Mexico legalizes vigilantes, nabs cartel leader

Just as a few here had predicted, but all is not well yet.

news.yahoo.com... -leader-001339749.html

Mexico essentially legalized the country's growing "self-defense" groups Monday, while also announcing that security forces had captured one of the four top leaders of the Knights Templar drug cartel, which the vigilante groups have been fighting for the last year.

Now maybe their leaders have gone corrupt as well...

The government said it had reached an agreement with vigilante leaders to incorporate the armed civilian groups into old and largely forgotten quasi-military units called the Rural Defense Corps. Vigilante groups estimate their numbers at 20,000 men under arms.

Here is the Big Brother Attitude.

Police and soldiers already largely tolerate, and in some cases even work with, the vigilantes, many of whom are armed with assault rifles that civilians are not allowed to carry.

And here is the BIG Catch.

Vigilante leaders will have to submit a list of their members to the Defense Department, and the army will apparently oversee the groups, which the government said "will be temporary." They will be allowed to keep their weapons as long as they register them with the army.

This will only be bad as they still do not have a grip on their country. I think this is just a way to control them and put back what they had. But now they know where to collect all them guns and whom to go kill next.

Sad really. I was hoping for a better path to clean that mess up down there and maybe even shed some light this way.

So are these gang names on purpose here? Just reading this stuff seems a repeat of history.

Rev. Javier Cortes, part of a team of priests in the Roman Catholic diocese of Apatzingan who have publicly denounced abuses by the Knights Templar.

reply to post by j2000


The only problem I see here is that he was captured instead of killed. More than likely, he'll be out soon enough thanks to the corruption of the Mexican Government, probably with a list of names also.

I'm glad to hear at least someone is trying to do something about the cartels in Mexico though, even if it is mostly just citizens. Their Government hasn't done much, so that pretty much leaves only them to deal with it.

j2000
So are these gang names on purpose here? Just reading this stuff seems a repeat of history.

Rev. Javier Cortes, part of a team of priests in the Roman Catholic diocese of Apatzingan who have publicly denounced abuses by the Knights Templar.

Id doubt it, if you go read some of Cortez letters to Charles V, parts of them are pretty damn screwy. There was one man by the name of Casas was more truthful about interactions with the mexican natives. So I doubt the name Cortez would be used as some sort of you know, "save the natives" type standpoint.

Vigilante leaders will have to submit a list of their members to the Defense Department, and the army will apparently oversee the groups, which the government said "will be temporary." They will be allowed to keep their weapons as long as they register them with the army.

Nice. So the government permits them to exist as long as they remain useful to the government.

In the meantime send the government a list of all your members and all your arms.

Then when you are no longer of any use to the government or god forbid you actually pose a threat to said government it's round-up time.

Mexico has a state department?

Interesting: photo

reply to post by j2000


Sounds lile good news to me

I wish they would do this in the states

Then maybe we could defend ourselves from the corrupt police gangs and federal mob

Wouldn't that be nice. Yes it would

Maybe its time i head to Mexico

reply to post by j2000


I dont think the military backing them is an awful thing at this point. I try to view it as maybe they inspired their leaders to hop on the bandwagon for the greater good. The best part is...this rebellious group....aint going back...if the army tries messing with them they will cut ties and start over at square one again.

I do not see a conspiracy in asking the militia members to register their guns or membership. In Mexico gun possession by citizens is a felony and punishable by prison. So while this could protect a "vigilante" from going to prison it can also get them killed.

Mexico being as corrupt as it is means that any lists that the Cartels think they need will be bought and paid for. The "vigilante's" will be picked off and killed one at a time, probably at home with all family members killed as well.

No conspiracy but a lot of danger none the less.

Another_Nut
reply to post by j2000

 

Sounds lile good news to me

I wish they would do this in the states

Then maybe we could defend ourselves from the corrupt police gangs and federal mob

Wouldn't that be nice. Yes it would

Maybe its time i head to Mexico

I don't think I will be packing my bags yet.

This is just a start for the people and now they are already letting the corrupt Govt come in.

Mamatus
I do not see a conspiracy in asking the militia members to register their guns or membership. In Mexico gun possession by citizens is a felony and punishable by prison. So while this could protect a "vigilante" from going to prison it can also get them killed.

Mexico being as corrupt as it is means that any lists that the Cartels think they need will be bought and paid for. The "vigilante's" will be picked off and killed one at a time, probably at home with all family members killed as well.

No conspiracy but a lot of danger none the less.

edit on 28-1-2014 by Mamatus because: Gwammer and speeeeling

And how is what you explained not a Conspiracy?? It is a plan to make a list and use it against them at a future time.

reply to post by j2000


Do you have any evidence for your claim? Perhaps a link to something that the rest of us are unaware of? Now if you can find some kind of evidence that the Cartels have asked, bribed or coerced the Mexican Government to make such a list you have something.

If you don't? Well then it's just a random guess.

thisguyrighthere

.

Nice. So the government permits them to exist as long as they remain useful to the government.

In the meantime send the government a list of all your members and all your arms.

Then when you are no longer of any use to the government or god forbid you actually pose a threat to said government it's round-up time.

I wonder if the Govt thinks they are useful or not.

Why has the Govt not asked it citizens to arm up against the Drug Lords before?

Mamatus
reply to post by j2000

 

Do you have any evidence for your claim? Perhaps a link to something that the rest of us are unaware of? Now if you can find some kind of evidence that the Cartels have asked, bribed or coerced the Mexican Government to make such a list you have something.

If you don't? Well then it's just a random guess.

What? Your kidding right?! How could you have evidence of something not happed yet.
My claim is as strong as yours as it could go either way.

The truth of the matter is that groups like this actually WORK. It was seen with Los Pepes when Escobar was at the height of his power, although a special US surveillance team actually gave them the intelligence they needed...But they still did the dirty work. But, and this is a big but, this only works when the groups are anonymous, like they were. Mexico is notoriously corrupt politically speaking. If there is a list of names for all the people in these groups, it is only a matter of time before the cartel wages war against as many of these individuals, and their families, as possible.

And it is a good strategy for the cartels, because it will show anyone pondering joining one of these groups that doing so is a death sentence. This still might not deter some people, and this is why the cartels will go after the member's family as well. Because while some people will risk their own lives, they are less apt to risk the lives of the people they love.

So the only solution to the problem, if the government actually wants these groups to function and work, is to keep them anonymous. Another huge problem will be the cartel infiltrating such groups. They must be tight-knit. Another huge problem is that the cartels can pay better. So the most useful vigilantes are the ones who cannot be bought. So I don't think this system is going to work, and it actually is just going to cause more deaths. The only way it will work is to make some changes to keep the groups anonymous. But anonymity for groups going around killing people can also have negative consequences. The cartels will exploit any weakness they can see in those coming after them, so it wouldn't surprise me if they formed groups masquerading as vigilantes, and started doing things that will turn public opinion against these groups.

JiggyPotamus
The truth of the matter is that groups like this actually WORK. It was seen with Los Pepes when Escobar was at the height of his power, although a special US surveillance team actually gave them the intelligence they needed...But they still did the dirty work. But, and this is a big but, this only works when the groups are anonymous, like they were. Mexico is notoriously corrupt politically speaking. If there is a list of names for all the people in these groups, it is only a matter of time before the cartel wages war against as many of these individuals, and their families, as possible.

And it is a good strategy for the cartels, because it will show anyone pondering joining one of these groups that doing so is a death sentence. This still might not deter some people, and this is why the cartels will go after the member's family as well. Because while some people will risk their own lives, they are less apt to risk the lives of the people they love.

So the only solution to the problem, if the government actually wants these groups to function and work, is to keep them anonymous. Another huge problem will be the cartel infiltrating such groups. They must be tight-knit. Another huge problem is that the cartels can pay better. So the most useful vigilantes are the ones who cannot be bought. So I don't think this system is going to work, and it actually is just going to cause more deaths. The only way it will work is to make some changes to keep the groups anonymous. But anonymity for groups going around killing people can also have negative consequences. The cartels will exploit any weakness they can see in those coming after them, so it wouldn't surprise me if they formed groups masquerading as vigilantes, and started doing things that will turn public opinion against these groups.

Very good Jiggy.
I don't see any good coming from a list either.

j2000
Just as a few here had predicted, but all is not well yet.

The government said it had reached an agreement with vigilante leaders to incorporate the armed civilian groups into old and largely forgotten quasi-military units called the Rural Defense Corps. Vigilante groups estimate their numbers at 20,000 men under arms.

Here is the Big Brother Attitude.

Police and soldiers already largely tolerate, and in some cases even work with, the vigilantes, many of whom are armed with assault rifles that civilians are not allowed to carry.

And here is the BIG Catch.

Vigilante leaders will have to submit a list of their members to the Defense Department, and the army will apparently oversee the groups, which the government said "will be temporary." They will be allowed to keep their weapons as long as they register them with the army.

This will only be bad as they still do not have a grip on their country. I think this is just a way to control them and put back what they had. But now they know where to collect all them guns and whom to go kill next.

Sad really. I was hoping for a better path to clean that mess up down there and maybe even shed some light this way.

Our constitution basically demands the same things out of standing militia. Not the gun registration naturally but officers in a standing militia are under regular military command if they were ever required. Members are also subject to military courts and inquiry for actions under arms.

But great for Mexico! I just wish they wouldn't call them vigilantes in the american press. Has a negative connotation. And be certain they are probably not calling them militia for a reason. Word to the wise.

Logarock

j2000

Our constitution basically demands the same things out of standing militia. Not the gun registration naturally but officers in a standing militia are under regular military command if they were ever required. Members are also subject to military courts and inquiry for actions under arms.

But great for Mexico! I just wish they wouldn't call them vigilantes in the american press. Has a negative connotation. And be certain they are probably not calling them militia for a reason. Word to the wise.

Where is that in our Constitution?
A link maybe?

Not sure if people are aware of this, or not, but guns are ILLEGAL in Mexico. Illegal! Plain and simple. Get caught with one and you WILL go to jail.

Don’t bring firearms or ammunition across the border into Mexico.

Don’t carry a knife, even a small pocketknife, on your person in Mexico.

You may become one of dozens of U.S. Citizens who are arrested each month for unintentionally violating Mexico’s strict weapons laws.

If you are caught with firearms or ammunition in Mexico...
*You will go to jail and your vehicle will be seized;
*You will be separated from your family, friends, and your job, and likely suffer substantial financial hardship;
*You will pay court costs and other fees ranging into the tens of thousands of dollars defending yourself;
*You may get up to a 30-year sentence in a Mexican prison if found guilty.

consulate

How can they have "vigilantes", if guns are illegal?

Mamatus
I do not see a conspiracy in asking the militia members to register their guns or membership. In Mexico gun possession by citizens is a felony and punishable by prison. So while this could protect a "vigilante" from going to prison it can also get them killed.

Mexico being as corrupt as it is means that any lists that the Cartels think they need will be bought and paid for. The "vigilante's" will be picked off and killed one at a time, probably at home with all family members killed as well.

No conspiracy but a lot of danger none the less.

edit on 28-1-2014 by Mamatus because: Gwammer and speeeeling

Not quite right, in Mexico, the constitution allows to form a separate form of government if it is deemed the current one has fail to provide or fails to keep things under control, in this case, both have happened, clearly, police was colluded with the gangs, from the guy on the street to the governor, the army and anyone in between, so clearly the government has stopped functioning.

Those armed civilians are actually under the law, as specified on the constitution, they needed to remove the current government and instate a new one, and they did, suddenly the gangs where not able to work anymore and had to run out, in a few months, what the previous government could not do in 12 years or more.

So now what happens? the same government that caused all the killing and violence comes around and says they are "allowing" them to take care of themselves? it sounds to me more like a plan to eventually disband those groups and get things back to how they were, except they were already banished from those lands, they lost the right to govern, the people on those towns haven't figured it out yet, they had earned they independence, but then, for some reason, they gave it up again..