Deciphering the Pagan Stones

a reply to: PonderingSceptic

Thank you, I will look into Rosales' book, definitely.

The Runic Calendar

The Runic calendar, in Kiev, (in above link - I can't upload photos on this new ATS format?) uses Futhark runes like Scandinavia, more connections with Baltic tribes and Norse culture - and probably our Picts too.
The destruction and suppression of these histories, to further a particular 'religion', is nothing short of criminal, in my opinion.

a reply to: beansidhe

By the way could you kindly post the particular Pict stone that has what looks like an anchor on it? I found some coins with anchors plus some anchors in places that have nothing to do with the ocean or sea even to modern times. Its use is apparently somewhat esoteric and abstract.

a reply to: Logarock

No problem Log, I'll do that as soon as I find it. Back soon!

Top RHS

Just a couple of things -

The Negau Inscriptions have caused some controversy, found on a helmet amongst a hoard of artifacts in Slovenia. The helmet comes from 50BC and has celtic writing inscribed around the rim:





This is the article it comes from, and you might really enjoy this website, Pondering Sceptic. It was linked earlier but it's worth repeating.

Baltic Celts/Negau Inscriptions

I also came across this site, and although it's quite hard to navigate it's a good source for reference. No photos, but it lists every inscription on 'Celtic' stones found in Britain and France.

Celtic Inscribed Stones Project

a reply to: beansidhe


There is a larger example if not mistaken.

a reply to: beansidhe

There were trade routes going through the area from North to Black sea and from there to Middle East. During Roman times there were additional two trade routes with Rome through Baltic sea.
Suppression isn't gone. Scepter of Gediminas and Vaidevucio flag are reminders of far away past, and numerous other. Officially there were no runes.

a reply to: Logarock

That's not the one that came to mind either - I'll go back and look again

From the Wemyss caves - this is what I was thinking of:

While looking for an anchor symbol, I was wondering if this was what you meant ( /I LHS) but decided you probably didn't.



However, that little symbol -which I haven't ever noticed before-takes us deep into conspiracy land.
I was looking through the Barddas earlier on, and got quite caught up in it. It was written by Iolo Morganwg, who was the writer at the centre of Alan's Wilson's claim. Iolo Morganwg is claimed by most of academia to have been a hoaxer who made up the Barddas in 1862, whilst taking bits and pieces from earlier sources. Wilson disputes this, and says Morganwg has been deliberately smeared and discredited.

Full text of the Barddas

Morganwg discusses this very symbol:

Why is it not right that a man should commit the Name of God to vocalization, and the sound of language and tongue?
Because it cannot be done without misnaming God, for [p.20 p.21] no man ever heard the vocalization of His Name, and no one knows how to pronounce it; but it is represented by letters, that it may be known what is meant, and for Whom it stands. Formerly signs were employed, namely, the three elements of vocal letters. However, to prevent disrespect and dishonour to God, a Bard is forbidden to name Him, except inwardly and in thought.
Pray, my beloved and discreet teacher, show me the signs that stand for the Name of God, and the manner in which they are made.
Thus are they made;―the first of the signs is a small cutting or line inclining with the sun at eventide, thus, / the second is another cutting, in the form of a perpendicular, upright post, thus, I and the third is a cutting of the same amount of inclination as the first, but in an opposite direction, that is, against the sun, thus and the three placed together, thus, . But instead of, and as substitutes for these, are placed the three letters O I W.

And so /I is the symbol of the unpronouncable God. Either the pict stone is showing what Iolo Morganwg claims the Druids wrote, or it is a coincidence, or a 19th century forger has inscribed the pict stone in the hope someone, someday will mistakenly identify it as a Druid's mark.

originally posted by: beansidhe


Thus are they made;―the first of the signs is a small cutting or line inclining with the sun at eventide, thus, / the second is another cutting, in the form of a perpendicular, upright post, thus, I and the third is a cutting of the same amount of inclination as the first, but in an opposite direction, that is, against the sun, thus and the three placed together, thus, . But instead of, and as substitutes for these, are placed the three letters O I W.

Hi Beans - Doesn't the description above form an upward pointing arrowhead? /I \ ?
I may have misread? Is that the symbol you're talking about?
(I'm playing catch-up here!!)
G

a reply to: Gordi The Drummer

Yes, that's right - it does look like an arrow head. It would be disrespectful to say God's name out loud, as it wouldn't be pronounced right and therefore not his name. So they substituted the three lines for the letters O I V/W as a representation instead.
I think that's what's on this stone. And if it is, and we accept Iolo's work, then that is really telling us a whole lot about the nature of these stones!!!

...but YOU just said Gordi??? Does typing out loud not count??? LOL

originally posted by: beansidhe

And so /I is the symbol of the unpronouncable God. Either the pict stone is showing what Iolo Morganwg claims the Druids wrote, or it is a coincidence, or a 19th century forger has inscribed the pict stone in the hope someone, someday will mistakenly identify it as a Druid's mark.

Or it may prove that the Druids came out of the corrupted order of Israelitish priests that also maintained the idea. These priests took up with the oak grove ect and tried to incorporate this in with Yahweh worship. As they did with Baal and many other things. Several important attributes follow these people down through history. One is the notation made time and again about their tribal 10/12 divisions of leadership in their societies be it in Thrace or Italy for example, holding important state and tribal meetings in the groves, their noted association with the "thunder god" even called by some as the "thunder people", white robed priest, ect. There is more, not so flattering associations.

a reply to: Logarock

It gives a different slant as to why Iolo was discredited, maybe? It doesn't look too good if that's what our ancestors were really up to? I think that this is evidence that there were links between these people, unless of course Morganwg made up the whole thing for fun. But I don't really believe that he did.
Iona apparently had the greatest library in the Europe during the Dark Ages. It has been suggested that the book of Kells was written there or maybe at Applecross. All of it, every last page, is gone. The Vikings got the blame, and maybe that's true - it's impossible to ever know who or what destroyed these books. The book of Kells is in Ireland now, and to my untrained eye it's Pictish.

There are a number of differences between the text and the accepted Gospels. In the genealogy of Jesus, which starts at Luke 3:23, Kells names an extra ancestor.[32]

Matthew 10:34b The canonized Bible reads "I came not to send peace, but a sword," but the manuscript reads gaudium ("joy") where it should read gladium ("sword") and so translates as "I came not [only] to send peace, but joy."[33]

The lavishly decorated opening page of the Gospel according to John in the Book of Kells had been deciphered by George Bain as: "In principio erat verbum verum"[34] [In the beginning was the True Word]. Therefore the Incipit is a free translation into Latin of the Greek original λογος rather than a mere copy of the Roman version.

a reply to: Logarock

I want to apologize to you Logarock for what I said the other day.
I've been thinking about it a lot and I realize I went way overboard and am ashamed of it.

I really can do better and I will try to make it up to you.
I'll help with what you are doing but I'll need some time.

The reasons that I blew up towards you are fairly complicated and most of them don't apply to you at all.
It was me, not you, although you were being rough around the edges you usually are and it wasn't out of the ordinary for your behavior patterns, but what was out of the ordinary was my unacceptable behavior. So I will work towards overcoming and resolving that tendency.

In a way I was unleashing on everyone at once, not just you. I'm sure you noticed and felt that, as did other members who noted my out of line comments. They were not out of line because of the suggestion of historical inaccuracy, but because I turned them into hurtful statements insinuating things that simply are not true.

I was wrong and I am sorry. I regret hurting anyone with those brash comments.
I hope you, and everyone else, can find it in your hearts to forgive me.
I promise I will do better.

Muzzleflash

a reply to: muzzleflash

I am humbled by your apology. Have never seen an apology like this on ATS.

a reply to: beansidhe


I see what you are saying and have a copy of that around here somewhere.

a reply to: muzzleflash

It would be really great if you could stick around and help out with this. I would appreciate it very much.

originally posted by: beansidhe
a reply to: muzzleflash

It would be really great if you could stick around and help out with this. I would appreciate it very much.

Ok. Thank you for asking I appreciate it and would be honored to.

I Love all of you (yes especially Loga) and nothing would make me happier.

Mods can stop applauding me now, I don't deserve it, I was only seeking to lift a burden I had wrongly laid on others. But I thank all of you very much for the love and support, you all have me in tears I'm so pleasantly surprised this morning.

Thank you all very much.