Pinal County Sheriff Deputy kills Manuel Longoria while Longoria's hands are raised in the air.

reply to post by vkey08


And the others? And there are LOTS

And that was only 5 min on Google

I just showed how wrong you are

But like MANY people on this site

When confronted with facts out come the excuses

Its ok to be wrong

Unless your fantasy world won't allow it

Another_Nut
reply to post by vkey08

 

And the others? And there are LOTS

And that was only 5 min on Google

I just showed how wrong you are

But like MANY people on this site

When confronted with facts out come the excuses

Its ok to be wrong

Unless your fantasy world won't allow it

edit on pm120143106America/ChicagoThu, 30 Jan 2014 18:28:31 -0600_1u by Another_Nut because: (no reason given)

Like I said before I can find just as many examples of civilians that got light sentences, but instead of focusing on the few here or there, and I admit there are some, I focus on what I can do, and don't' sit and complain on a message board that cops are all evil..but I guess when you don't wanna look at the 90% that aren't corrupt idiots because it destroy's your fantasy of cops gone wild, see it goes both ways..

I take PROACTIVE action against this sort of injustice when I see it and can do something, what do you do about it other than post stats here and belittle anyone that doesn't agree? Hmmmmmmm? Speak up?????????? You opened that door..

And it wasn't an excuse in the Doctors case, the guy really did Dare the jury to give him a lot of time, said they "couldn't" It was quite amusing when it was shown on the news here...

reply to post by vkey08


Then don't post your bs and say cops have it just as bad

Please post 3 examples of someone getting off as easy as you let that cop off

Another_Nut
reply to post by vkey08

 

more bs

Only if its applied to your post here... What will it take for you to understand that you have no idea what you are talking about?

Another_Nut
here

articles.courant.com...

305k bail vs 1.95 mil

17 years vs 44

care to appologize and admitt you are wrong yet?

or here 500 years
www.denverpost.com...

or here 270 years
www.wjbdradio.com...

i await your excuse

edit on pm120143105America/ChicagoThu, 30 Jan 2014 17:38:39 -0600_1u by Another_Nut because: (no reason given)

You really need to read articles and actually compare apples to apples and not apples to the moon of Phobos.

For starters, and I don't know how many more ways I can explain this, you must compare incidents in the same state. The state laws / sentencing guidelines in California are not the same as they are in Connecticut are not the same as Colorado are not the same as Illinois.

Secondly, had you bothered to read the article with Dr. Westbrook, you would have noticed his initial bond was $450,000 and was increased to 1.95 million when additional victims came forward and filed complaints.

Doctor Tory Westbrook is charged with multiple counts of sexual assault against patients. He was arraigned in Middletown Superior Court where the judge set his bond at $450,000.

Why was his bail increased? From your own source -

Judge David P. Gold increased Westbrook's bail for the five cases to $1.95 million. Charges are still pending against Westbrook in 14 more criminal cases, which include allegations of sexual assault, sale of narcotics and Medicaid fraud.

I get that you desperately want to try and make your failed point about law enforcement sentencing / charging, but you keep failing at it. You fail to read the articles, you fail to understand each state has their own legal system, laws and guidelines and most importantly you fail to understand law enforcement and civilians are charged using the same criminal codes in the respective states / territories.

Yours / Gogo's posts about the Grant incident (unequal treatment of LEO's / Civilians). Had you bothered to research you would have noticed the officer was charged with 1st degree murder. It was challenged in court by the defense because the state failed to meet the burden to sustain the charge. Instead the jury got the option of Murder 2, Voluntary Manslaughter or involuntary manslaughter.

He was found guilty by a jury of involuntary manslaughter, which the state set 3 years in prison as the base line. The statute allows a judge to factor in mitigating / aggravating circumstance, which can either reduce the sentence to a base of 2 years or increase the sentence to 4 years. He was given 2 years of prison, and was given credit for the time he spent in custody during the proceedings x2, which applies to all and not law enforcement. Why the mitigating circumstance.

The video shot by bystanders, which were used against the officer in the trial, dismantled the prosecutions argument of 1st murder. It also showed the officer did not intend to use his duty weapon, but Taser. In court his lawyer never attempted to argue that the officer was not guilty. The Officer, through his lawyer, conceded that he shot Mr. Grant. People, regardless if they are cops or civilians, who show remorse for their actions and own those actions in court, can be considered by the judge when it comes to considering punishment.

GOGO's post -
The second talked about was, in your argument, sexual assault by the officers in Milwaukee. The problem you face there is you, again, cant use your own view and ignore the law. The officers were charged with violating state law on illegal body cavity searches. Their actions, under their state law, does not meet the elements of a sexual assault.

Your Colorado sexual assault link -Sexual assault on a minor does not have the same status as sexual assault on an adult. The sentencing guidelines / elements of the crime are a lot more stiff for sexual assault of minors because the court views them as vulnerable. Sexual assault on a child is not the same as sexual assault by a doctor on adult patients, is not the same as illegal body cavity search by law enforcement.

Your last attempt - The 270 years in prison. Had you, once again read the article and applied common sense, you would have noted that he is already serving -

Man Convicted of Sexual Assault Gets Life Sentence


MCLEANSBORO , Ill. (AP) - A southern Illinois man already sentenced to 270 years for a series of sexual assaults in Saline County [I]has been sentenced to natural life in prison for similar charges in Hamilton County.[/I]

The (Carbondale) Southern Illinoisan reports that former Eldorado resident Brian K. Bowlby was sentenced on Thursday. His sentence comes weeks after a Hamilton County jury found him guilty of predatory sexual assault and criminal sexual abuse.

In the latest conviction, the 38-year-old Bowlby's victim was under the age of 17. In the Saline County case, he was convicted of 18 counts of predatory criminal sexual assault and one count of aggravated criminal sexual abuse of a child under the age of 13.

Also you should take note the victims were... wait for it.... children under the age of 13. why is it important? Because it allows the courts to apply the aggravated assault modifier / predatory sexual assault.

Randomly grasping at straws is not an argument. If you are not going to exercise due diligence and actually read the articles and then compare the situations to the same situation in the same state, why bother posting? All it does is undermines your argument. You come across as so hateful towards any and all law enforcement that you are willing to lie / mislead people reading these posts by posting blatantly false / or omitting information that doesn't support your argument.

All crimes occurring in different states with their own laws, elements of crimes and sentencing guidelines.

As for who should apologize? I think it would be appropriate for you to apologize for the willful attempt to mislead people by linking to articles that don't support your argument while arguing they do. Vkey08's posts are correct and are not excuses.

Where as your actions / comments / insinuations are not only out of line, unsupported and intentional, but wreaks of a person being so desperate to attack / bash law enforcement that you will try almost anything to sell that snake oil.. Even if it means making false claims, attempting to compare situations as if they are the same when in reality the occur in different states, using different state laws, different sentencing guideline and different victim age.

Good luck hunting your Whale Ahab....

reply to post by Xcathdra


Now they have to be in the same state

Same judge

Same prosecutor

Same same same

Blah blah blah

The you can provide me with 3 examples from the same state of normal citizens getting off with 17 years after 17 assaults

Or you are lying

Examples please your nonsense talk doesn't cut it

Another_Nut
Now they have to be in the same state

They have always had to be compared in the same state, because as I have pointed out time and again, and you ignored time and again, laws vary from state to state. I'm not sure why you cannot understand that - Its basic government 101.

Another_Nut
Same judge

States have many judges, not just one.

Another_Nut
Same prosecutor

States have many prosecutors, not just one.

Another_Nut
Same same same

Blah blah blah

I will assume this part of your post is because you cant refute the facts and are unwilling to admit you are wrong and made a mistake by trying to compare incidents that aren't comparable.

Another issue to note that I missed the first time around. Your Colorado story with the 500 years. againm, had you bothered to read it -

Cendejas fully confessed to assaulting the youngest sister for two years, confessed only to fondling the second victim and denied assault of the eldest sister, according to the release.

and.....

Cendejas faces eight to 540 years in prison, according to the release. Sentencing is scheduled for October.

Another_Nut
The you can provide me with 3 examples from the same state of normal citizens getting off with 17 years after 17 assaults

Sure, ruight after you show me 3 examples from the same state of normal citizens getting harsher sentencing because they are civilians and not law enforcement.

Another_Nut
Or you are lying

really? grow up.

Another_Nut
Examples please your nonsense talk doesn't cut it

and refusing to read and understand your own sources while claiming they are something they are not doesn't cut it either. Ironic how, after being proven wrong on all of your points, still refuse to acknowledge it.

as I stated before, go hunt your whale Ahab.

reply to post by Xcathdra


No examples means you lose

Good day to you both

HARTFORD -—
A federal judge Thursday sentenced former East Haven police officer Dennis Spaulding to five years in prison for his role in what the government has said was the department's systemic harassment of Latino motorists and business owners.

Now that is about par, the guidelines say 33 months as a minimum.

However same trial, different cop, but with documents Mental issues

David Cari received 30 months in prison, below the guideline sentence. In the Spaulding case, the guideline was 57-71 months.

Now the reason for the discrepancy wasn't because the guy was a police officer (there are also two other defendants awaiting sentencing and they are expected to get 5 years each) it was because he needs mental health help, and the judge didn't think prison was the best thing with someone in deep depression and with PTSD..

But... they were found guilty on the worst thing you can be found guilty of in Federal Court outside of mass murder... Conspiracy to Deprive Civil Rights..

Another_Nut
reply to post by Xcathdra

 

No examples means you lose

Good day to you both

..................................... lol

reply to post by vkey08


Really because this man faces life

abclocal.go.com.../local/los_angeles&id=9412536

One for me

None for you

Eta and here

500k for 3 assaults vs 350k for 17

abclocal.go.com...

Seeing a pattern yet?

reply to post by Another_Nut


Page not found? that's a cool name for someone Your link does not work.. and It's California, I also showed two cases from CT, where both were sentenced according to what they should have been for the crime.

reply to post by vkey08

last time i checked SAN BERNARDINO was in ca not ct

remember is has to be same state?

no cheating

abclocal.go.com...

if it still wont work just google:california man sentenced for sexual assault

he is number one the ice skating coach

you can find all my sources here

seeing a pattern?

whats your excuses now?

or will ypou move the goal posts again?

Another_Nut
reply to post by vkey08

 

last time i checked SAN BERNARDINO was in ca not ct

remember is has to be same state?

no cheating

abclocal.go.com...

if it still wont work just google:california man sentenced for sexual assault

he is number one the ice skating coach

you can find all my sources here

seeing a pattern?

whats your excuses now?

or will ypou move the goal posts again?

Yes children in California... (California's sentencing guidelines for sexual crimes involving minors are astronomically high) key difference in the two cases, CHILDREN...... Honestly I've said it earlier in this thread, when kids are involved, I favor the death penalty for anyone.. adults, not so much

That may have to do with the fact I was raped at age 13 by some out of towner in Los Angeles to become a movie star. But don't quote me on that, he's STILL in jail and I'm a LOT older now.. he will never get out... good riddance... wish he had the needle.. thanks for making me relive that.. wonderful memories..

reply to post by vkey08


And moving goal post then

And the vc man?

500k for 3 vs 350k for seventeen?

See how you just make excuses?

My last post

Unless can provide examples of a man getting such little time.

But you can't

Because cops get off easier

I've proven it

And your fantasy that you are doing anything but letting an officers off easy can continue

reply to post by Another_Nut


You failed to read your sources once again -

Ice skating coach convicted of sexual abuse of underage students

LOS ANGELES -- An ice-skating coach was convicted Tuesday of 10 felony counts of sexual abuse against two students, the L.A. County District Attorney's Office said.

Details

Donald James Vincent, 30, was convicted of one count of continuous sexual abuse, two counts of lewd act upon a child, two counts of forcible lewd act upon a child, three counts of oral copulation/sexual penetration with a child under 10 and two counts of sex/sodomy with a child under 10, the D.A.'s Office said.

What did you neglect to mention?

Vincent was scheduled to be sentenced on February 21. Prosecutors said he faces multiple life sentences in state prison. The jury reportedly deliberated for less than a day.

I was not aware we were at the end of February.
He was convicted.. His next court appearance is where he will find out what his sentence is.

As I stated before, teachers who mess with students face tough sanctions due to a legal term called In Loco Parentis

A Latin term meaning "in [the] place of a parent" or "instead of a parent". Refers to the legal responsibility of some person or organization to perform some of the functions or responsibilities of a parent.

Meaning a teacher can be held to a higher standard / harsher sentence because of In Loco Parentis. Teachers can hold more sway over a child than what a stranger could. A level of trust / proper behavior by teachers towards students is taken into account when determining sentencing for actions that violated that trust.

As I stated before, research and learn before simply trying to throw out an article that does not support your claim.

As for the VC man -
Are you referring to this guy -
Simi Valley sexual assault suspect targeted victims on Facebook

SIMI VALLEY, Calif. (KABC) -- An 18-year-old suspected of sexually assaulting three Simi Valley females allegedly targeted his victims through Facebook. Christopher Ng was arraigned in Ventura County Superior Court Wednesday on charges he sexually assaulted three females ranging in age from 13 to 41 years old.

His bond was raised to $500,000 dollars from $100,000 dollars. He was arrested on Jaunary 21stand bond set at $100,000. On January 22nd at his arraignment hearing, his bond amount was increased to $500,000.

You need to research how bonds are set for crimes and what occurs once a person is arrested but prior to their arraignment hearing. The arraignment is where the suspect / court hears what the charges are and it is where the Prosecution makes the argument in terms of bail / no bail / movement restrictions / remand / other options. The Defense makes their argument to get the bond reduced / removed / ROR / etc.

When you deal with State Law as opposed to local / municipal ordinance, an established initial bond amount can be used prior to arraignment. It allows a person who is arrested to be able to bond out rather than being held in jail until their initial court appearance, which in larger areas could mean days.

From the moment of arrest records are kept in terms of how many days / hours the suspect is in custody. At the end of the situation, the number of days / hours he was in custody can be applied to the sentence (That is what happened in the Grant case).

So again, comparing apples to Zebras.

Is the Court system biased against teachers by holding their profession to higher standards / harsher penalties when it comes to actions against the minors in there care? Even more so when that teacher assume some parental standards when that child is at school?

The judicial system holds Law Enforcement to higher standards / harsher penalties when they violate a law. Why? Because unlike civilians, Law Enforcement receives specialized training in the area of laws and enforcement. Law Enforcement can be held accountable for violating a persons civil rights where as civilians cannot (some exceptions are present / IE certified hate crimes - most states have done away with those modifiers).

As for your comment on moving goal posts you seem to be doing that yourself, however your not getting it right. You seem to be confusing bond with punishment / sentencing.

In addition you need to research how bond is set / determined and what factors are taken into account at a prelim hearing. If you get really bored feel free to browse through California State Law. Just like in my state, you will have a law listed, it will define what elements need to be violated to violate the specific law, and then you will apply an NCIC Modifier code, which takes into account things like: age of victim / sex of victim / weapons use / type of weapons / position of trust (IE Teacher / Police Officer).

Just because a person is arrested and charged with a crime does not mean that charge is permanent. During the course of the investigation, as new evidence is located, the suspect could very well be released with charges dropped as a new suspect is located or the person can have more charges added / modified based on newly discovered info.

One of the very first things a defense attorney does is to file a motion of discovery with the prosecution. The Prosecution is then required to turn over all case documents to the defense. Failing to turn over any information that could be used in defense is called a Brady violation (a civil rights violation - Due Process).

So, again, this topic is complicated and deals with a lot more than you are aware or even understand.

So no.. once again you are wrong.

reply to post by Xcathdra


The grab incident was one of MANY cases.
Explain the Wisconsin trooper who despite raping and sexually assault dozens for over 5 years (while the whole dept knew) was only given 2 years and not put on the sex offenders list because they charged him minimally?

Or Kelly Thomas's being beat to death while he screamed for his daddy. He wasnt recognizable as a human after that. Those cops got off Scott free.

Or the fact that grants killer is already out of jail after less than 2 years.

Or the d.c. police murdering that mother after she accidentally passed an unguarded checkpoint and was hunted down after trying to leave.

Or the officer that shot the burned victim. He was burned head to toe and in shock. The officer shot him because he was afraid the man would touch him with his burned flesh.

Or thw officers that killed the two car crash victims seeking help?

The officers who saw a kid in a field, walking by himself with an airsoft rifle and shot him dead.

The officer that killed the deaf woods who had a carving knife.

I could literally list forever.

If any went to jail (2 in that list) they sont around a quarter or less of a civilians sentence and didnt lose half as much.

I cant believe you guys cant admit that officers get lighter sentences.

I mean take a look around. Its not even debatable really.

Everyone knows.

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


Anyone part of the good ol' boy system gets off lightly. Everyone knows that.

But there are those who go against the good ol' boy system that gets F'd over. That cop last year, the one who went on a killing spree, he got burned to death in his cabin. At that time, he was truly no threat to anyone but himself.

We all can give stories and situations all day long. It won't fix the true underlying problem.

reply to post by ChuckNasty


Good on you for at least admitting that cops get off lighter

@ the two apologists

If children are different the please go to my link

Scroll down to

Socal cop get 3 years for sexually assaulting 14 year olD

See how your just wrong yet?

First it's huge sentence because its a child

Until that child is assaulted by an officer

Then its business as usual

Cop 3 years vs coach life

Both children

Time to move those goal posts again

Another_Nut
reply to post by vkey08

 

And moving goal post then

And the vc man?

500k for 3 vs 350k for seventeen?

See how you just make excuses?

My last post

Unless can provide examples of a man getting such little time.

But you can't

Because cops get off easier

I've proven it

And your fantasy that you are doing anything but letting an officers off easy can continue

And you just proved you are heartless and cold..

Your cases aren't the same type of thing, (Xca said it better since I've now been up all night) Teachers in California face such harsh penalties because the law says they do, there was a Prop a few years back that allowed for it, California ALSO now has a law for anyone (harsher for teachers, police, social workers) that does anything to a child 13 (THIRTEEN) or under.

The case you cited was a 14 year old, and while I still can't fathom that, the laws out there seem to have a difference between 13 and 14, and don't ask me to explain that it's California, had it happened in any of the NE states, the sentences would have been ten times that, hell a social worker got 15 just for having pictures of underage kids, and Social Workers are part of the "good ole boy system"

We could go on and on, it's evident that you don't care about the differences between state and Federal laws, and how cops are most times charged two or three times in conjunction with an incident (The state charges are only the beginning), you certainly don't care about your fellow ATS'ers that you have dragged through the mud, and I would venture you don't care much about life.