Scientific Facts In The Bible

reply to post by Lingweenie


This is interesting and intelligently worded. I actually did start out with this same type of mindset you refer to. My dad was a pastor and I was always in trouble. The first thing he would go to was the Bible. I have been told I am an autodidact. The Bible was one of the books I picked up, as in my arrogance(many told me I was so smart while I was young, I was in magnet school yadda yadda) I would read it to try to stump him. In hindsight it was a terrible thing to do. In doing so I realized that there is present in that book a wisdom impossible to have been attained by man. We just aren't that smart. I think it gets a bad rap because people take things that are done by people who clearly haven't ever picked up a Bible or taken its teachings to heart. G.K. Chesterton: "The christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting, it has been found hard and left untried."

UxoriousMagnus

bitsforbytes
reply to post by UxoriousMagnus

 

So then how did we come up with God? How did we come up with the concept of the soul? Can't see those or observe them in nature.

edit on 29-1-2014 by bitsforbytes because: (no reason given)

You are the first one to actually ask an intelligent question about this....

how indeed?

We could only come up with it....if we were told it by....God.

On that line of thinking, is it save to say that God endorses the Spaghetti Monster?

An interesting site which compiles interesting passages and there relation to scientific understanding:
www.godandscience.org...

I definitely believe in a Creator as it is intuitive for various reasons including mathematics and probability, which you mentioned in your post. But I am not convinced that the verses you listed actually have the meaning that you ascribed to them. It just seems to me that, viewing the Bible as a whole, especially the Old Testament, the writers at this period of time genuinely accepted that everything was created by God, without question. And because of this they didn't ponder the "why" or "how" very often. And because of this it seems unlikely to me that they would have included anything remotely scientific in their writing about God. They would have been writing strictly from a religious point of view.

That might not make sense, as I am having a difficult time writing what I am thinking. Maybe I'm having a hard time because this is more of a hunch than anything, and not a coherent argument. And I could be wrong. Science and religion do not mix very well in our current society, but I do not believe this is because the two ideas are incompatible. Rather I believe that it is the attitude of certain individuals that makes the two ideas incompatible.

While science has done much to advance our civilization in various manners, time and time again it has proven that it is fallible. Especially where the supernatural is concerned. I just get the feeling that too many scientists think that if something cannot be measured, it is not worthy of study. There is a difference between not being able to study something because there is no known way to measure it, and saying that such things don't exist because they haven't been proven to be real. I am convinced, as is at least a third of the US population, that the supernatural exist in more than one form, having had experiences with such, and I believe that there MUST be a physical force behind such occurrences.

Just because science has not caught up to these things at present does not mean they don't exist. What ever happened to scientists asking the hard questions? And why are supernatural things in general dismissed, because it is said there is no evidence? I find it funny because it is the fault of science that it has not advanced itself enough to detect these types of occurrences, and so scienctists state that these types of things must not exist. How is the supernatural any different from some of the crap theoretical physicists try to get the public to believe?

And I would much rather take the eyewitness testimony of millions of people over some abstract mathematics that may or may not apply to the way things actually work. And that is when these scientists even have mathematics to shakily reinforce their wacky ideas; ideas which, like I said, are more "out there" than the idea of God or ghosts.

Lingweenie
As far as science vs. religion is concerned, yes both are usually wrong.

This is another fail argument - if religion(s) are wrong - so its science as well. Throw 100 coins from highest building around and check how many of them will prove theory of gravity wrong. (make sure you don't jump, as I am sure you will agree that science is correct there, and most likely you will not fly into sky...

Lingweenie
There are many scientific theories, and there are many religions out there. Not all of them could be right. There will certainly be a whole lot more wrongs than rights on both sides.

Only difference is that once scientist find something new, that replaces something old and with testing manage to prove it, we all move along and accept new theory.

In religion you have still people believing in little angry man in sky.

Lingweenie
But I have to say I admire science because people are actively looking around for answers, and testing their theories and hypotheses. When it comes to religion they don't really bother trying to test their ideas, and everything is pretty much set in stone. Unless they go out with a biased mindset trying to prove their own faith. They have accepted everything they up hold is truth, and there is no point trying to look for answers.

There is nothing there to test. For example, there is no single piece evidence outside of bible to point that Jesus, Moses or Abraham ever existed. It should not be hard to imagine how religious folks reacts on this findings.

Lingweenie
So at least science attempting to find things out. While religion is comfortable with their views and feel no need to experiment. Religions are more lazy quite frankly.

Tell that to OP - Just as Father George has said - scripture and science come from 2 different times, there is no science in scripture, but that does not go well with this fundamentalist way of thinking...

Lingweenie
Plus, I never understood why science and religion are pitted against each other sometimes. Science would actually help religion. It would just further your understanding, and make us closer to the universe, or "god" if you want to say that. They both have a common goal; Answering the big questions people have been asking.

Science can't prove you God existence - it is belief - something science does not do well.

If you have time, please take a look at this video:

reply to post by JiggyPotamus


Well said. I just uploaded a avatar which demonstrates that mathematics probably does play a vital role in the creation of things on this planet, in a beautiful and profound way. It was to more accurately demonstrate the element of intelligent design at work. If you read up on the Golden Spiral or Fibonacci sequence, it might be interesting unless you already are aware. These are actually things that some people don't really want people delving into. In the words of of John D Rockefeller "I want a nation of workers, not thinkers".

reply to post by SuperFrog


If nothing made us, then what keeps the law of gravity constant? I propose you throw a plastic bottle at a wall. Count how many times the bottle lands in the same place. This is a random act and imposes random results. Gravity always stays the same. The speed of light always stays the same. So on and so on. If nothing designed this then how do these laws exist. In a random world a thinking mind would think random results would incur. But they don't. Anyway, I watched your video. Isaac Newton, the genius of the world according to Degrasse Tyson, was almost insanely religious. Look it up. This according to him was the smartest man that ever lived. A bit contradictory I would say. Please look at this:
www.arn.org...

pleasethink
reply to post by JiggyPotamus

 

Well said. I just uploaded a avatar which demonstrates that mathematics probably does play a vital role in the creation of things on this planet, in a beautiful and profound way. It was to more accurately demonstrate the element of intelligent design at work. If you read up on the Golden Spiral or Fibonacci sequence, it might be interesting unless you already are aware. These are actually things that some people don't really want people delving into. In the words of of John D Rockefeller "I want a nation of workers, not thinkers".

You cant apply the Fibonacci numbers to all of nature in fact most animals use different numbers like us for example.And just because we can show figures doesnt mean there is even a corelation to nature. For example a sea shell has to start out that way as the animal grows he needs more room creating larger and larger sections on his spiral. Its not math at that point its practicality if done any other way defeats the purpose of the shell. I love it when someone siezes on something being new to them and believes it to be something its not. See humans being an intelligent species created math to explain the world and you seem shocked it does seems to me thats why we invented it dont you?

pleasethink
reply to post by SuperFrog

 

If nothing made us, then what keeps the law of gravity constant? I propose you throw a plastic bottle at a wall. Count how many times the bottle lands in the same place. This is a random act and imposes random results. Gravity always stays the same. The speed of light always stays the same. So on and so on. If nothing designed this then how do these laws exist. In a random world a thinking mind would think random results would incur. But they don't. Anyway, I watched your video. Isaac Newton, the genius of the world according to Degrasse Tyson, was almost insanely religious. Look it up. This according to him was the smartest man that ever lived. A bit contradictory I would say. Please look at this:
www.arn.org...

So in whole video you connected only to Isaac Newton - because you believe him being religious. Here is nice article on Isaac newton and his religion.

You know, it might be hard to fill all holes in your education. Why don't you start telling us a bit about yourself - age, what schools and when did you attend. I am sorry to say, but your teachers did terrible job in passing knowledge.

And decide what you like to talk about, be it abiogenesis, astronomy, evolution, etc. just pick one at the time.

Here is shorter video, but has some interesting points and explanation how off are those believing in creation:

pleasethink
reply to post by SuperFrog

 

If nothing made us, then what keeps the law of gravity constant?

Gravity isnt constant it depends on mass

propose you throw a plastic bottle at a wall. Count how many times the bottle lands in the same place. This is a random act and imposes random results. Gravity always stays the same. The speed of light always stays the same.So on and so on. If nothing designed this then how do these laws exist. In a random world a thinking mind would think random results would incur. But they don't.

No actually several things can change the speed of light the medium such as water.This is why you see people say the speed of light in a vacuum so you know what speed it will travel at.The laws exist because its called physics it starts out very small dealing with particles. Particles only react in a couple of ways so naturally there would be rules. An example is lego blocks you have millions of pieces but all those pieces fit together the same way and because of how they're put together there is restrictions.For example you can only connect legos on the top and the bottom and not on the sides. Just realize there is nothing truly random that is a human construct.we invented it when we cant show the math involved instead we had to design a different form of math and that uses whats called probability theory.

Anyway, I watched your video. Isaac Newton, the genius of the world according to Degrasse Tyson, was almost insanely religious. Look it up. This according to him was the smartest man that ever lived. A bit contradictory I would say. Please look at this:
www.arn.org...

I think you would find if you dug deeper Isaac Newton wasnt what you think he studied the occult. He studied alchemy and was deeply interested in Solomon and demons.He wasnt what you would consider a christian by any means he believed there was a hidden ancient knowledge. And did some strange things to try to tap into that knowledge.Also believed you could invoke angels and even control them.

reply to post by dragonridr


Speed of light does change through different mediums, but it is considered a constant. If you don't believe that, than how could it ever be applied in a mathematical formula? Random numbers give random solutions. Would make physicists job very hard. As a person who has studied different types of engineering principles(although no expert, mind you), I could tell you there are many things excepted as constant which makes such mathematical formulations possible. Also, to say math was created by man is a stretch, cause wouldn't that imply that there are no other known forms of life in the universe? Kind of defeats the life generates randomly argument others have made, which I'm sure you probably support, given the context of our discourse. And Isaac Newton was literally obsessed with trying to calculate the exact date of the end of the world through utilizing information found in the Bible. Could possibly be considered the forefather of the Bible code movement. Anyways, it is nice to hear opposing views, and you seem intelligent. My purpose is to simply point out the magnificence/complexity of creation, and to state that as a thinking man I would have to consider myself blind to not see the order in these things. I would literally have to convince myself what I know to be true is false. This is not based upon belief, this is based upon analysis of available information. If you knew me you would understand. Here hopefully is another random thing expressing complex geometric patterns. Enjoy the beauty and magnitude.

reply to post by SuperFrog


I believe that I already proved that I understood evolution a little better than you appear to. No offense. It starts at the beginning. You are trying to explain the base form of evolution(abiogenesis) as if they were somehow disconnected, which shows that maybe your own understanding is flawed.

SuperFrog

Lingweenie
As far as science vs. religion is concerned, yes both are usually wrong.

This is another fail argument - if religion(s) are wrong - so its science as well. Throw 100 coins from highest building around and check how many of them will prove theory of gravity wrong. (make sure you don't jump, as I am sure you will agree that science is correct there, and most likely you will not fly into sky...

Lingweenie
There are many scientific theories, and there are many religions out there. Not all of them could be right. There will certainly be a whole lot more wrongs than rights on both sides.

Only difference is that once scientist find something new, that replaces something old and with testing manage to prove it, we all move along and accept new theory.

In religion you have still people believing in little angry man in sky.

Lingweenie
But I have to say I admire science because people are actively looking around for answers, and testing their theories and hypotheses. When it comes to religion they don't really bother trying to test their ideas, and everything is pretty much set in stone. Unless they go out with a biased mindset trying to prove their own faith. They have accepted everything they up hold is truth, and there is no point trying to look for answers.

There is nothing there to test. For example, there is no single piece evidence outside of bible to point that Jesus, Moses or Abraham ever existed. It should not be hard to imagine how religious folks reacts on this findings.

Lingweenie
So at least science attempting to find things out. While religion is comfortable with their views and feel no need to experiment. Religions are more lazy quite frankly.

Tell that to OP - Just as Father George has said - scripture and science come from 2 different times, there is no science in scripture, but that does not go well with this fundamentalist way of thinking...

Lingweenie
Plus, I never understood why science and religion are pitted against each other sometimes. Science would actually help religion. It would just further your understanding, and make us closer to the universe, or "god" if you want to say that. They both have a common goal; Answering the big questions people have been asking.

Science can't prove you God existence - it is belief - something science does not do well.

If you have time, please take a look at this video:

edit on 1-2-2014 by SuperFrog because: (no reason given)

Yeah, I'd agree. We basically had the same things to say. I'll check out that video here in a moment.

Edit: As far as your first paragraphs goes, I was talking about scientific theories. Not laws.

reply to post by Lingweenie


Also, as far as Isaac Newton,

en.wikipedia.org...

Again, there is literally information that maybe you guys want to look at before typing. Also, there is a hand signal that Neil Degrasse Tyson makes in this video that I found interesting at a crucial point while he is hammering home a point. Maybe when you watch it you should look at that. Then read about conditioned responses/ mentalism. It is at play in all things, working to control the way you think.

pleasethink
reply to post by Lingweenie

 

Also, as far as Isaac Newton,

en.wikipedia.org...

Again, there is literally information that maybe you guys want to look at before typing. Also, there is a hand signal that Neil Degrasse Tyson makes in this video that I found interesting at a crucial point while he is hammering home a point. Maybe when you watch it you should look at that. Then read about conditioned responses/ mentalism. It is at play in all things, working to control the way you think.

So, what did Newton contribute that proves the existence of god? Nothing.

Just because he aligned himself with a religion doesn't mean anything.

reply to post by SuperFrog


Charles Darwin addressed the question, suggesting that the original spark of life may have begun in a "warm little pond, with all sorts of ammonia and phosphoric salts, lights, heat, electricity, etc. present, so that a protein compound was chemically formed ready to undergo still more complex changes".

Sounds a lot like abiogenesis doesn't it, thus being the first form of evolution. This is getting funny to me. I would feel bad but you are pretty mean. So please continue showing your superior(?) edumakation.

reply to post by Lingweenie


So did he align himself with a religion or didn't he? I have heard both and it confuses me so. Anyways, I was merely pointing it out that according to the video that was posted, the learned speaker(Degrasse Tyson, a man I personally like and respect btw), stated that he wasthe most intelligent man to have walked the earth. He just so happened to also be insanely religious. Thats all. Take from it what you will.

pleasethink
reply to post by Lingweenie

 

In doing so I realized that there is present in that book a wisdom impossible to have been attained by man. We just aren't that smart.

What wisdom are you talking about that us humans are to "dumb" to comprehend?

When the bible was popular, most common people were not educated. And didn't know how to read or write. We didn't know nearly as much about the world/universe like we do now. So in turn, people tried to describe the world they were in the best that they could with what they knew at the time.

People may have been unable to comprehend back then, but nowadays, we have more knowledge, technology, and resources.

pleasethink
reply to post by Lingweenie

 

So did he align himself with a religion or didn't he? I have heard both and it confuses me so. Anyways, I was merely pointing it out that according to the video that was posted, the learned speaker(Degrasse Tyson, a man I personally like and respect btw), stated that he wasthe most intelligent man to have walked the earth. He just so happened to also be insanely religious. Thats all. Take from it what you will.

edit on 1-2-2014 by pleasethink because: (no reason given)

I never said Newton wasn't religious. I never even brought him up until you said something about him.

He may have had a lot of faith, but the major things he contributed didn't have anything to do with religion. They would neither prove or disprove the existence of god.

Just because a smart mans believes in a religion doesn't make it true. Plenty of smart scientists alive and dead have held beliefs and disbeliefs in god. Whatever image of god that may be.

reply to post by Lingweenie


This is a common misconception. Many people nowadays have a tendency to think that humans back then were less intelligent than they are now. I believe the opposite is true. In fact there is a gentleman, by the name of Wally Wallington I believe(I could be wrong). He took an ancient mystery(the building of stonehenge) which so many people were like "Aliens must have did it" and did something very similar in his backyard using only the principles of leverage. The scientists of today were able to date the probable destruction of Sodom/Gomorrah by reading hand drawn(!) star maps that were so accurate they were able to use computer software to date the appearance of an anomalous artifact they thought was a meteor strike, and assess the approximate location of the meteor strike using the same hand drawn map. This is an astonishing amount of accuracy from a guy with a chalk on a mountain. The wisdom I speak of is not only of a scientific nature(see link from previous comment) but of a spiritual nature. How to be in tune with the Maker. In the Bible it refers to it as God lifting you up so He can look you in the eye. I know you might be trying to mock me, but I do appreciate the interest. So thanks.