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1) No these people wanted to rule themselves and publicly practice their religion (ie the state).
2) Yes that is exactly what was posted earlier in the thread about people being free to practice whatever religion they wanted but that science should be what is taught officially.
3) Exactly my point! There are people in here claiming religion is the source of all evil or that it should be oppressed. I am pointing out, as history shows, that the same horrors are going to happen regardless.
1) I never said that they were any better than the young turks, they exiled almost one million muslims fighting in the area. The region would later be involved in another murderous campaign against muslims.
2) Basically the official stance of the turks was to keep your religion to yourself while the state publicly supported science.
Is your issue that the state of people keeping their religion private and out of public never occurred. This should be an extremely telling point as I highlighted earlier by comparing it to the plight of the homosexual community. Bot being allowed to publicly express your beliefs (or way of life) is extremely damaging to the psyche and every society that has attempted such was usually very dysfunctional.
3) Are you considering the US a secular government? Look towards unjustified wars in Panama, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc and all the deaths there.
Does a secular government exist that fits your criteria, or is it yet to have manifested?
And again- freedom of religion and expression has nothing to do with religion in schools
No, teaching morality is fine, great even but since when does one need a religious text to develop a strong moral compass?
The answer, of course, is never.
Besides if students need to rely on state employees to aid in the development of said morals then that should be immediately indicative that something is fundamentally broken in our society.
Are you saying liberal ideals are a religion because you seem to be.
I am just trying to understand your thinking here because I see those things as being very different.
Anyway do you realy think a set of ideals be it left, right, up, or down is the same thing as religion A,B, or C?
reply to post by benrl
It may be the parents' job to do it, but when does the parent get to choose what school the child gets to go to as part of their job?
Oh, no, they don't get to do that unless they have a lot of extra money on top of their taxes, and God help them if they think part of the schooling should include topics other than the typical atheist agenda. See, in America, you send your child to the school in the district you live in, and no matter what, it can't include any topics that are other than atheist and politically correct.
So, if you should want to try to find a school that teaches religion, you are SOL unless you happen to be relatively wealthy.
Now, explain to me how that is fair to anyone other than atheists?
reply to post by FriedBabelBroccoli
I don't think anyone has claimed they want state atheism as the core of our government, that is just as bad if not worse as having a theocrocy.
The governemnt should be neutral on the subject of religion or God, they should not be forcing an opinion or belief on its people. Secularism is the way to go because it allows freedom of religion. Look at history to see what theocrocies have done to its people. Rome ordered the genocide of thousands of pagans for not converting to their newly established state religion of Christianity, it would be no different with state atheism I believe.edit on 1/31/2014 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)
The young turks were not state atheists.
They began with the practice of exactly what you are describing.
Things then progressed very quickly after it proved to not work so well.
But w/e just pretend your utopian fantasy of a secular society where all people get along is going to become a reality once all the hate filled genocidal religious people start keeping their religion private.
Logic is a branch of philosophy. And sure, teach that first. But again, how the taxpayers want to waste their money needs to be up to them, and they should be allowed to use their education dollars how they wish so long as its not causing harm.
reply to post by fractal2
Free speech has nothing to do with it.
And "philosophy" is not appropriate subject matter for kids. They need to be taught logic (mathematics and science) first in order to process the information.
and no, jesus is not science
You walk into a school and see on the wall
Categorical and Hypothetical Imperatives: More precisely, it commands us to exercise our wills in a particular way, not to perform some action or other.
Or you see
Thou shall not kill....
Please explain to me the difference other than a elementary student might have a harder time understanding the first one?edit on 1-2-2014 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)