Mexico legalizes vigilantes, nabs cartel leader

reply to post by WonderBoi


Because the Mexican constitution clearly specifies that if the government fails to protect, provide and in general function, the Mexican people can create a new form of government and take care of everything by themselves, effectively removing the old non-functional government and instating their own, this is what has happened there.

Then, if you have a new government, the laws from the old one do not apply anymore, that's why no one has been able to take the guns from them, it would be suicidal to do, the official government knows they are not official anymore, they are trying to get back control of those lands, that's why the had to make a pact, but they know that they are not the government anymore, their only hope is that eventually the civilian groups will disband and then they can quietly go back and take back the land.

Just check this out, the military had to ask for permission to go through the town, they're not even able to go through the streets if the people doesn't want them to, they are not in control of anything anymore, and they know it.

j2000

Logarock

j2000

Our constitution basically demands the same things out of standing militia. Not the gun registration naturally but officers in a standing militia are under regular military command if they were ever required. Members are also subject to military courts and inquiry for actions under arms.

But great for Mexico! I just wish they wouldn't call them vigilantes in the american press. Has a negative connotation. And be certain they are probably not calling them militia for a reason. Word to the wise.

Where is that in our Constitution?
A link maybe?

The 5th amendment

"No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.[1]

The 2nd amendment

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.


Folks often overlook the first part of the 2nd amendment. Yes the average citizen has the right to keep and to bear but the moment you form up into a body, that body, known as a militia, is subject to "regulation" at least during a "time of war or public danger". The legal standing of a militia and its members then falls under that part of the 5th listed above. When under arms you are subject to a courts marshal and military law at least to the extent that your right to a grand jury is waved.....which is a great extent considering that you can be summarily executed by order of a courts martial.

reply to post by Logarock


Ok, good to provide that.
Maybe this would lend an explanation as to why they are be referred to as vigilantes instead of a Militia. But again this is in Mexico, so our constitution has little to do with it. They do not have the Right to bear arms there.

reply to post by j2000


Holy molly...working with vigilante groups? Sounds like they are going down a crazy path..the trick is shutting down the group when the job is done...I would be interested to see when that line is drawn.

But hey, way to think out of the box...we had a militia way back when (still do) why shouldn't they do the same?

Has anyone yet considered the government is so damn corrupt that the lists of militia members will be in Cartel hands within hours of its being turned in to the army?
Sure the Mexican cops wear masks to hide their identity from Cartel vengeance, but the poor Vaqueros have to stand tall.....wheres the justice?
These peasants need a better support system than that......
Why are we arming alQueda terrorists and leaving honest Mexicans who have the courage to stand against the cartels instead of emmigrating north, to fight the well armed Cartels with inferior weapons?????....
How about a Fast and Furious deux? with a different set of recipients?

stirling
Has anyone yet considered the government is so damn corrupt that the lists of militia members will be in Cartel hands within hours of its being turned in to the army?
Sure the Mexican cops wear masks to hide their identity from Cartel vengeance, but the poor Vaqueros have to stand tall.....wheres the justice?
These peasants need a better support system than that......
Why are we arming alQueda terrorists and leaving honest Mexicans who have the courage to stand against the cartels instead of emmigrating north, to fight the well armed Cartels with inferior weapons?????....
How about a Fast and Furious deux? with a different set of recipients?

Hehe, to answer the first part of your post, they are not that dumb, i can't say how things will turn out for them, but i know they have stated firmly that they won't give up any guns until they see each and everyone of the gang members go away, and even then they already said "we won't sign any list". And they are not obliged to do, the constitution allows them to keep their arms, as long as the government fails to keep things in order, something that has already happened by now.

About the second part, they don't have inferior weapons, on the contrary, the have ak-47, granades, and even barrets, which the government has asked to promptly deliver to them, something i doubt will happen anytime soon.

As i was saying before, the Mexican constitution allows what they are doing, because the government has failed to do the work they were hired to do, the original founders already thought of this possible situation, so they made sure the constitution addressed the problem, by stating that the population is free to create a separate form of government if the deem the current government failed to provide security, enforce law or in any other way failed to keep things in control, and this has already happened, so there's no one around who can just go there and take the guns from them. And you can see the results, suddenly town by town, violence stops, people feel safe, criminals end up on the run, either been captured or killed, what a difference from two or three months ago, when the government was in control.

Probably some of the guns from Fast and Furious have ended up in hands of the Mexican rebels hehe.

The US will NEVER go against the cartels, the entire US addict population depends on those guys being able to make it through the border. If ever the commoners take control of this on Mexico, somehow the US will have to make presence, to ensure the supply keeps coming in.