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Is caseless shotgun ammunition possible

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posted on Jan, 28 2014 @ 11:09 AM
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GrislyAddams
But it's not caseless at all. In fact, it has one of the most complicated cases ever devised.


See also: the post I was replying to.

Or you could consider it as a bullet, no case whatever. Nor separate charge, nor separate primer.




posted on Jan, 28 2014 @ 11:17 AM
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reply to post by Conspiracyskeptic
 


Possible yes
going back to the 1980's and the HK G11
Last year at a gun show I saw an old Gyrojet pistol there a 12mm??? I think?


if I had to make a guess why they never really took off? I would say that when it comes to defending myself and family. I'm going to stick with something proven like my Colt combat commander or better still a Rock Arms LAR-8



posted on Jan, 29 2014 @ 07:09 PM
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Caseless is very likely a dead end, for a full auto weapon anyway.
AAI, advanced armaments industries, proto typed a caseless rifle on the mid eighties. They actually won the initial procurement competition for a new battle rifle for the marine corp. The design used a hardened steel flechete molded into the propellant. They had good initial success, but there were issues with the propellant cooking off under high rates of fire, and since the mechanism is designed for caseless the was no ejection mechanism, so if a round misfired there was no easy way to clear the chamber. Priming the round was also a problem, as it has to be electronic, no cartridge no place for a chemical primer.
It started as a good idea, the case is 30% of the weight of a round, so caseless gave the opportunity to carry 30%more rounds on the average loadout.
As far a a shot gun goes , it conceivably could be done, the same issues i laid out above would apply. Also there would have to be a way to form the shot cup into the propellant in such a fashion that it would not compramise the integrity of the round.



posted on Jan, 30 2014 @ 10:52 AM
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reply to post by Conspiracyskeptic
 


I think everyone here has forgotten the Daisy VL.



posted on Jan, 30 2014 @ 06:23 PM
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Lol Later yes they have... as well as the Mini ball...

as well as the true implications behind these two things in combination....

Throw in the sabot and another thing or two and not only is it practical but you could most likely build something very high performance the size of a keltec ksg and only a little heavier that'd put out 20 or so ultra high performance 12 gauge + caseless rounds between reloads.



posted on Feb, 21 2015 @ 04:27 PM
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I used to design small arms and one project I helped with is the design of a caseless shotgun cartridge. It was essentially a one piece plastic shell that had the shot in the front and a solid piece of celluloid (high nitrocellulose plastic) that snapped into the back with a percussion primer just below the center. It was designed to use conventional shotgun barrels. When fired pressure from the gases pushed forward on the cartridge which couldn't move forward because it impinged upon ring just forward of the chamber. This caused the pressure to push the back of the cartridge through the center and inside out as it went down the barrel and out the muzzle. Thermodynamics would be improved because burning propellent was taken out the breech and moved down the barrel giving more equilibrium to the expanding gases. Windage was eliminated because the high pressure gas expanded the plastic of the casing forming a tight gas seal as well as wiping out debry from the barrel as it moved. This design also eliminated the need for wadding because the structure of the casing served this function. Any firearms using this would look just like any other out there except for the ammo they used. Provision for extraction and ejection were made in the design and would be no different than any other shotgun. a reply to: Conspiracyskeptic



posted on Feb, 24 2015 @ 07:45 PM
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a reply to: Bedlam
Also the Russian underbarrel grenade launchers and the new Russian "Balkan" AGL work similarly but they burn out before leaving the barrel. And work better, is cheaper, actually reliable, and in general shows how inadequate our 40mm launchers are. Also the g11 was insanely expensive complex and if even a tiny chunk of propellant broke off anywhere in the gun... Yeah enjoy your hike to the nearest armorer!



posted on Feb, 24 2015 @ 08:26 PM
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That was what I was thinking as well. I have a 28ga black powder muzzle loader from the mid 1800's my paw gave me. Its has very few markings left on the barrel or guard. But it still has the CSA stamp under the barrel.

Any who black powder ball and cap or flint lock is the only caseless street howitzer I can think of.



posted on Feb, 24 2015 @ 08:52 PM
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It might be possible but not practical. When I was younger I had a .22 rifle that used caseless ammo..not black powder, this was a bullet with a compressed powder charge glue or bonded to the bullet. It was a fun little gun but the ammo is rare and you would think prone to moisture problems.
en.wikipedia.org...
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