Time for a mass redistribution of wealth

Antigod

AlwaysIdeaMan

ketsuko
reply to post by AlwaysIdeaMan

 

My husband is reasonably successful, but he worked hard to get there and took quite a few risks along the way. I suppose you can call the risks paying off LUCK, but he still had to have the gumption to take the risks in the first place.

He started with $50 and bicycle when his own father abruptly moved after the death of his mother leaving him to either move too or fend for himself. He chose the latter. Huge risk.

When he graduated, he didn't have a job opportunity. He flipped burgers and worked odd jobs in various labs until he managed to get a contract job at a nearby military base that become a GS position. Then, he got offered a temp to hire shot at a big corporation _if_ he could pull up stakes be there in a week and a half with no guarantee of permanent employment. We did it. Huge risk.

Since then, he's worked his way up the ladder by taking on positions that need fixing and taking projects that no one else wants and making them work. All huge risks.

Now, you can argue that it was all just luck, but he was never a passive actor in any of it. All of it involved seeing the opportunities and assessing his chances and going for it. It has paid off and he's more than doubled his initial salary in his time at his career. But it was an active process. No one saw his worth, he promoted it and made it stand out.

He was lucky. He had a body that let him stand all day, was selected for the job near the base (what of the guys who applied and were NOT hired?), was offered the OPPORTUNITY to pull up stakes and fill a position, had the OPPORTUNITY to take fix-up positions and jobs nobody wanted, and though he DID do things with the LUCK he had, he would not be where he is today if his body was incapable, was not the selected candidate, had no opportunity to prove himself.

Just saying.

Lucky to be healthy. Everything else seems to be acheived through constant pressure and willingness to jump at events.

If you have events with opportunity to jump at, sure. But you need luck to be in the right place at the right time to do any jumping.

AlwaysIdeaMan
Why? Just making that statement is...kinda pointless without something to back it up with.
Please, elaborate.

Free energy does nothing to account for time or ability...two crucial pieces in determining product 'value'. As long as we have differing 'values' we require trade, and therefor a trade medium...aka, money.

zeroBelief

AlwaysIdeaMan

zeroBelief

AlwaysIdeaMan

zeroBelief


I've been reading about "all those awful people with MONEY" and about how we should all be warned of the "evils of greed"...

Funny, I was raised in a Capitalist society.

Everyone has the same chance (with the exceptions which we as a culture are working on, such as Obama using equal pay for women as a stomping point) to make a living here in the US as everyone else.

I am a HS dropout. I have a GED. I have 45 college credits under my belt. I earn a good living for my family. Why?

BECAUSE I WASN'T SATISFIED WITH THE OPTIONS I HAD PREVIOUSLY MADE FOR MYSELF.

So what did I do? I CHANGED my options.

I'm hearing alot of young folks today chanting about how evil greed is. How we should redistribute wealth.

What utter BS.


Of course, greed, in as much as going so far as not doing your part socially, is bad. But, wanting more for you, yourself, and your family? MAKING something out of yourself?

No, this is an altruistic pipe dream that leads right into the hands of socialists and communism.

Redistribution of wealth? Are F$%ing kidding me?


EQUAL share of the pain. We all pay the same tax percentage. We all get the same legal opportunities.

Read Malcolm Gladwell's Outliers to grasp the fact that "success" is mostly a matter of LUCK. Right place, right time. If you think we all have equal opportunity, you are kidding yourself.

Rather than "redistributing" wealth, redefine it. Remove the barriers to survival (exchanging products of human energy to survive) and eliminate money, defining wealth as good character, friendships, accomplishments, and other social currencies. (See my post, page 8, bottom post.)

Luck. Sure.

Luck that I *MADE*.

Had I not cracked a book. Had I not accessed everything I could on the early stages of the internet. Had I not spent hours working on a program and shown a friend the problem I was having...he NEVER would have been impressed enough in my abilities to go talk to the President of the company he worked for and get me an interview.

Luck, is BS. We MAKE our own luck.

Luck is walking down the street, and stumbling into someone who says "Hey, would you like to interview to be the next Justin Beiber?"

And guess what, that doesn't happen.


So, you go ahead. Believe that luck is "just going to happen, or not happen to you". We'll see how far you and others get in life.

I have a family and we're comfortable.

Because I *MADE* my own luck.



Oh, and good luck with your commune ideals on "personal wealth" and trade based off of strength of character. It's worked out SO well in the past, SO many times whenever it's been tried.

Go right on ahead.

edit on 31-1-2014 by zeroBelief because: (no reason given)

Ahhhh. So those with bodies that can't do work can MAKE jobs for themselves? What if you had no access books? Weren't you lucky that you did? What if you had no access to the web? Weren't you lucky that you did? What if you had no friends who understood what you had or had a boss that might be interested? Weren't you lucky that you did? What if the boss wasn't interested in hiring anybody? Weren't you lucky he was? I guess you MADE all this luck yourself.

Yes, we can use the luck we get, but to say that luck is not present in success is absurd.

What if, a meteor hit me on the way to the interview? What if, I was born without fingers and couldn't type? What if, I was actually a simpleton and couldn't program? What if, I didn't have the drive to make something better of myself?

I spent years bartending, waiting tables, and managing retail stores. I got SICK and TIRED of feeling my brain dripping out my ear. I bought a used computer. I bought books. I paid for my AOL access to the internet at the time.

I *TAUGHT* myself Visual Basic.

A friend, who I didn't know was a programmer, saw what I was doing, started asking questions...and was thoroughly impressed with my understanding and comprehension of logic.


Sorry bub, but if I have to, I'll say it again....

I MADE MY OWN DAMNED LUCK.

So, you keep on spreading out good will to the cosmos...I'm sure "The Secret" will save your butt when you least expect it. Or, spend your child's milk money on lotto tickets. Hey, you've got luck on your side. And it's like a slot machine, they all eventually pay out, don't they?

Yeah, you enjoy it when "luck" comes your way.

Clearly you cannot grasp the luck you have had. You keep on keeping on, dude.

And all the snideness is unnecessary, really.

reply to post by zeroBelief


You lack the humility to see all the places where luck was on your side.

I know similar stories to yours, but a humble man knows the universe, God, luck, or fortunate circumstance allowed for things to happen to get you to where you are. For instance, whatever got you to even consider Visual Basic. This idea of luck doesn't even need to be discussed really. Definitely not debated. You've never looked at the world and thought about how lucky you are to have been born where you were born?

You may have used luck to your advantage. You built upon it, you seized the moment. Good for you, but have some humility, man.

Some people are hit with some really rough patches. Some people just have problems. Have some empathy.

zeroBelief

AlwaysIdeaMan

Antigod

spiritualzombie
reply to post by AlwaysIdeaMan

 

It's a really good point, that any humble person should accept.

I work my ass off like everyone else, but luck plays an undeniable roll.

Too many people subscribe to this theory that the super wealthy worked their asses off, the poor do not, and anyone who works as hard as the super wealthy can get there too. It's great to have a strong work ethic but also be humble and understand luck plays a role.

You need to work smart and hard to get rich. Scrubbing floors 12 hrs a day won't make anyone rich. Duh

Luck doesn't really pay a role, it's the ability to recognize opportunities and jump at them that's the critical thing. You also need to be willing to take risks and able to bounce back when you fail.

Only a moron thinks that anyone working hard can get rich.

And aren't you LUCKY to have opportunity come your way? Bill Gates was lucky to have a mom who worked at a place that had a computer lab they let him work in. Yes this lucky opportunity allowed him to develop his understanding of computers, but he was DAMNED lucky to have the opportunity.

You are really kind of desperately clutching at the same straw, over and over...realize that?

edit on 31-1-2014 by zeroBelief because: (no reason given)

Good counter argument.

Whatever.

AlwaysIdeaMan

Clearly you cannot grasp the luck you have had. You keep on keeping on, dude.

And all the snideness is unnecessary, really.

The snideness, is because you are ridiculously clinging to some made up religion called "luck"....

The wonderful thing about the country we live in, is that if you truly want to make a change in your life, YOU CAN.

But it takes ACTION on your part. Action that the vast unwashed masses are unwilling to put the effort into. And instead, whine, moan, and complain.

But hey, still clinging to luck? Sure. I am lucky. Lucky that genetically I got the roll of the dice with parents who created a clearly superior intelligence in me, their son. Lucky enough to be SMART enough to know that I am in control of my own fate.

So, perhaps we should reinstate eugenics? Or, forced sterilization? Because frankly, if you are so stupid as to believe "luck" has a damned thing to do with anything...or that "luck" is against you...or that "luck" will make things simply happen for you....well....guess what....

You deserve what you get.

And frankly, I am sick and damned tired of supporting your lazy and pathetically unintelligent ass with my hard earned income taxes.


So, go to the street. Pick a corner. Walk up and down between the rows of cars as they stop at the lights. I'm sure you can earn some cash that way. Hell, come up with a sad "luck" story to write in crayon on a discarded piece of cardboard. That surely must help.


OR....


Get smart. CHANGE your life. CHANGE your practices.

And most important...

CHANGE YOUR ATTITUDE.

peck420

AlwaysIdeaMan
Why? Just making that statement is...kinda pointless without something to back it up with.
Please, elaborate.

Free energy does nothing to account for time or ability...two crucial pieces in determining product 'value'. As long as we have differing 'values' we require trade, and therefor a trade medium...aka, money.

90+% of the cost of everything is non-human energy - oil, gas, etc. Free energy would remove those costs. Because we have to bribe (pay) people to do things we need done that they don't really WANT to do, we need money to get these things done. If robots are taking up slack - like in farming, say, where people who love to farm can, but if not enough people love to farm, the robots take the slack - we no longer need that bribery. People will do things they love to do for the simple pleasure of it and for the thanks they might get, the appreciation, the respect, the love, and so on.

You seem to thing we HAVE to place "value" on things. But we now have the tech to place value on accomplishments, ideas, and efforts with SOCIAL currency as payment.

Free energy and robots change the game. IF we see that and use it. We are lucky that we live in a time when we can end the control system of money, and end starvation, poverty, wage/debt slavery, and profiteering.

spiritualzombie
reply to post by zeroBelief

 

You lack the humility to see all the places where luck was on your side.

I know similar stories to yours, but a humble man knows the universe, God, luck, or fortunate circumstance allowed for things to happen to get you to where you are. For instance, whatever got you to even consider Visual Basic. This idea of luck doesn't even need to be discussed really. Definitely not debated. You've never looked at the world and thought about how lucky you are to have been born where you were born?

You may have used luck to your advantage. You built upon it, you seized the moment. Good for you, but have some humility, man.

Some people are hit with some really rough patches. Some people just have problems. Have some empathy.

Universe....Luck....Fortunate Circumstances....

But GOD ?


Oh hell...I'm dealing with a religitard.

Now I know why the logic I'm putting forth simply isn't being heard.

Now I understand.

First we have to have a prayer circle.

And then we have to tithe.

And then....


screw it....I'm going to go have extra marital sex with a known prostitute, use the lords name in vain, defy my father, covet my neighbors wife...etc...etc....


Hmmm. What else can I do.

Anything...before I believe in "luck".

You, dear person...are a moron.

zeroBelief

AlwaysIdeaMan

Clearly you cannot grasp the luck you have had. You keep on keeping on, dude.

And all the snideness is unnecessary, really.

The snideness, is because you are ridiculously clinging to some made up religion called "luck"....

The wonderful thing about the country we live in, is that if you truly want to make a change in your life, YOU CAN.

But it takes ACTION on your part. Action that the vast unwashed masses are unwilling to put the effort into. And instead, whine, moan, and complain.

But hey, still clinging to luck? Sure. I am lucky. Lucky that genetically I got the roll of the dice with parents who created a clearly superior intelligence in me, their son. Lucky enough to be SMART enough to know that I am in control of my own fate.

So, perhaps we should reinstate eugenics? Or, forced sterilization? Because frankly, if you are so stupid as to believe "luck" has a damned thing to do with anything...or that "luck" is against you...or that "luck" will make things simply happen for you....well....guess what....

You deserve what you get.

And frankly, I am sick and damned tired of supporting your lazy and pathetically unintelligent ass with my hard earned income taxes.


So, go to the street. Pick a corner. Walk up and down between the rows of cars as they stop at the lights. I'm sure you can earn some cash that way. Hell, come up with a sad "luck" story to write in crayon on a discarded piece of cardboard. That surely must help.


OR....


Get smart. CHANGE your life. CHANGE your practices.

And most important...

CHANGE YOUR ATTITUDE.

Yup. You're right.

Have a nice life.

reply to post by zeroBelief


Wow, I'm a religitard? I'm not even religious, but I'm a religitard?

Dude, your ego is so out of control. You lack total humility. You lack all respect.

Conservatives, does it ever give you pause-- the audience you attract? Honest question.

AlwaysIdeaMan
90+% of the cost of everything is non-human energy - oil, gas, etc. Free energy would remove those costs. Because we have to bribe (pay) people to do things we need done that they don't really WANT to do, we need money to get these things done. If robots are taking up slack - like in farming, say, where people who love to farm can, but if not enough people love to farm, the robots take the slack - we no longer need that bribery. People will do things they love to do for the simple pleasure of it and for the thanks they might get, the appreciation, the respect, the love, and so on.

So now it is free energy AND robots...

I have to ask, who built the robots?
Who designed them?
How did those people get compensated for their time and ability, since the land of 'free' won't exist until they are complete?

You seem to thing we HAVE to place "value" on things. But we now have the tech to place value on accomplishments, ideas, and efforts with SOCIAL currency as payment.

You mean the same things our current system already values?

I have underlined a very specific part of your statement for a very specific reason...what makes your trade medium better then the current trade medium? (Social currency vs money)

reply to post by spiritualzombie


It is a fair idea....

But it will not work in the real world.

There will always be a 1%. It doesnt matter what you do, it is part of human nature to distribute power to a minority, whether through action or inaction, it is inevitable! Individuals will always having clashing opinions.

The only way to stop this from occurring is for every single individual human being to achieve collective consciousness. That way all individuals are in the same thought process. Humanity acts as a whole, as one!

spiritualzombie
reply to post by zeroBelief

 

Wow, I'm a religitard? I'm not even religious, but I'm a religitard?

Dude, your ego is so out of control. You lack total humility. You lack all respect.

Conservatives, does it ever give you pause-- the audience you attract? Honest question.

My EGO is out of control? Because *I* made things happen in my life? You are laughable, know that ?


If I'm a conservative simply because I pulled myself up by the bootstraps and made a SINCERE change in my life....

With being a HS dropout, a GED, and no college degree...having since worked for world Gov'ts and Major Corporations...

Hmmmm.

Then you are a large breasted 15 year old 5'0 tall Red haired girl with a pension for catholic school girl uniforms, and a special dimension exists wherein you and I can have 100% legal and consensual carnal knowledge of one another.

Oh, and you'll have a beer ready for me when *I'M* finished.

Oh, and my wife won't mind...because, hey, it's a "special dimension".


I'm a "conservative" because I have pride and faith in myself. Because I routinely interview against folks with Master's Degrees and yet I am the one that gets the job.

Because I get things done that others swear up and down cannot be done.



Yepp. I'm conservative.

Oh, and you're cute too, and have freckles ALLLLLL over.....with a nice hip to waist ratio, too....



So, yeah...that's about as correct an assumption about you as your assumption that I am a conservative is about me.




You mentioned "God". I, a non religious person, wouldn't have. Hence, the deduction, not an assumption. If am incorrect in that, then for some reason you are attributing my "luck" that I *MADE* to God...which I thoroughly laugh at.



So...how you feel now, sparky?

peck420

AlwaysIdeaMan
90+% of the cost of everything is non-human energy - oil, gas, etc. Free energy would remove those costs. Because we have to bribe (pay) people to do things we need done that they don't really WANT to do, we need money to get these things done. If robots are taking up slack - like in farming, say, where people who love to farm can, but if not enough people love to farm, the robots take the slack - we no longer need that bribery. People will do things they love to do for the simple pleasure of it and for the thanks they might get, the appreciation, the respect, the love, and so on.

So now it is free energy AND robots...

I have to ask, who built the robots?
Who designed them?
How did those people get compensated for their time and ability, since the land of 'free' won't exist until they are complete?

You seem to thing we HAVE to place "value" on things. But we now have the tech to place value on accomplishments, ideas, and efforts with SOCIAL currency as payment.

You mean the same things our current system already values?

I have underlined a very specific part of your statement for a very specific reason...what makes your trade medium better then the current trade medium? (Social currency vs money)

LOL! Did you read my first post? Page 8, bottom post. Robots have always been part of the solution.

Do you know anybody that would LOVE to build robots? Just for the fun and challenge of it?

Do you know anybody that would LOVE to design robots? Just for the fun and challenge of it?

Do you think they would take thanks and appreciation if they didn't have to worry about surviving? Could live as richly as they chose to?

My bet is that we would not be lacking in people to design and build (and fix) robots.

AlwaysIdeaMan

zeroBelief

AlwaysIdeaMan

Clearly you cannot grasp the luck you have had. You keep on keeping on, dude.

And all the snideness is unnecessary, really.

The snideness, is because you are ridiculously clinging to some made up religion called "luck"....

The wonderful thing about the country we live in, is that if you truly want to make a change in your life, YOU CAN.

But it takes ACTION on your part. Action that the vast unwashed masses are unwilling to put the effort into. And instead, whine, moan, and complain.

But hey, still clinging to luck? Sure. I am lucky. Lucky that genetically I got the roll of the dice with parents who created a clearly superior intelligence in me, their son. Lucky enough to be SMART enough to know that I am in control of my own fate.

So, perhaps we should reinstate eugenics? Or, forced sterilization? Because frankly, if you are so stupid as to believe "luck" has a damned thing to do with anything...or that "luck" is against you...or that "luck" will make things simply happen for you....well....guess what....

You deserve what you get.

And frankly, I am sick and damned tired of supporting your lazy and pathetically unintelligent ass with my hard earned income taxes.


So, go to the street. Pick a corner. Walk up and down between the rows of cars as they stop at the lights. I'm sure you can earn some cash that way. Hell, come up with a sad "luck" story to write in crayon on a discarded piece of cardboard. That surely must help.


OR....


Get smart. CHANGE your life. CHANGE your practices.

And most important...

CHANGE YOUR ATTITUDE.

Yup. You're right.

Have a nice life.

Yepp, I certainly am right....

But hey, you're LUCKY....

And I know that MUST keep you warm at night.

How's that bridge you and your lucky friends are sleeping under ?

combatmaster
reply to post by spiritualzombie

 

It is a fair idea....

But it will not work in the real world.

There will always be a 1%. It doesnt matter what you do, it is part of human nature to distribute power to a minority, whether through action or inaction, it is inevitable! Individuals will always having clashing opinions.

The only way to stop this from occurring is for every single individual human being to achieve collective consciousness. That way all individuals are in the same thought process. Humanity acts as a whole, as one!

Well, there are steps we can do to help it a bit. Raise wages. Get money out of politics. And not have super wealthy b*tch and moan at every piece of legislation that helps the little guy.

AlwaysIdeaMan
My bet is that we would not be lacking in people to design and build (and fix) robots.

You lost your bet.

Per your own words, we already have the technology...yet, no robots and no ideal world? Must be so many stuck in line that nothing is getting done...

You also failed to address the most critical question of my post...what makes your trade medium better then the current trade medium?

combatmaster
reply to post by spiritualzombie

 

It is a fair idea....

But it will not work in the real world.

There will always be a 1%. It doesnt matter what you do, it is part of human nature to distribute power to a minority, whether through action or inaction, it is inevitable! Individuals will always having clashing opinions.

The only way to stop this from occurring is for every single individual human being to achieve collective consciousness. That way all individuals are in the same thought process. Humanity acts as a whole, as one!

No it's not "human nature" to distribute power to a minority. Since we have always had energy scarcity, both human and other energy, we have had to live with the people who have control of that through their luck (and with money, the psychopathic ones who will screw you over for money and power over you).

We just NOW in history have the tools to eliminate control over others in favor of autonomous control of ourselves. Human energy scarcity can be supplemented with robots, and there's all this energy all around us that some of us do know how to pull usable energy from. It's presently not available because the 1% know that their power over us relies on energy scarcity.

It really comes down to personal choice. We don't have to be douchebags. We don't have to be selfish or only care about ourselves. That is a choice.

It's funny, so many people have thought I'm jobless, or I'm gay, or I'm religious, simply because I care about people or show any amount of respect for people who are not like me.

This always stuns me. Like people are supposed to only care about people in their group. But it reminds me of the hive like brain of the Republican party where that really is the case. How they can all unanimously agree on fighting every piece of legislation that Obama supports. And conservatives support this because they only care about their own team, they can't fathom empathy... and right and wrong is not even part of the equation. It's only winning or losing... and Sometimes for them, the country losing, means they win. It's really weird.

I thought we all grew up watching Star Wars and knew the light from the dark-- but as an adult I see the dark side is considered a legitimate political party. Anger, hate, aggression... Just a political stance.

zeroBelief

AlwaysIdeaMan

zeroBelief

AlwaysIdeaMan

Clearly you cannot grasp the luck you have had. You keep on keeping on, dude.

And all the snideness is unnecessary, really.

The snideness, is because you are ridiculously clinging to some made up religion called "luck"....

The wonderful thing about the country we live in, is that if you truly want to make a change in your life, YOU CAN.

But it takes ACTION on your part. Action that the vast unwashed masses are unwilling to put the effort into. And instead, whine, moan, and complain.

But hey, still clinging to luck? Sure. I am lucky. Lucky that genetically I got the roll of the dice with parents who created a clearly superior intelligence in me, their son. Lucky enough to be SMART enough to know that I am in control of my own fate.

So, perhaps we should reinstate eugenics? Or, forced sterilization? Because frankly, if you are so stupid as to believe "luck" has a damned thing to do with anything...or that "luck" is against you...or that "luck" will make things simply happen for you....well....guess what....

You deserve what you get.

And frankly, I am sick and damned tired of supporting your lazy and pathetically unintelligent ass with my hard earned income taxes.


So, go to the street. Pick a corner. Walk up and down between the rows of cars as they stop at the lights. I'm sure you can earn some cash that way. Hell, come up with a sad "luck" story to write in crayon on a discarded piece of cardboard. That surely must help.


OR....


Get smart. CHANGE your life. CHANGE your practices.

And most important...

CHANGE YOUR ATTITUDE.

Yup. You're right.

Have a nice life.

Yepp, I certainly am right....

But hey, you're LUCKY....

And I know that MUST keep you warm at night.

How's that bridge you and your lucky friends are sleeping under ?

Just where do you get off assuming things about me? You think I am poor? Un"successful?"

I have been lucky to have parents that could afford to send me to good schools, and good jobs resulted. But I have a heart, and seeing pictures of people UNLUCKY enough to have been born in places where the children are dying of starvation while buzzards patiently stand by awaiting death moved me to seek a solution for THEM.

You were lucky YOU weren't born there.