It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Time for a mass redistribution of wealth

page: 12
28
<< 9  10  11    13  14  15 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Jan, 30 2014 @ 07:49 PM
link   
reply to post by defcon5
 





$5,580 * 47 years = $262,260.00


And the most important thing to remember how long people have paid into it is moot.

Since administrations have robbed from it.

The money collected these days is out the door just as fast.
edit on 30-1-2014 by neo96 because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 30 2014 @ 07:50 PM
link   
reply to post by spiritualzombie
 


Like that is ever going to happen OP
Perhaps in another reality.



posted on Jan, 30 2014 @ 07:52 PM
link   
reply to post by zeroBelief
 





The answer, is to level the playing field by affording the same tax breaks and deals to the 99% that the 1% enjoy. Or rather, make the 1% actually PAY their DAMNED DUE and be a part of this society.


People need to stop acting like the '99%' don't get tax breaks, because they do to the tune of half of this country paying zero income tax.

Don't take my word for it:



Nearly half of American tax filers will pay no federal income taxes this year, according to data released by the Tax Policy Center.


www.huffingtonpost.com...


In 2009, roughly 47% of households, or 71 million, will not owe any federal income tax, according to estimates by the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center.


money.cnn.com...

Huffington Post, and CNN.



posted on Jan, 30 2014 @ 07:54 PM
link   

Cynic
reply to post by spiritualzombie
 


Like that is ever going to happen OP
Perhaps in another reality.


Well stated, Cynic.



posted on Jan, 30 2014 @ 07:58 PM
link   

neo96
Actually their math is the one that isn't working.
Since they are running deficits, and have to cover the spending shortfalls by taking more money from other people, and various ways.

I am really getting to the point of being done discussing this with you any more.
You have an opinion, and your going to stick to it even when the math shows you're wrong.

They are running deficits BECAUSE THEY SPENT THE FICKEN MONEY ON OTHER STUFF!!!!!

Understand?

As far as averages go, yeah you have to calculate this based on averages.
There's no other way to figure it out.
You pay 4 years on average for 1 year withdrawing if you live long enough to get it.
Its NOT a 1/1 year in/out rate like your claiming...

So in your example its $5580 x 4 = $22,320 for one year of payouts at $12,000....
$22,320 paid in - $12,000 paid out (according to your payout numbers) = $10,320 profit for the government...

...And its adjusted down if you DON'T PAY IN ENOUGH...



posted on Jan, 30 2014 @ 07:59 PM
link   

spiritualzombie

beezzer

spiritualzombie

beezzer
reply to post by spiritualzombie
 


reply to post by AlwaysIdeaMan
 


You both seem to equate greed with a mental disorder.

greed (grēd)
n.
An excessive desire to acquire or possess more than what one needs or deserves, especially with respect to material wealth


What the sticking point becomes. . . is WHO determines what one needs


Beezzer, I think you skip over the main point. Greed is an illness. It is like a cancer that eats away at a nation and destroys it.

This 1% buying government, controlling everything, creating laws to benefit only the powerful, is an abomination of democracy
edit on 30-1-2014 by spiritualzombie because: (no reason given)


YOU define greed as an illness. I defined it by using the dictionary.

I could also define liberalism as an illness. But that doesn't make it accurate.


Greed destroys the hearts and minds of men, greed inflates its own self worth, and reduces the importance of less fortunate. Greed seeks the pursuit of itself, it is never satisfied, always needs more... It even deifies itself calling itself a Creator. A Job Creator to be worshipped.

Children need to be educated on the dangers of greed, in the same way they are educated on gang violence, drugs, and alcohol. They need to have the skills to identify people who suffer from greed vs people who have risen above it. They need this moral compass for the betterment of mankind. It won't save them all, but it will be a good start.



edit on 30-1-2014 by spiritualzombie because: (no reason given)


Not sure that "educat[ion] on the dangers of greed" works in a system of money which promotes the wanting of things for profit to the sellers, that hold things as status symbols, that pushes the idea that you should "keep up with the Joneses." All the major religions teach that, and even that does not work.

Better to get rid of the need for money. And that is easier than you might think. As I said in my first post (page 8, bottom), money accounts for human energy, and with free energy, accounting for energy is just silly.
edit on 30-1-2014 by AlwaysIdeaMan because: punctuation



posted on Jan, 30 2014 @ 07:59 PM
link   

spiritualzombie


Greed destroys the hearts and minds of men, greed inflates its own self worth, and reduces the importance of less fortunate. Greed seeks the pursuit of itself, it is never satisfied, always needs more... It even deifies itself calling itself a Creator. A Job Creator to be worshipped.


Greed also creates empires, civilisations. Greed has two sides. One can benefit by anthers greed.


Children need to be educated on the dangers of greed, in the same way they are educated on gang violence, drugs, and alcohol. They need to have the skills to identify people who suffer from greed vs people who have risen above it. They need this moral compass for the betterment of mankind. It won't save them all, but it will be a good start.


Teach your children as you see fit. I raised mine by being independent. Not to suffer under the definitions, wants, desires of others.


Good night. Movie time and bed.

Cheers.



posted on Jan, 30 2014 @ 08:02 PM
link   

AlwaysIdeaMan

If we got rid of the need for money, and all had access to the abundance in this world, "needs" would be moot. And yes, taking more and more to have more than others at the expense of others IS an illness.


The world needs more minds like this. I think you're just ahead of the curve....

Capitalists are proving every day with their greed that the capitalist system is doomed to corruption.



posted on Jan, 30 2014 @ 08:02 PM
link   
reply to post by defcon5
 


I get all that. I'm not saying that they are similiar at all. That's just how it is put out there. I don't even like the word entitlements because it gives a false sense of security.

In my view, and I will admit it is simplistic.

Benefits are earned, whereas Welfare is not. But my Veterans benefits are being chopped to provide for those who have not earned them.

Don't get me wrong please, I know there are those who do absolutely need that kind of help. But I have seen with my own two eyes people who are living large milking the system. I've even tried to dime them out and get ignored. That's annoying to say the least.

If there is one area where I support the expansion of Gov't, it would be in the hiring investigators (honest ones) who look into welfare fraud and prosecute.



posted on Jan, 30 2014 @ 08:04 PM
link   

beezzer

spiritualzombie


Greed destroys the hearts and minds of men, greed inflates its own self worth, and reduces the importance of less fortunate. Greed seeks the pursuit of itself, it is never satisfied, always needs more... It even deifies itself calling itself a Creator. A Job Creator to be worshipped.


Greed also creates empires, civilisations. Greed has two sides. One can benefit by anthers greed.


Greed only benefits the few. Civilizations can be built without it. And far better for ALL. Empires are built on the backs of many a peasant. And the emperor has power over everybody else. Yes, greed motivates the power-hungry psychopaths.



posted on Jan, 30 2014 @ 08:05 PM
link   

beezzer

spiritualzombie


Greed destroys the hearts and minds of men, greed inflates its own self worth, and reduces the importance of less fortunate. Greed seeks the pursuit of itself, it is never satisfied, always needs more... It even deifies itself calling itself a Creator. A Job Creator to be worshipped.


Greed also creates empires, civilisations. Greed has two sides. One can benefit by anthers greed.


Children need to be educated on the dangers of greed, in the same way they are educated on gang violence, drugs, and alcohol. They need to have the skills to identify people who suffer from greed vs people who have risen above it. They need this moral compass for the betterment of mankind. It won't save them all, but it will be a good start.


Teach your children as you see fit. I raised mine by being independent. Not to suffer under the definitions, wants, desires of others.


Good night. Movie time and bed.

Cheers.





bit of family time and watching "the pursuit of happiness"



posted on Jan, 30 2014 @ 08:08 PM
link   

spiritualzombie
Capitalists are proving every day with their greed that the capitalist system is doomed to corruption.


Replace Capitalist with Human and I would agree with you.

Other than that...it's a pipe dream and not at all realistic. Read your history. When you are older, I think that you'll understand and just try to survive and take care of your family.



posted on Jan, 30 2014 @ 08:10 PM
link   

neo96
And the most important thing to remember how long people have paid into it is moot.
Since administrations have robbed from it.

It doesn't matter where it went, it has to be paid back.
You can't just decide to shaft all the normal/poor folks out there their retirement money because the rich don't want to pay their taxes.

Again...


Embezzlement is the act of dishonestly withholding assets for the purpose of conversion (theft) of such assets by one or more individuals to whom such assets have been entrusted, to be held and/or used for other purposes.


I get it though, the rich folks are just kicking and screaming that they will have to pay for some debt that was wracked up on the tax payers behalf after years of the rich and their shell corporations having to pay little to no taxes to cover these debts. All tax payer money belongs to the rich, and is to be used only for the rich, to pay out interest to the rich, and to cover the gambling debts of the rich.

If any public tax money is used on the public who paid into it, its socialism/communism.

Got it



posted on Jan, 30 2014 @ 08:10 PM
link   
reply to post by defcon5
 





I am really getting to the point of being done discussing this with you any more. You have an opinion, and your going to stick to it even when the math shows you're wrong.


That 17 trillion dollars in debt say I am right.

Since neither program funds itself that created deficits, that gets added to the national debt.

Tax the rich also says I am right.

The multiple Medicare taxes also says I am right.

The creation of Myra also says I am right.




hey are running deficits BECAUSE THEY SPENT THE FICKEN MONEY ON OTHER STUFF!!!!!


They are running deficits on everything because not a damn one including social security and medicare PAY FOR THEMSELVES.



posted on Jan, 30 2014 @ 08:11 PM
link   

neo96
reply to post by zeroBelief
 





The answer, is to level the playing field by affording the same tax breaks and deals to the 99% that the 1% enjoy. Or rather, make the 1% actually PAY their DAMNED DUE and be a part of this society.


People need to stop acting like the '99%' don't get tax breaks, because they do to the tune of half of this country paying zero income tax.

Don't take my word for it:



Nearly half of American tax filers will pay no federal income taxes this year, according to data released by the Tax Policy Center.


www.huffingtonpost.com...


In 2009, roughly 47% of households, or 71 million, will not owe any federal income tax, according to estimates by the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center.


money.cnn.com...

Huffington Post, and CNN.


Nope, I didn't take your word for it.

Simple fact of the matter is, the wealthy have various tax holes, accountants paid to do NOTHING other than to weasel money away so as to not be available to be taxed...etc.

Now, we also need to question the whole there of "zero tax liability". Are we saying that househoulds (47% mentioned in the second article from CNN) have "zero tax liability". Is this to say they were not taxed at all on their paychecks? That they will owe no additional income tax when they file their taxes at the end of the year? Or that they can expect ALL of their paid income tax back in a refund?

If you ask me, this is as misleading of a title for percentages as the tax code to begin with.

Flat tax. Make ALL households, all workers, pay taxes. Across the board. No loopholes. No hiding money in offshore accounts. IRA's and FSA's and the like, fine. But any tool beyond those should severely scrutinized.

Wealthy and poor should pay the same amount. The idea that I, who make a little over $100K should pay roughly a third in taxes, is ludicrous..simply because I earn more. Screw that. EVERYONE should pay the SAME percentage. It will balance out, and we'll come out ahead as a nation, able to pay down some of this debt that people feel we can spend our way out of.

Also, the damned country needs to make it a fiscal reality to actually base corporate structures here in the US. Make american products using american workers. The company I work for re-incorporated overseas because it was saving them %15 in taxes annually. When you're talking a MAJORLY multimillion dollar company, guess what, that's no chump change your talking about. The US Gov't needs to make it financially attractive to be based in the US, and fiscally penalizing to base your operations elsewhere.

Oh, and the real slap in the face? The company is BASED outside of the US...but guess where the bulk majority of the work takes place...GOOD OL' USA.



posted on Jan, 30 2014 @ 08:12 PM
link   
reply to post by spiritualzombie
 


The end of the Monetary System all together. Remove the old, outdated, broken (never made to be fixed in first place), system, and reinvent a new one...like that one man said....

“You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.” ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

Big Jedi



posted on Jan, 30 2014 @ 08:12 PM
link   
reply to post by defcon5
 





You can't just decide to shaft all the normal/poor folks out there their retirement money because the rich don't want to pay their taxes.


The rich don't pay their taxes ?

Really ?

The rich don't pay their taxes ?



posted on Jan, 30 2014 @ 08:18 PM
link   
reply to post by zeroBelief
 





Simple fact of the matter is, the wealthy have various tax holes, accountants paid to do NOTHING other than to weasel money away so as to not be available to be taxed...etc.


Well the Huffington Post and CNN say half this country is 'weaseling' out of their tax 'obligations'. and they are not talking about them evil rich.




Now, we also need to question the whole there of "zero tax liability". Are we saying that househoulds (47% mentioned in the second article from CNN) have "zero tax liability". Is this to say they were not taxed at all on their paychecks? That they will owe no additional income tax when they file their taxes at the end of the year? Or that they can expect ALL of their paid income tax back in a refund?


Question it all you want doesn't change the fact most 47% have no federal tax liability. And that is what they mean NONE.

Because they are getting TAX CREDITS, TAX incentives JUST like them evil 1%ers.




If you ask me, this is as misleading of a title for percentages as the tax code to begin with.


Not misleading at all IMO.




Flat tax. Make ALL households, all workers, pay taxes. Across the board. No loopholes. No hiding money in offshore accounts. IRA's and FSA's and the like, fine. But any tool beyond those should severely scrutinized.


I support abolition of the income tax that way some people can't play politics with it.

The only fair tax is no tax at all.



posted on Jan, 30 2014 @ 08:19 PM
link   

BigJedi
reply to post by spiritualzombie
 


The end of the Monetary System all together. Remove the old, outdated, broken (never made to be fixed in first place), system, and reinvent a new one...like that one man said....

“You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.” ― Richard Buckminster Fuller

Big Jedi


Spoken like a Jedi



posted on Jan, 30 2014 @ 08:21 PM
link   

spiritualzombie

AlwaysIdeaMan

If we got rid of the need for money, and all had access to the abundance in this world, "needs" would be moot. And yes, taking more and more to have more than others at the expense of others IS an illness.


The world needs more minds like this. I think you're just ahead of the curve....

Capitalists are proving every day with their greed that the capitalist system is doomed to corruption.



Thank you. I think that all scarcity solutions have issues. Capitalism, communism, socialism. As one writer called it, abundancism is the way to go.



new topics

top topics



 
28
<< 9  10  11    13  14  15 >>

log in

join