What would happen if....

reply to post by NullVoid

shaneslaughta
I agree with the above poster. Valuable commodities are the only real winners. Our paper money is backed only by the amount of people using it. Not by any amount of gold stashed away.

Yup already covered that in my first post.

reply to post by shaneslaughta


Yes of course you are right, the risk is less. Not no risk, but less risk. Want to be the one at the front of the queue when the blind comes down and the sign goes up saying "sorry due to unprecedented demand and over selling of stock we never actually physically had, we have run out of gold. Please come back later"

Mufcutcakeyumyum
reply to post by shaneslaughta

 

Yes of course you are right, the risk is less. Not no risk, but less risk. Want to be the one at the front of the queue when the blind comes down and the sign goes up saying "sorry due to unprecedented demand and over selling of stock we never actually physically had, we have run out of gold. Please come back later"

Hahaha so true. I would fear the chinese come and make us debtor slaves should that happen.

Darn forgot to take off my foil hat when i came inside.

reply to post by EA006

If the elite have TRILLIONS of $$$ hidden away on offshore accounts what would happen if it all made it back to the U.S suddenly?

As this a "what if" thread can I ask why would the elite pay the national debt?

So if the $17tr was payed off it would also damage America?

If they are greedy power hungry like many perceive them to be why would they generously give up their trillions to pay a national debt?

the Chinese are presently returning up to 3 Trillion USDs... they are buying up real estate, commercial properties, Banks, and all sorts of real assets, like that pork processing corporation

they are also taking physical possession of PM's, gold, platinum, silver etc...mostly from the vaults in the USA but much from London too.

so they are diversifying their asset accumulation in redeeming USTreasury bonds etc (or USA Dollars) so that the bottom does not fall out before they have unloaded the vast majority of their holdings (est $4 trillion)


by this stealth cashing-in operaion the Chinese get the best value for their bucks... if the MSM actually reported the deals they are doing in a full expose'... then there might be more fear of financial collapse, re-sets, bank-runs here in the (depression level economy) USA

reply to post by InhaleExhale


I was speculating a bit. It is a what if thread.
I was seeing America being sent down the pan for a while, kinda part of the plan but i was thinking there would be a way back to the top. Like a restart. No debt would mean a stronger America. That's also why i mentioned the New American century paper.

reply to post by St Udio


Thanks for the post. The devil really is in the details.

schuyler

EA006
reply to post by EA006

 

I see this threads being avoided like the plague. Thanks ATS members

What gives you the impression that yet another totally conjectural thread is the most important thing for ATS members to reply to at 7:45 in the morning?

It's GMT here. But thanks for your input. Constructive.

EA006
reply to post by Krazysh0t

 

You're right i meant debt.
So if the $17tr was payed off it would also damage America?

Yes, that is correct. Here are two articles for you to peruse:

What If We Paid Off The Debt? The Secret Government Report

The U.S. borrows money by selling bonds. So the end of debt would mean the end of Treasury bonds.

Crisis of the U.S. Dollar System

In August 1971, Nixon finally broke the Bretton Woods agreement, and refused to redeem dollars for gold. He had not enough gold to give. That turn opened a most remarkable phase of world economic history. After 1971 the dollar was fixed not to an ounce of gold, something measurable. It was fixed only to the printing press of the Treasury and Federal Reserve.

The dollar became a political currency—do you have “confidence” in the US as the defender of the Free World? At first Washington did not appreciate what a weapon it had created after it broke from gold. It acted out of necessity, as its gold reserves had got dangerously low. It used its role as the pillar of NATO and free world security to demand allies continue to accept its dollars as before.

Why do you think a dollar bill says "This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private"?

reply to post by Krazysh0t


Thanks. I'm off to read these

NullVoid

shaneslaughta

Mufcutcakeyumyum
so you'd be in danger of exchanging one piece of paper for another.

If its 100% backed by items of value your risk is less as they don't print more then they have to back it.

US Dollar is not backed by anything, ok, maybe USA economy, but then, isnt that a loop ?
Currently I think USD is a lot like Zimbabwean dollar.
Trillions! its just you dont see it. Its just a little paper, backed by Goverment promises.

Ultimately? I think that is the bottom line. All the gold ever mined in the history of man and this planet comes to an estimate of less than 8 trillion by current market price and US Dollars. (And nothing near ALL of it is still in existence to use or count) That means the traditional base for money is already so totally blown into meaningless nonsense for the numbers involved? It's really monopoly money chasing monopoly money.

What would happen if..say..near 300 trillion in derivatives and who knows how many tens or hundreds of trillions in other "financial products" were to hit the open US market at once? Well...Whatever they said happened, I guess. Since they set values, amounts and distribution without even telling the public anymore (The M- figure which showed that was discontinued for public release under Bush).

Isn't it fun being in a game where both the rules and play style are entirely set by one side of the direct participants IN the game? Too bad we're on the losing end of that equation.

you seem to forget that 60% of america cannot point to the u.k on a map and 80 % cannot find iraq on the same map 55% do not know who the vice president is .

but we at ats can figure out the fiat money system what if

the price of everything goes up overnight [hyperinflation]
$ 10 for gas
massive job losses
massive homeless

but the rich would still be rich

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


So all the wars are about dollars and this is why we're on the verge of WW3.





People literally die for Dollars.

I know it sounds stupid but i cant help being naive and thinking if things are really that bad and if everyone seems to owe everyone else money and often money that doesnt even exist anyway why not just hit the reset button?
Money and economys are all set by people,if there can be booms when people are wealthy and things are good theres no reason we cant just stay there its just the stupidly rich 1% screwing the other 99%

Like when you declare bankrupcy,lets all wipe the slate and learn not to borrow from other countries or ban it all together and manufacture in house and all be happy

reply to post by EA006


Nawww... Just the opposite, really. What do TPTB need with money? They can print it by the pallet and they do, whenever needed. Money isn't what is and will be driving wars. Nor will religion, depsite it being a major factor in the past...

No, I think the wars we're seeing now and what will become far worse to come are over resources and the finite supply. Money can't buy what people won't sell...or won't sell at a price which makes it viable. Wars simply take it. As always...but with far more urgency and purpose now than ever before.

In that? I think this is all just the beginning ...but money is so totally into fantasy worlds of "assigned" value, I don't think it's worth much fighting anymore. Just what it USED to buy...and won't buy much of any longer. Life giving resources.

EA006
reply to post by InhaleExhale

 

I was speculating a bit. It is a what if thread.
I was seeing America being sent down the pan for a while, kinda part of the plan but i was thinking there would be a way back to the top. Like a restart. No debt would mean a stronger America. That's also why i mentioned the New American century paper.

Yes,

that is why I asked if you could speculate further as this is a "what if" thread about why would wealthy individuals pay a nations debt?

reply to post by St Udio


a follow up on China unloading Billions & more of US Debt

Here is a recent article about Chinese buying up Assets, in this case just NYC... there are other properties like future industrial parks in the Mountain States and north of NYC a planned city will be constructed, most likely to house expatriot Chinese living in the USA...
then there are canals/ waterway gates of commerce the Chinese are attempting to snare...

...China owns 60 % of South Manhattan New York.

China invests $1 billion in New York City

By Emily Lodish, Global Post

Chinese companies and entrepreneurs have quietly invested $1 billion in New York City over the last year.

In the process, they have snagged parts of major city icons, like the Empire State Building and the Tappan Zee bridge.(...)

Read more at investmentwatchblog.com...

...China owns 60 % of South Manhattan New York.

China invests $1 billion in New York City

By Emily Lodish, Global Post

Chinese companies and entrepreneurs have quietly invested $1 billion in New York City over the last year.

In the process, they have snagged parts of major city icons, like the Empire State Building and the Tappan Zee bridge.(...)

Read more at investmentwatchblog.com...

InhaleExhale
reply to post by EA006

 

If the elite have TRILLIONS of $$$ hidden away on offshore accounts what would happen if it all made it back to the U.S suddenly?

As this a "what if" thread can I ask why would the elite pay the national debt?

So if the $17tr was payed off it would also damage America?

If they are greedy power hungry like many perceive them to be why would they generously give up their trillions to pay a national debt?


I would think the tax write-off would be huge, and last for years, so 'they' would get their money back eventually, and use it once more to pay of the next national debt.
I bet that is what they do anyway, if a dumbass like me can think of that, 'they' thought of it years ago, perhaps 'they' are still negotiating?

reply to post by InhaleExhale


It is a "what if thread".

I will never envision the rich paying off the national debt.

I can see this happening:

The people with trillions in assets offshore see the collapse coming 8-10 months out. They use those assets to purchase property and infrastructure in the states and get contracts for future business (employing hundreds if not thousands of Americans). They create jobs in several areas at once across several voting districts.

They have gained a semi-safe investment for their money (which was doomed due to impending collapse)
They have gained a source of income through the rebuilding process after the collapse
They have established rapport with the working class as a benefactor rather than the "evil rich"
Gained a potential voting block in future elections

Nothing is done for the betterment of mankind by the insanely wealthy. Especially not when their money is at stake.