Homeland Security Secretary: Illegals Have ‘Earned Right to be Citizens

reply to post by Indigo5


They send more billions oversea to their extended families back home, remember the pro immigration reform crocks will sell a nice view of why we need to inundate the welfare system with illegals as citizens.

reply to post by jrod

2 different topics.
Those that came here illegally need to be deported.
This idea that they pay taxes is the biggest load of crap ever pitched.
They pay sales tax, but if they pay into SS and the like, it is one a stolen ID.

Very simple. They broke the law coming here. They need to be returned to their home country.

reply to post by Indigo5


I agree with what you presented my friend, but not this part...

The Gov. collects those payroll withholding on faked SS numbers (SS, Medicare etc), but doesn't ever have to pay out on it to the illegal immigrant. That money collected pays for American Citizens safety

It does NOT go to our safety, it goes into some secret account that some connected jerks in D.C can rape and spend like drunken sailors while at the same time not worrying about any accountability or oversight whatsoever. This is one of the biggest kept hush secrets out there, though nobody talks about it. We are talking billions of dollars un-accounted for.

It's probably the main reason why amnesty has not been granted as of yet. No worries though, I am sure billions in tax revenue, and millions and millions of more votes for the Democrats, will soon take priority over their little scheme.

Our safety? LMAO!!! ~$heopleNation

beezzer
reply to post by marg6043

 

This is what the government wants.

and what the goverment wants the goverment gets at any cost

I live in America and the Government has never wanted to admit that illegal immigration was a blight on public services, hospitals, etc. Now with Obama Care, they want them to be just like regular old folks. Regular folks who have to abide by the law, including Obama Care. When you grant they 11 million ( and where that low of a number came from i don't know) legal status, at that very moment the "illegal Immigration Problem vanishes in one felt swoop of the pen, and 11 million new citizens get to purchase some insurance. Or take the penalty, still it's tons of money for Government & Insurance Co. coffers. Not to mention the other aspects of society that illegal immigration has impacted. Crime, births, jobs, drugs, courts, social services. It's a damn insult.

How inspiring to find that a village of frightened, superstitious peasants have internet connectivity.

I have heard the term "ATS is supposed to be above this level of discourse" so often lately it makes me wonder if we should institute some sort of membership qualifications.

Intelligence, compassion, openness and bravery would be the primary qualities I would search for.

Deny Ignorance indeed.

Leonidas
How inspiring to find that a village of frightened, superstitious peasants have internet connectivity.

I have heard the term "ATS is supposed to be above this level of discourse" so often lately it makes me wonder if we should institute some sort of membership qualifications.

Intelligence, compassion, openness and bravery would be the primary qualities I would search for.

Deny Ignorance indeed.

look up the word illegal sometime soon from your high vantage point

frank

reply to post by 999zxcv


Exhibit "A"

So Leonidas claims some high ground with this:

Leonidas
I have heard the term "ATS is supposed to be above this level of discourse" so often lately it makes me wonder if we should institute some sort of membership qualifications.

But before Leonidas utter the above, the poster pointed out that those who obviously do not fit into their world view must be --

...frightened, superstitious peasants [that] have internet connectivity.

Deny Ignorance indeed.

Indeed....indeed.

Exhibit "A1"

The troubled history of immigration into North America is full of fear and hate followed slowly with familiarity, comprehension and often acceptance finally.

The Irish, Italian, Chinese, Japanese, Vietnamese, et.al. were hated, distrusted and persecuted. Now some of the offspring of those same immigrants are the ones spewing the same hate and fear directed at their very own Grand-parents and Great-Grand-parents towards another, different group of newcomers.

"But this is different!!" No, no it isn't. Laws and customs regulating the in migration of people to the Americas continue to change and evolve. Were slaves "legal" immigrants? Slavery was. The Constitution referred tos them as 3/5's of a human-being, how many of you are proud of that?

As with all migration of an economic nature the people are filling jobs the overwhelming majority of current residents wont or dont want to do. Historically, it is the most recently 'accepted' immigrants that treated the new group the worst. (The joke about the new immigrant on Ellis Island that reaches the front of the line and gets accepted and immediately turns around and screams to the others waiting in line behind him: "Now all you immigrants F**K OFF back where you came from!" ...comes to mind)

This round sees a large group of racist, fearful and unintelligent opposition coming from many quarters looking in every direction to find people, processes and any other factor to blame for their unhappy situation. Demonizing all identifiable "other". The "rich", poor, mexicans. Anyone.

America has had to repeatedly deal with the shame of having to apologize for the treatment of immigrants. Apologizing for Japanese interment, African Slavery, Italian persecution and Irish segregation.

Will you, or your children have to apologize for your despicable behavior to an entire class of people, or will you correct your own behavior before it comes to that?

Fear comes from ignorance. DENY IGNORANCE.

As with all migration of an economic nature the people are filling jobs the overwhelming majority of current residents wont or dont want to do.

Are you serious? You honestly believe that millions of illegals are all working jobs that Americans won't? Really? These people are not just working in the fields, they are in factories, doing construction and roofing, working in restaurants and in many other fields of the workforce. Deny ignorance indeed!

I have seen with my own eyes perfectly suitable Americans turned away while illegals were hired instead. The illegal women I worked with had husbands who worked under the table and claimed a one income household. Together they made above the poverty limit and were recieving cheap housing, food stamps etc through deciet.

reply to post by Night Star


Anecdotal evidence may be compelling for you, but it does not stand up to the economic reality of workers migrating to where the jobs are, regardless of international borders. A phenomenon as old as man.

The issue is a racist, xenophobic one based on age-old fears that ignore facts and is based on little-to-no real world evidence.

If people who are calling for action on this issue were willing to be honest, it would be extremely easy to prove to them their objections are emotion and not fact based.

But unfortunately honesty is in short supply while internet "pitchforks and torches" are everywhere. (ie: threads like this one.)

reply to post by Leonidas

Will you, or your children have to apologize for your despicable behavior to an entire class of people, or will you correct your own behavior before it comes to that?

Our despicable behavior for wanting our laws enforced? Correct our behavior? How about the behavior of all the illegals who were pedophiles and attacked our children, or the illegals who killed or maimed our citizens throughout the years? Thousands of preventable deaths. Many of these illegals have had previous arrests and deportations. How about you ask the family members who have lost loved ones who is despicable who needs to change their behavior?

Had our laws been enforced, one man wouldn't have lost both his wife and little girl in one fell swoop. One teenager wouldn't have lost both her legs above the knee. A young man wouldn't have been run over and dragged a while beneath a vehical and left to die. Oh these are only a few true stories. Go ahead, ask their family members how they feel about illegal immigration. Ask the people who desperately needed a job so they and their family could survive, but got turned away while an illegal got the job instead. Ask them how that feels.

reply to post by Leonidas

The issue is a racist, xenophobic one based on age-old fears that ignore facts and is based on little-to-no real world evidence.

This has nothing to do with being racist. Illegal is not a race! Ignore facts???? I have seen enough with my own eyes. I have spoken to many illegals over the years and heard how they get things through their deciet. They come right out and tell you everything. I have worked by their side, shared in their celebrations... they always knew I was against what they were doing. I tried to get them to become legal and they didn't want to hear it. When I asked why they would lie to get benefits when there are so many poor people who really need them, they didn't care. They say America is stupid and that I could do the same thing. Good grief Charlie Brown. I wasn't raised that way. Many of the have returned well off to their countries now.

As for all the illegal pedophiles, gang members, murders and thieves, are you seriously going to tell me that they don't exist, that these are not facts???? I don't know what kind of fantasy world you live in, but personally, I do not feel any illegal has earned a right to become legal just because they broke the law and live here.

reply to post by Night Star



You are being disingenuous when you say it is a matter of law and not race or xenophobia and if you were willing to be totally honest and with an open mind I can show you why.

On a separate note, citing the crimes of an illegal immigrant does not add anything to the debate. I am sure you are willing to accept that horrific crimes are perpetrated by illegals, residents, and citizens alike. While anecdotal story you cite is no doubt tragic and incites anger, it ignores the fact that violent crime exists across all socioeconomic groups. Period.

A family killed by a fifth generation citizen is no less dead than a family killed by a recent immigrant or vacationing non-citizen.

Citing such things is emotion based and not intellectually honest. I am sure you know that in your heart-of-hearts.

openyourmind1262
I live in America and the Government has never wanted to admit that illegal immigration was a blight on public services, hospitals, etc. Now with Obama Care, they want them to be just like regular old folks. Regular folks who have to abide by the law, including Obama Care. When you grant they 11 million ( and where that low of a number came from i don't know) legal status, at that very moment the "illegal Immigration Problem vanishes in one felt swoop of the pen, and 11 million new citizens get to purchase some insurance. Or take the penalty, still it's tons of money for Government & Insurance Co. coffers. Not to mention the other aspects of society that illegal immigration has impacted. Crime, births, jobs, drugs, courts, social services. It's a damn insult.

edit on 27-1-2014 by openyourmind1262 because: (no reason given)

Immigration law in America has been amended no less than two dozen times. Since the time of the Revolutionary War and Independence from the British the law has changed to better suit the realities of the time.

Isolating the negative effects of immigration and only considering those factors would make anyone angry. But it is not accurate. Whenever America was faced with a kind of immigration that was not contemplated under the prevailing law, it was amended. Over and over again and by different ruling parties of every political stripe.

The problems of Obamacare are legion and not restricted to how to treat other human beings with respect, regardless of their legal status. Obamacare is a mess on all levels. Obama is a poor president, not the antichrist. Obamacare is also not an immigration argument.

Focusing solely on the negative and ignoring the greater truths may be easy to understand and argue, but it is not helpful nor accurate.

Trying to hide hate and fear and racism and xenophobia behind the legality of the issue does not work. Such arguments are transparent and as old as time.

reply to post by Leonidas

A family killed by a fifth generation citizen is no less dead than a family killed by a recent immigrant or vacationing non-citizen.

The point is that the deaths caused by the illegals who shouldn't have been here to begin with was preventable.

We have had amnesties in the past and it didn't work. We were promised secure borders and no more amnesties. Amnesty brought millions more illegals waiting for the next amnesty. We have millions of our own citizens struggling to survive and jobless while millions of illegals are holding jobs.

Many illegals have had years to become legal and chose not to. We have people coming here through the proper channels and they should not take a back seat to these people who will still be living and working here while they wait to be handed citizenship.

reply to post by Leonidas

Trying to hide hate and fear and racism and xenophobia behind the legality of the issue does not work

Those are some very strong words and I believe misunderstood. Havn't you ever known someone who you love to death, but there might be one subject you know you will never agree on? You just agree to disagree and drop it. It doesn't mean you hate the person and if he or she is a different race, it doesn't mean you are racist, it just means you have opposing opinions.

Fear I see in a lot of people looking hard for employment and when an illegal gets chosen instead they are worried sick and fearful for the well being of their family and survival.

Everyone who is against illegal immigration is not a racist. Hell, if America could help the whole world and take in all its poor that would be a wonderful thing but we can't even take care of our own.

Night Star
reply to post by Leonidas

 

Everyone who is against illegal immigration is not a racist. Hell, if America could help the whole world and take in all its poor that would be a wonderful thing but we can't even take care of our own.

I agree. But many of the people posting here in this topic are. They are hiding their real objections, fears or racism behind a legal argument.

reply to post by Leonidas


If they want me to treat them with respect as you say. Abide by the damn laws set fourth to enter MY country LEGALLY. How many times we as Americans see, hear & read about an illegal who just walked across our pourous southern border, with a few kilos of cociane or meth. Do you think that illegal is gonna sell it to his own? Do you think that under the table salary he/she earns goes into our economy?

JUst say the word over & over to yourself. ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT the key word being ILLEGAL. I don't give a fat rats asre where you ILLEGAL from, be it Mexico, or Canada ILLEGAL is ILLEGAl. Period the end. Ive seen what happens with my own eyes. Ive watched it lower wages, Ive watched it clogg the courts, Ive watched it all transpire. To all the legal immigrants who might happen to be reading this. KUDOS for you for being law abideing, these are the folks we want to become American citizens. The ones who want what America has to offer, not just use and abuse the systems we have in place. Call me a racist, I dont care, if wanting one to abide by the law is being racist..then slap the damn cuffs on me...Im guilty.