Time for a mass redistribution of wealth

TDawgRex
Benefits are earned, whereas Welfare is not. But my Veterans benefits are being chopped to provide for those who have not earned them.

Let me be clear on this.
What I see here is an intentional number game being played to vilify the poor.
Lumping “benefits” in with “welfare” as all are “entitlements”.
We knew that SS was going to get bad because the “baby boomers” were going to retire.
But showing these huge increases in “welfare” by including all “entitlements” together under one heading is obvious propaganda to vilify the poor.

Those with the the money don't like that they are being publicly outed in the press as they are, and this is their game to point the finger at another group to blame them for the economy.

The reality is though, even if real unemployment and welfare is increasing who is to blame?
Is it your middle class neighbor that put them out of work?
Is it the poor?
The president?
The government?
No, its the guys who are doing all the bitching about having to pay for the welfare situation that put those folks out of work. Then they want to complain that there aren't enough of us middle class folks left out there to foot the bill for all of it, meanwhile they skate out the back door with their bonus money heading to their off-shore tax haven...

beezzer

spiritualzombie


Greed destroys the hearts and minds of men, greed inflates its own self worth, and reduces the importance of less fortunate. Greed seeks the pursuit of itself, it is never satisfied, always needs more... It even deifies itself calling itself a Creator. A Job Creator to be worshipped.

Greed also creates empires, civilisations. Greed has two sides. One can benefit by anthers greed.

Children need to be educated on the dangers of greed, in the same way they are educated on gang violence, drugs, and alcohol. They need to have the skills to identify people who suffer from greed vs people who have risen above it. They need this moral compass for the betterment of mankind. It won't save them all, but it will be a good start.

Teach your children as you see fit. I raised mine by being independent. Not to suffer under the definitions, wants, desires of others.


Good night. Movie time and bed.

Cheers.

reply to post by BigJedi
[more

Ambition built the Empires and Civilization....not Greed.

spiritualzombie
So many arguments to defend greed. So many arguments to say 1% controlling 99% is a fair system.

It's like that line from Frodo (paraphrasing), "What you would say would sound like wisdom, but for the warning in my heart."

You don't need to overthink this to see the injustice in this system.

Greed is winning the hearts of the poor by convincing them that there is greatness in the pursuit of self., and that only "jealous" people have a problem with greed.

You are mistaken.

You are under the impression that people having too much money, or "more money than everyone else" is the problem.

It is not.

The problem is the fact that banks around the world have taken direct control over the creation and circulation of many nation's money supplies. That is the problem. Take the power away from groups like the Federal Reserve and the IMF to manipulate "free markets" for their own personal gain.

Our markets are pulled and prodded like puppets who use government to institute regulations that benefit them and only them. Advocating theft is greedy and it does not address the underlying problem--the fox has been set to guard the hen house.

I think doing a bit of research into fractional reserve banking would help you out. Also, research the First and Second Banks of the United States, Andrew Jackson, and Woodrow Wilson.

zeroBelief
...
Flat tax. Make ALL households, all workers, pay taxes. Across the board. No loopholes. No hiding money in offshore accounts. IRA's and FSA's and the like, fine. But any tool beyond those should severely scrutinized.

Wealthy and poor should pay the same amount. The idea that I, who make a little over $100K should pay roughly a third in taxes, is ludicrous..simply because I earn more. Screw that. EVERYONE should pay the SAME percentage. It will balance out, and we'll come out ahead as a nation, able to pay down some of this debt that people feel we can spend our way out of.

Also, the damned country needs to make it a fiscal reality to actually base corporate structures here in the US. Make american products using american workers. The company I work for re-incorporated overseas because it was saving them %15 in taxes annually. When you're talking a MAJORLY multimillion dollar company, guess what, that's no chump change your talking about. The US Gov't needs to make it financially attractive to be based in the US, and fiscally penalizing to base your operations elsewhere.

Oh, and the real slap in the face? The company is BASED outside of the US...but guess where the bulk majority of the work takes place...GOOD OL' USA.

Didn't Mitt Romney only pay 15% on multi-million in earnings when he ran for president in 2012?

There are loop holes that the rich get away with.

I do believe those who earn under the poverty line should be exempt from some taxes. The only way to truly have a flat tax is a national sales tax, however it can be argued that those who buy more will pay more taxes so it isn't truly a flat tax.

neo96
That 17 trillion dollars in debt say I am right.

$17 trillion is the ENTIRE national debt...
Only a fraction of that is due to medicare, social security, or welfare.
You know that you're not supposed to post false info on here, right?

neo96
Since neither program funds itself that created deficits, that gets added to the national debt.

Again, that's because they spent the money giving rich corporations tax breaks and paying off their buddies in the banking, and military industrial complex. The rest of us, we got robbed, excuse us if as a majority we tell them “heck no”, “cough up the money you were paid”, and the wealthy minority doesn't like it.

You know Democracy means that majority of individual people rule, not a minority with the majority of dollars?

neo96
Tax the rich also says I am right.
The multiple Medicare taxes also says I am right.

I have no idea what your talking about here.

neo96
The creation of Myra also says I am right.

No, actually that's more like a guaranteed 401K.
Why was the stock market so high before 2008?
Maybe because all the “baby boomers” money was in there in 401K's.
So what did the wealthy do? They robbed that money out of the market before the “baby boomers” could draw it out to retire on it. The funny thing is that I KNEW this was going to happen back in the 90's, which is why I NEVER got into the 401K program. It was so obvious to me that you were giving the elites a chance to steal your retirement money that it was almost laughable.

neo96
reply to post by zeroBelief

 

Simple fact of the matter is, the wealthy have various tax holes, accountants paid to do NOTHING other than to weasel money away so as to not be available to be taxed...etc.

Well the Huffington Post and CNN say half this country is 'weaseling' out of their tax 'obligations'. and they are not talking about them evil rich.

Now, we also need to question the whole there of "zero tax liability". Are we saying that househoulds (47% mentioned in the second article from CNN) have "zero tax liability". Is this to say they were not taxed at all on their paychecks? That they will owe no additional income tax when they file their taxes at the end of the year? Or that they can expect ALL of their paid income tax back in a refund?

Question it all you want doesn't change the fact most 47% have no federal tax liability. And that is what they mean NONE.

Because they are getting TAX CREDITS, TAX incentives JUST like them evil 1%ers.

If you ask me, this is as misleading of a title for percentages as the tax code to begin with.

Not misleading at all IMO.

Flat tax. Make ALL households, all workers, pay taxes. Across the board. No loopholes. No hiding money in offshore accounts. IRA's and FSA's and the like, fine. But any tool beyond those should severely scrutinized.

I support abolition of the income tax that way some people can't play politics with it.

The only fair tax is no tax at all.

Clean out your ears...because apparently, you are OVERLY excited about the whole 1% thing.....Even Viagra warns you of erections lasting over 4 hrs...calm down....

READ WHAT I SAID...

EVERYONE should pay a FLAT TAX......EVERYONE ONE that works....PERIOD.


Now calm down. Your clinging to your point a little too perilously.

reply to post by defcon5

No, its the guys who are doing all the bitching about having to pay for the welfare situation that put those folks out of work. Then they want to complain that there aren't enough of us middle class folks left out there to foot the bill for all of it, meanwhile they skate out the back door with their bonus money heading to their off-shore tax haven...

Actually, our businesses left the US because of taxation and government interference.

More taxes would only make the problem worse.

Get rid of all internal taxes on income

reply to post by zeroBelief


There should be no taxes, why does everyone support taxes i dont get it?

jrod

zeroBelief
...
Flat tax. Make ALL households, all workers, pay taxes. Across the board. No loopholes. No hiding money in offshore accounts. IRA's and FSA's and the like, fine. But any tool beyond those should severely scrutinized.

Wealthy and poor should pay the same amount. The idea that I, who make a little over $100K should pay roughly a third in taxes, is ludicrous..simply because I earn more. Screw that. EVERYONE should pay the SAME percentage. It will balance out, and we'll come out ahead as a nation, able to pay down some of this debt that people feel we can spend our way out of.

Also, the damned country needs to make it a fiscal reality to actually base corporate structures here in the US. Make american products using american workers. The company I work for re-incorporated overseas because it was saving them %15 in taxes annually. When you're talking a MAJORLY multimillion dollar company, guess what, that's no chump change your talking about. The US Gov't needs to make it financially attractive to be based in the US, and fiscally penalizing to base your operations elsewhere.

Oh, and the real slap in the face? The company is BASED outside of the US...but guess where the bulk majority of the work takes place...GOOD OL' USA.

Didn't Mitt Romney only pay 15% on multi-million in earnings when he ran for president in 2012?

There are loop holes that the rich get away with.

I do believe those who earn under the poverty line should be exempt from some taxes. The only way to truly have a flat tax is a national sales tax, however it can be argued that those who buy more will pay more taxes so it isn't truly a flat tax.

Let's look at it this way.

15% of a $30K annual salary....$4500.

15% of a $100K annual salary.....$15000.

Those earning less, PAY less...but it is proportionately the same.

And if you earn, so, $500K a year...you pay $75K a year in taxes.

Again, the idea is we all share the burden...but, we do it proportionately, which is fair.

reply to post by defcon5


I see where you are coming from and agree to the 99% of it. The rest of it is..."I just don't know." Sad, isn't it?

I think that one thing people are forgetting here is that Government is not a business. It's job is not to make a profit. But many these days see it as such. And we have all seen how well that works out when the Gov't trys to run a business. Not to good it turns out.

I don't mind paying taxes. I'm sure a lot of people would agree with me. But I do mind paying taxes where the money is spent in a frivolous manner, which happens all to often. Which I am sure a lot of people would agree with me on that as well.

Chop a snipload (not all of it) from the Pentagons R&D Black budget and cut ALL pork projects and I would bet that we would be paying down the debt rather quickly. Eliminate the EPA, HUD and other Depts. as well.

Then we could maybe start taking care of our own.

reply to post by onequestion


That would be roads, defence forces, sewerage, clean water, police, and various other things that generally make society work better.

And some things that don't; of course.....but mostly they do.

zeroBelief
[Let's look at it this way.

15% of a $30K annual salary....$4500.

15% of a $100K annual salary.....$15000.

Those earning less, PAY less...but it is proportionately the same.

And if you earn, so, $500K a year...you pay $75K a year in taxes.

Again, the idea is we all share the burden...but, we do it proportionately, which is fair.

Unless of course you are living at the poverty line - in which case taking that 15% away just sucks big time......

neo96
The rich don't pay their taxes ?
Really ?

Again these are numbers slanted by the group that wants to slant them.
In this case they are only taking “income tax” into account. They are leaving off all the other taxes.
1 billionaire does not pay more taxes them 100 million Americans using services and paying taxes from gas, sales, telephone use, utility use, cable, etc... Just look at your cell phone bill, I bet its nearly half taxes. Now take that times 100 million Americans, and tell me who pays more the 100 million, or the 1 billionaire?
If I take that 1 billionaire and tell him to drive his car 24/7 for 365 days, he will not generate as much in gas tax as the rest of us do in an hour.

So no they don't...
Also something like 80% of big corporations pay no taxes AND get tax credits back.
And the majority of very wealthy only pay %15 capital gains tax...

LewsTherinThelamon
reply to post by defcon5

 

No, its the guys who are doing all the bitching about having to pay for the welfare situation that put those folks out of work. Then they want to complain that there aren't enough of us middle class folks left out there to foot the bill for all of it, meanwhile they skate out the back door with their bonus money heading to their off-shore tax haven...

Actually, our businesses left the US because of taxation and government interference.

More taxes would only make the problem worse.

Get rid of all internal taxes on income

great idea ...problem is you would have to do away with fractional reserve banking which has caused the problem in the first place but suffice to say that may just rock the boat and the few that profit from this might not be very happy

reply to post by defcon5

$17 trillion is the ENTIRE national debt...

That is correct the entire national debt, since the government is spending more money than it current takes in that adds to the national debt.

Since NO government program can pay for itself it gets added to the debt, and that is after printing and borrowing money still doesn't cover the difference.

Only a fraction of that is due to medicare, social security, or welfare.

Only a FRACTION ?

Says right here www.usdebtclock.org...

That current spending on SS, and Medicare alone is over 2 trillion dollar plus the interest that has to be paid on it.

Also says right there the US government only collects 2.8 trillion in Federal tax revenue.

And it also says right there that it ONLY COLLECTS 966 billion from PAYROLL taxes.

PAYROLL taxes is what funds SS, and Medicare.

You know that you're not supposed to post false info on here, right?

There has not been a single word I have said that's been false.

NOT one.

Again, that's because they spent the money giving rich corporations tax breaks and paying off their buddies in the banking, and military industrial complex

That isn't true single they are spending over 2.2 trillion on the majority just on those two programs alone.

Robbing from everyone creating the welfare industrial complex because at the end of the day where does all that cash end up ?

In corporate pockets.

I have no idea what your talking about here.

What I am talking about is the Employee,the employer, the medicare surtax from that link, and the capital gains tax to fund medicare.

Multiple taxation because people are not paying for what they get.

Aloysius the Gaul

zeroBelief
[Let's look at it this way.

15% of a $30K annual salary....$4500.

15% of a $100K annual salary.....$15000.

Those earning less, PAY less...but it is proportionately the same.

And if you earn, so, $500K a year...you pay $75K a year in taxes.

Again, the idea is we all share the burden...but, we do it proportionately, which is fair.

Unless of course you are living at the poverty line - in which case taking that 15% away just sucks big time......

Sorry, I don't have a ton of sympathy there. You are in control of whether you are living at the "poverty line" or not.

I spent years waiting tables and bartending. And telemarketing. And working at videostores. And doing retail management.

Guess what, I wanted more.

I trained myself. Before the plethora of self training possibilities available on the internet today. I bought books. I cracked them open. I read. I trained. I showed friends I had skills. They got me interviews with the president of their company.

Within a year, I was earning $40K.

6 months later, $65K.



We make what we want of reality.

onequestion
reply to post by zeroBelief

 

There should be no taxes, why does everyone support taxes i dont get it?

Two words....

Public Services

reply to post by beezzer

That's why I support a flat tax with no exemptions or exceptions.

If you hate your citizens enough to tax them (remember that internal taxation against individuals and businesses is a form of Marxism), a flat-tax is the most disproportionate way to do it. It is unequal.


Abolish all taxes against individuals and businesses

reply to post by defcon5

Again these are number slanted by the group that wants to slant them.

The Huffington Post and CNN slanted those numbers ?

REALLY ?

In this case they are only taking “income tax” into account.

And ?

They are leaving off all the other taxes

Yeah so ?

Rich people are paying all those too, more so in fact.

1 billionaire does not pay more taxes them 100 million Americans

First that billionaire is paying over 250-350 million dollars in come tax alone.( depends how good is tax attorney is)

using services and paying taxes from gas, sales, telephone use, utility use, cable, etc... Just look at your cell phone bill, I bet its nearly half taxes.

That billionaire doesn't have all the same taxes?

Doesn't pay for the same things?

Really ?

If I take that 1 billionaire and tell him to drive his car 24/7 for 365 days, he will not generate as much in gas tax as the rest of us do in an hour.

Yeah well that evil billionaire does pay a luxury tax, and they usually have yachts, and jets, and staffs, that employ hundreds if not thousands of people that all generate more income.

So no they don't... Also something like 80% of big corporations pay no taxes AND get tax credits back. And the majority of very wealthy only pay %15 capital gains tax...

And ?

Still doesn't change the fact the majority of people get the same tax breaks.

Everyone does.