IF jesus returned, how would we know it was him?

I would say after reading those last scriptures I posted, we wont have time to wonder.

ketsuko
reply to post by Krazysh0t

 

*shrug* We ALL believe. Even you.

You know it wasn't until I was older that I realized angels were warriors.

Krazysh0t
Well he certainly wouldn't call himself "Jesus." That's not his real name. Whatever you are picturing in your head of what Jesus looked like is probably wrong as well. He didn't look like a bearded white hippy.

It's called The Great and Terrible Day of the Lord for a reason, and it won't be because He comes in riding a donkey barefoot and humble. He will come as great and terrible conqueror king.

It's one of the reasons why I say no one in their right mind looks forward to the Apocalypse. It won't be a nice time, even if you're on the right side of things. Read Stormdancer's description of the day. Does that sound like a happy, fun thing to you?

Krazysh0t
reply to post by Logarock

 

What a great way to spread peace and tranquility, through the point of a sword. Nothing says, be peaceful like killing large swaths of people huh? Christianity 101.

There never was any directive for christians to spread christianity at the point of a sword.

Believe it or not even a kingdom of mixed nations on earth will eventually fail under Jesus and there will be another major battle at the end of His rule. At which time his will be gathered out of harms way and He will burn the whole thing with fire. Then He will start over with the "redeemed" out of the human race.

Stormdancer777

Krazysh0t
Well he certainly wouldn't call himself "Jesus." That's not his real name. Whatever you are picturing in your head of what Jesus looked like is probably wrong as well. He didn't look like a bearded white hippy.

there is a description

And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:

king of kings and lord of lords.

And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”

Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army. But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. The rest were killed with the sword coming out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.

And you know that this ISN'T a metaphor why? Many people view may of the more extra-ordinary events in the bible as metaphors and not to be taken literally, so why is this not a metaphor as well?

Jarring
Someone can't just claim they are the messiah and get away with it.

Jesus himself didn't really get away with it, either.

ketsuko
reply to post by Krazysh0t

 

*shrug* We ALL believe. Even you.

Believe in what? Because looking at how science works, I find it highly dubious that a man that lived 2000 years ago will ride out of the clouds leading an army of angels to smite the world's evils. I also find that story highly insulting of the human race in that we (humans) need to rely on an outside force to fix humanity's problems and that we cannot fix our own problems.

Well i did watch that movie called the man from earth. It was a trip

Indeed..... not many people have seen that movie..... great idea for a movie!

Cuervo

Jarring
Someone can't just claim they are the messiah and get away with it.

Jesus himself didn't really get away with it, either.

Yes! Jesus proved that coming peacefully with healing on His wings would not move those in power or mankind in general to make Him King. On His second appearance He will use force. In the end He will simply remove all non-believers and will end the cohabitation experiment.

Logarock

Krazysh0t
reply to post by Logarock

 

What a great way to spread peace and tranquility, through the point of a sword. Nothing says, be peaceful like killing large swaths of people huh? Christianity 101.

There never was any directive for christians to spread christianity at the point of a sword.

Didn't stop the RCC from doing it for centuries though. Look at the conquering of the peoples living in the Americas or the Spanish Inquisition.

Believe it or not even a kingdom of mixed nations on earth will eventually fail under Jesus and there will be another major battle at the end of His rule. At which time his will be gathered out of harms way and He will burn the whole thing with fire. Then He will start over with the "redeemed" out of the human race.

WRONG!

Atheism Rises, Religiosity Declines In America

Can't get any more mixed than in America and even we are having a rise in atheism.

Logarock

Krazysh0t
reply to post by Logarock

 

What a great way to spread peace and tranquility, through the point of a sword. Nothing says, be peaceful like killing large swaths of people huh? Christianity 101.

There never was any directive for christians to spread christianity at the point of a sword.

Believe it or not even a kingdom of mixed nations on earth will eventually fail under Jesus and there will be another major battle at the end of His rule. At which time his will be gathered out of harms way and He will burn the whole thing with fire. Then He will start over with the "redeemed" out of the human race.

I thought that was supposed to happen already with the flood. The OT god saved only the "righteous" in order to start over yet... here we are again. Even the Nazis learned their lesson at imposing eugenics by the sword so why would a god try it again?

reply to post by Krazysh0t


You believe in the secular humanity, and from your responses, I can deduce that you believe in it with religious fervor.

As I said, we ALL believe.

reply to post by Krazysh0t


Yes, and the point of this age we are all going through now is to show us that we are not capable of achieving peace and prosperity on our own. Can you prove this is not true? No religion or political system has yet been able to achieve anything even close to utopia.

Face it. Humans are flawed and they screw up everything they touch.

And that's the point of all this.

ketsuko
reply to post by Krazysh0t

 

You believe in the secular humanity, and from your responses, I can deduce that you believe in it with religious fervor.

As I said, we ALL believe.

You deduce incorrectly, I do not believe in anything with religious fervor. I am an agnostic. I've definitely told you this before. This is why I said this line in a previous post in this thread:

I find it highly dubious that a man that lived 2000 years ago will ride out of the clouds leading an army of angels to smite the world's evils

Meaning that I don't even subscribe to that line of thinking 100%. Sure I believe that it is 90 - 99% the most likely answer, but I always leave room for any possibility. I am not foolish enough to believe in anything with 100% conviction.

I just started another thread in this forums about defining evil (this topic caused me to make it), you should weigh in on it.

Cuervo

Logarock

Krazysh0t
reply to post by Logarock

 

What a great way to spread peace and tranquility, through the point of a sword. Nothing says, be peaceful like killing large swaths of people huh? Christianity 101.

There never was any directive for christians to spread christianity at the point of a sword.

Believe it or not even a kingdom of mixed nations on earth will eventually fail under Jesus and there will be another major battle at the end of His rule. At which time his will be gathered out of harms way and He will burn the whole thing with fire. Then He will start over with the "redeemed" out of the human race.

I thought that was supposed to happen already with the flood. The OT god saved only the "righteous" in order to start over yet... here we are again. Even the Nazis learned their lesson at imposing eugenics by the sword so why would a god try it again?

Because this time, we are doing it His way. Every other time, He let us go our way.

So, we make our choice - His way or the high way.

ketsuko

Cuervo

Logarock

Krazysh0t
reply to post by Logarock

 

What a great way to spread peace and tranquility, through the point of a sword. Nothing says, be peaceful like killing large swaths of people huh? Christianity 101.

There never was any directive for christians to spread christianity at the point of a sword.

Believe it or not even a kingdom of mixed nations on earth will eventually fail under Jesus and there will be another major battle at the end of His rule. At which time his will be gathered out of harms way and He will burn the whole thing with fire. Then He will start over with the "redeemed" out of the human race.

I thought that was supposed to happen already with the flood. The OT god saved only the "righteous" in order to start over yet... here we are again. Even the Nazis learned their lesson at imposing eugenics by the sword so why would a god try it again?

Because this time, we are doing it His way. Every other time, He let us go our way.

So, we make our choice - His way or the high way.

The the flood supposedly only left a handful of people that he chose. How much more "his way" can you get? Do you see what I'm getting at? Is the trend going to be that your god just hits the reset button every few thousand years?

reply to post by Krazysh0t


Sorry, but the emotion in your posts doesn't quite hold that up.

You can get awfully hostile. If you were a perfect agnostic, it wouldn't ruffle your feathers the way it does because my understanding of agnostics is that they are open ... At least the ones I know are that way. They don't know what to believe because they are waiting to have something proven to them. In other words, they are intellectually curious about it all.

Cuervo

Logarock

Krazysh0t
reply to post by Logarock

 

What a great way to spread peace and tranquility, through the point of a sword. Nothing says, be peaceful like killing large swaths of people huh? Christianity 101.

There never was any directive for christians to spread christianity at the point of a sword.

Believe it or not even a kingdom of mixed nations on earth will eventually fail under Jesus and there will be another major battle at the end of His rule. At which time his will be gathered out of harms way and He will burn the whole thing with fire. Then He will start over with the "redeemed" out of the human race.

I thought that was supposed to happen already with the flood. The OT god saved only the "righteous" in order to start over yet... here we are again. Even the Nazis learned their lesson at imposing eugenics by the sword so why would a god try it again?

The flood showed that even after such an event that evil once more slipped onto the ark and became, from that little seed, Mystery Babylon. It showed that cohabitation would only produce corruption that will grow to corrupt the whole as it ended up doing His chosen people. That is why in the end, the very end, the earth will be fully purged and only those who will "be like Him" will be allowed to live on a new heaven and new earth. Jesus rule on the earth will show that not even with Him as King here in the flesh will there be any real cohabitation developed with his and humanity at large.

reply to post by Cuervo


Oh, I saw what you were getting at. Maybe you missed what I said.

After he did that (assuming you go literal here), he then left Noah and his family on their own to try again without direct guidance. He occasionally sent prophets, but that's it. People were more or less left to their own devices to try to do as he wanted.

This time around, Christ will stay and rule directly. It will be direct guidance. No more humans muddling about on their own.

The point of the church age is supposed to be to demonstrate that mankind is not capable of creating our own perfectly just societies without Him.

And can you say we've been able to do that? With or without any kind of God?

reply to post by ketsuko


My hostility doesn't extend to other religions though, only Christianity. And the reason for that is because of how the church acts so high and mighty even though Christians clearly worship the same god as Jews and Muslims. Then they constantly tell everyone to convert or burn and if not doing that they are constantly trying to tell everyone that the world is going to end (something that apparently has been imminent for the last 2000 years). Christianity is probably the worst religion to ever grace our race. Oh yeah and I was raised Catholic. I'd go on about how I hate that particular sect of Christianity, but this is quickly becoming a rant and I'd also rather not explain my belief structure to someone on the internet all because they make brash assumptions about me based on my internet persona.