile. Line every one up and pass out an equal amount to each and every person. At the end of one week, the people who had the money before will have the money again and the people who had little to nothing before will have little or nothing again; and,
2) Take all of the troubles each person is experiencing and put them all in one big pile. Line every one up and start to distribute them equally across the board. Before you finish the first two people, those two people will loudly protest and demand (to the point of violence) to have their original situation, troubles included, restored.

Bunch of whining, deserving of the very best cheese...

My dad used to say exactly the same thing about the money. As I've got to middle age and seen my idiot friends with higher incomes than me get into debt while my saving and investments grow, I've realised he was right.

thesaneone

spiritualzombie
but it should be where we ALL win.

This is what irks me with some people, why should we all win? Should we all be winners even if we don't deserve it or earn it. Who chooses the losers? You?

Well, we don't have to all win. But can we have empathy for losers? Can we help them? I believe we can do so much more. It's a philosophy really. I'm not religious but supposedly Jesus helped heal lepers, even though it wasn't his problem, even though the lepers may have gotten there through mistakes of their own, he helped them. He believed in feeding people, caring about people, above all LOVE. It's not like he ever said "Why should I have to die for THEIR sins?"

totallackey
Whenever I read threads like this, I like to remember what my father taught me when I was growing up:

1) You can take all the money from all the people in the world and put it in one big pile. Line every one up and pass out an equal amount to each and every person. At the end of one week, the people who had the money before will have the money again and the people who had little to nothing before will have little or nothing again; and,
2) Take all of the troubles each person is experiencing and put them all in one big pile. Line every one up and start to distribute them equally across the board. Before you finish the first two people, those two people will loudly protest and demand (to the point of violence) to have their original situation, troubles included, restored.

Bunch of whine, deserving of the very best cheese...

edit on 30-1-2014 by totallackey because: misspelling

You would've done well to have taken your father's advice and applied 5 minutes thought to it.
Because everyone who has money now, earned it through their own hard work, right? And everyone who is suffering deserves it.
Some people.
smh