Was Adam’s first sin that of not reproducing?

DISRAELI
reply to post by undo

 

Sure; I was just answering the OP in its own terms, showing that the story would not bear that interpretation.

Ditto

rival
I don;t know about your question, but you brought up an interesting scenario
....what if Adam had been gay?

No one else would have ever existed. Eve would have been frustrated. And Eden
would have been very nice and tidy place for all eternity

True.

His actual sex preference remains unnamed.

It looks like God made Adam what we call might call gay then realized His mistake and did a little something to fix it.

God just didn't have enough mojo to fix it for all times?

That is what Christians tell me. They then have Adam and all those things with animals, well, you know.

No help meat in all that meat. If we would have been there with that poor bastard, we would have told him

www.youtube.com...


Regards
DL

flammadraco
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

What about "Lilith" who was Adam's first wife? no body ever seems to remember poor old Lilith ;(

I know. Christians do not believe in equality. What can I say. They only like the man kicking woman parts. Not the other way around.

Regards
DL

rickymouse
Maybe he was supposed to be full of fruit, not fruitful. The Hebrew language was written backwards you know.

I don't think that this was the issue. It does pay to look at things differently sometimes but I don't think it is related in this case.

Yes and no.

It is not so much the reproduction. It is the fact that two commandments were ignored but God only punishes A & E for the one that brought them the most benefit and it was the second command. God somehow ignores the first infraction.

It is an issue of fundamental justice.

Regards
DL

DISRAELI
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

Have you ever tried to start a family?
The fact that no child was born doesn't count as evidence that they were not trying.

If you are trying, would you not know that you were naked?

Regards
DL

Maltese5Rhino

flammadraco
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

What about "Lilith" who was Adam's first wife? no body ever seems to remember poor old Lilith ;(

Bad naming choice lol ......Adam and Lillith? Back to the drawing board people! Think of something more catchy and keep it short and sweet... Adam and Evelyn? mmmmm Make it Eve' and done send to print asap!

What I find strange is all those English names for people of the ancient Middle East.

More miracles.

Regards
DL

dashen
The ancient rabbis were very clear that specifically adams sin was that of ungratefulness.
When he said "this woman that YOU gave me made me sin."
Thats the original sin.
he forgot who he was and who he was talking to.

That may depend on which Rabbi. Many see Eden as man's elevation and not the miss-named fall that Christian usurpers put on it.
That is likely why Jews do not have an original sin doctrine.

Read this short link please.

www.mrrena.com...

Regards
DL

ScrufferMcGruffer
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

Sigh....

To agree with that would mean one would have to believe that Genesis literally took place. The story about Adam and Eve and the Tree and the Snake are all so obviously allegorical, I can't see how anyone with any sort of sentient intelligence could believe otherwise. Oh that's right, Christians completely lack intelligence. How else could they justify killing millions of people in the name of the God of love?

Seriously though, the tree is a metaphor for one's spiritual path. Their map of spiritual attainment and advancement. The Tree of Life in the Kabbalah, a map of creation. The fruits on the tree are the sephiroth, centers of different types of spiritual energy that are associated with a myriad of other things, such as colors, plants, sensations, planets, hours, scents, etc...
The sephiroths are really levels of attainment that one can climb through so to say. The serpent on the tree is a squiggly line that connects all the sephiroths at once, effectively firing on all cylinders, if you will. This represents enlightenment, the ability to connect ones ability to recognize beauty with the ability to understand. Or the ability to have knowledge coupled with the ability to understand that knowledge in order to make wise decisions of what to do with said knowledge. These are examples of multiple sephiroths working together, in unison, to produce actions and other things that we do every day without thinking about it. That is why good artists are so rare, because it is difficult to combine the several sephiroths required to make good art. One has to be in touch with certain sephiroths of serverity and mercy, as well as beauty and strength, also with the ability to create and make physical the other-worldy ideas of Kether into Malkuth.

Anyway, now you see, that the entire story of Genesis, is one big allegory for man's consciousness and the path to sentience. Eating of the fruit on this tree brought the man from ignorance into light. (Some say the real fruit is psychedelic mushrooms, or any of the other several hundred hallucinogenic plants that bring instant enlightenment. This eating of the mushroom might be the very thing that triggered the evolutionary step in man to have a superior conscoiusness) Animals work on the lower sephiroths, and they are not even aware that there is a system, or a tree, or different spiritual centers. That is how man was before, and when he ate of the fruit on the tree, he instantly became conscious of the fact that there even was a tree! This lead to him thinking, about thinking. Knowing that he knows and doesn't know. This knowing of knowing, is what separates humans from animals, that is why it is so sacred, and that is why it is the beginning. Not the beginning of the world, but the beginning of man's spiritual journey.

edit on 29-1-2014 by ScrufferMcGruffer because: (no reason given)

I know it is a myth but it has been used for so long to discriminate against women that I like to discredit a literal interpretation whenever I can.

It's the right thing to do.

Regards
DL

undo

flammadraco
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

What about "Lilith" who was Adam's first wife? no body ever seems to remember poor old Lilith ;(

she was a female adam copy of elohim. her and other female adam copies are mentioned in the creation of the adam verse.

And so Elohim created adam, male and female, created he them.

elohim copies, male and female, all named adam.

it's right in the text

I agree that it is in a miss-copied text.
Jews tell me that Adam is a single individual and that adam is a society or tribe or group.

The text only makes sense if we use the group designation.

Regards
DL

Greatest I am
If you are trying, would you not know that you were naked?

It would not give them a sense that they ought not to be naked.
Animals reproduce all the time without feeling the need to put clothes on afterwards.

DISRAELI

Greatest I am
If you are trying, would you not know that you were naked?

It would not give them a sense that they ought not to be naked.
Animals reproduce all the time without feeling the need to put clothes on afterwards.

How many animals are intelligent enough recognize the concept of clothing?

Name them to make your reply make any sense at all.

Regards
DL

reply to post by Greatest I am

I don't need to.
i was pointing out that there is no direct conection between being naked, as such, and thinking that being naked is a bad idea.
Your previous answer implied that Adam and Eve would have sex and then say- "Wait a minute, that act of reproduction has just reminded me that we're not wearing clothes, which haven't been invented yet".
That was the suggestion that made no sense.

DISRAELI
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

I don't need to.
i was pointing out that there is no direct conection between being naked, as such, and thinking that being naked is a bad idea.
Your previous answer implied that Adam and Eve would have sex and then say- "Wait a minute, that act of reproduction has just reminded me that we're not wearing clothes, which haven't been invented yet".
That was the suggestion that made no sense.

Another oversight from a stupid God who forget that civilized mature people who can supposedly reproduce in Gen 1 but who God does not clothe till Gen 3, --- should have been clothed and known they were naked in Gen 1.

Regards
DL

Greatest I am
Was Adam’s first sin that of not reproducing?

Gen 1; 28 And God blessed them; and God said unto them: 'Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth,

Strangely woman disappears. Then Gen 2; 18 And the LORD God said: 'It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a help meet for him.'

If you cannot understand the basic flow of Genesis - you really don't know the Bible.

Gen 4; 1 And the man knew Eve his wife; and she conceived and bore Cain, and said: 'I have gotten a man with the help of the LORD.'

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Genesis indicates that Adam was not very bright. It also indicates that he somehow did not have the instincts we all have including the desire to reproduce.

Adam was nothing more than an animal. Animals usually get-it-on when their mate is in heat.

At least not until he ate of the tree of knowledge.

Strange to think that without breaking God’s command not to eat of the tree of knowledge, Adam would have never reproduced and none of us would be here to thank any God for creating us.

As you can see from the Eden time-line, Adam had a lot of time to know Eve, ------- yet did not do as commanded in Gen 1. In fact he waited until Gen 4.

How long was it?

If you, if you are a man, were told to reproduce, can you see yourself sitting there naming animals instead of enjoying sex? Do not lie. You know you would have jumped Eve in the wink of an eye.

It is very sad that all you see in a woman is sexual desires. This is what is wrong with most men.

Unless you are gay that is.

Maybe he was the first gentleman and not a pig.

Now I know that Christians have some strange notions about not having sex at certain times but the case above shows that Adam refused or was not mature enough to do God’s command. I cannot see the later because God would not request what cannot be given. Therefore, eating of the tree of knowledge was not the first sin of disobedience.

Therefore, you are incorrect again.

Not reproducing when told to was the first sin of disobedience.

Do you agree?

Nope.

Regards
DL

Does supernatural control exonerate Eve?

Eve was unjustly punished because she was under supernatural control in a set of circumstances that God himself set up by putting Satan in Eden.

God put Satan in Eden to insure that Eve ate and gave him the power to deceive Eve. She could not resist God's power directed through Satan and thus Eve had no choice but to eat of the tree of knowledge. She, like the snake, were under supernatural control and thus innocent of any wrong-doing.

Eve fails the criteria of mens rea, Latin for evil intent, a fundamental requirement of secular and biblical law, and thus Eve was innocent of any wrong-doing.

No human judge in his right mind would have judged A & E the way God did before God set the conditions that insured that A & E also died from neglect and the locking away of the tree of life. That was murder.

Does supernatural control exonerate Eve?

Regards
DL

reply to post by Greatest I am


Think you are taking things to literal. If you cannot understand the meaning of something as easy like Eve eating the fruit, then there is no hope for you.

Bet you still think the universe WAS created within a week...

Pathetic.

God bless.

ChuckNasty
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

Think you are taking things to literal. If you cannot understand the meaning of something as easy like Eve eating the fruit, then there is no hope for you.

Bet you still think the universe WAS created within a week...

Pathetic.

God bless.

You mistake me for a literalist. How droll.

I am not even a Christian. I am a cut above and am a Gnostic Christian and we are not literalists at all

BTW, there was no fruit. It was a tree of knowledge and it is the mind that absorbs that and not the stomach.

Regards
DL

Just some good info on Lillith some have chosen to ignore, I guess to sensationalise the story



Lilith as Adam’s First Wife

Scholars are not certain where the character of Lilith comes from, though many believe she was inspired by Sumerian myths about female vampires called “Lillu” or Mesopotamian myths about succubae (female night demons) called “lilin.” Lilith is mentioned four times in the Babylonian Talmud, but it is not until the Alphabet of Ben Sira (c. 800s to 900s) that the character of Lilith is associated with the first version of Creation. In this medieval text, Ben Sira names Lilith as Adam’s first wife and presents a full account of her story.

According to the Alphabet of Ben Sira, Lilith was Adam’s first wife but the couple fought all the time. They didn’t see eye-to-eye on matters of sex because Adam always wanted to be on top while Lilith also wanted a turn in the dominant sexual position. When they could not agree, Lilith decided to leave Adam. She uttered God’s name and flew into the air, leaving Adam alone in the Garden of Eden. God sent three angels after her and commanded them to bring her back to her husband by force if she would not come willingly. But when the angels found her by the Red Sea they were unable to convince her to return and could not force her to obey them. Eventually a strange deal is struck, wherein Lilith promised not to harm newborn children if they are protected by an amulet with the names of the three angels written on it:

“The three angels caught up with her in the [Red] Sea…They seized her and told her: ‘If you agree to come with us, come, and if not, we shall drown you in the sea.’ She answered: ‘Darlings, I know myself that God created me only to afflict babies with fatal disease when they are eight days old; I shall have permission to harm them from their birth to the eighth day and no longer; when it is a male baby; but when it is a female baby, I shall have permission for twelve days.’ The angels would not leave her alone, until she swore by God’s name that wherever she would see them or their names in an amulet, she would not possess the baby [bearing it]. They then left her immediately. This is [the story of] Lilith who afflicts babies with disease.” (Alphabet of Ben Sira, from "Eve & Adam: Jewish, Christian, and Muslim Readings on Genesis and Gender" pg. 204.)

The Alphabet of Ben Sira appears to combine legends of female demons with the idea of the 'first Eve.' What results is a story about Lilith, an assertive wife who rebelled against God and husband, was replaced by another woman, and was demonized in Jewish folklore as a dangerous killer of babies.

Later legends also characterize her as a beautiful woman who seduces men or copulates with them in their sleep (a succubus), then spawns demon children. According to some accounts, Lilith is the Queen of Demons.

References: Kvam, Krisen E. etal. "Eve & Adam: Jewish, Christian, and Muslim Readings on Genesis and Gender." Indiana University Press: Bloomington, 1999.

Greatest I am

ChuckNasty
reply to post by Greatest I am

 

Think you are taking things to literal. If you cannot understand the meaning of something as easy like Eve eating the fruit, then there is no hope for you.

Bet you still think the universe WAS created within a week...

Pathetic.

God bless.

You mistake me for a literalist. How droll.

You quote scripture for their literal meanings... So yes, you take what you read literally. Only thing droll is your response to this..

I am not even a Christian. I am a cut above and am a Gnostic Christian and we are not literalists at all

Really!? You have no clue as to what a Gnostic Christian is... You keep quoting stuff and argue the literal meanings on EVERYTHING! Do you really want me to quote every single thing you took as the literal meaning? Just say so, and I will comply.. You are correct when you state you are not even Christian...but to call yourself a Gnostic Christian....did you read that in a book!? You have zero clue as to what an Gnostic Christian is or how they preach - let alone what they believe. You are just a silly guy with no clue.

BTW, there was no fruit. It was a tree of knowledge and it is the mind that absorbs that and not the stomach.

Wrong again! There was no tree... You are so lost in this book - you should find another. Being an Gnostic Christian, you should understand the meaning of that... (but you just claim to be something you have no concept of). I hope you find your way, cause this isn't that way. I would state pathetic as you would or call you a direct fool as you do, but that would be an insult to those who are pathetic and a fool. God Bless.

Regards
DL

Regards...

Garbage above to be ignored.

Regards
DL