Homeland Security Secretary: Illegals Have ‘Earned Right to be Citizens

Night Star

Well then why would an American employer hire undocumented immigrants over “perfectly suitable Americans” and if they were “perfect” why did the American employer not hire them? They get paid the same, so why?

reply to post by Horatius

 

Where I was employed they knew full well they were illegals and they did NOT make the same pay as the citizens. I was good friends with the higher ups and office people. The only reason the illegals were hired were so they didn't have to pay them as much.

edit on 28-1-2014 by Night Star because: (no reason given)

it is murder trying to hold down a job when someone younger and illegal will work like a dog with reduced pay and no benefits payed by the employer and take everything thrown at him with YES BOSS

been there it is hard and thankless

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

I don't get your point. Your first source is before the new law. The second clearly states that before 2011 things where bad. We already knew this.

Your third source reflects the new law and there is no jail time. How is that different than what I posted?

Military patrolling the border has what to do with decriminalization and how immigrants are treated?

Guess you missed my post showing that it is actually the US pushing for the tightening of the southern border. If you had ever been to the Mexican-Guatemalan border you would see for yourself how people just cross the river on inner tube rafts without even going through the checkpoint. Yeah, those mexicans have a regular Berlin wall going on.

Night Star

How do you suppose we deport that many people, and more importantly pay for the resources necessary to do this?

reply to post by jrod

 

If you take away the jobs and freebies, they would self deport.

This is another flaw in our current citizenship process. Various local and state governments allow non-citizens to take advantage of programs designed to only help citizens. The most problematic of these is health care. Many programs are designed to help those that can't afford medical care. 99% of the doctors believe in their oath and will help anyone, which I feel, is the human thing to do. I do however think that any program, medical or otherwise, should be required to record acceptable identification of those that avail themselves of that service. You don't need to indicate exactly what services that person utilized, only that you have ID on file of a person making use of that service. Fines would need to be imposed for every service rendered to a person that has no ID on record. This, of course, could only apply to "freebies" that get local, state, or federal funding but could help to recover the cost of those not paying into the system.

With available jobs, you would think that with the job market being crap right now that Americans would be fighting tooth and nail for any job they could get thus limiting what would be available for illegal citizens. I will say, however, that it's more cost effective for a company to hire labor that they don't have to pay a higher wage too especially with the economy still struggling. Stronger and more diligent enforcement of existing labor laws might help to reduce the number of businesses that have illegal immigrants employed but it also might cause some of those businesses to close down. Sadly, a catch 22. With talks of raising the minimum wage it's actually more likely a business that already employ's illegal immigrants will be more likely to do so.
If we really wanted to make sure that businesses only hire legal citizens then we would also need to make sure it was more cost effective to do so. I feel this would require a new direction on minimum wage. If then, we could say that a business would not take a negative hit to the cost of doing business then enforcing stricter labor laws would be more in the realm of realistic. That's not to say that there aren't greedy businesses that simply want to increase the profit margin either but there will always be people willing to hire illegal's for the sake of better profits and so better enforcement of labor laws, at this point, doesn't seem like something that could realistically be accomplished.

This is a subject that I can understand both sides but I admit it's not fair for immigrants who actually follow the rules. I feel bad for people who live in a crappy country but that doesn't give people the right to break the law and giving illegal immigrants path to citizenship discourages legal immigration. Even if we give these people path to citizenship we are just going to have to give more illegal immigrants citizenship in 10 years.

reply to post by Myth024


The fix is easy.

Make getting a job or any state or federal assistance the same as getting a drivers license.

2 pieces of picture ID
1 original social security card
1 original birth certificate
2 pieces of mail to a local address in your name (one a utility bill)

Tomorrow you would see a mass exodus of illegal immigrants leaving the country. Jobs would still need to be done and employers would need to pay people a living wage to do the work. If they were not willing to pay a living wage they would go out of business and someone else would fill the niche. That is the way capitalism works.

Fear mongers keep the dream alive that cheap labor is needed so illegal immigrants are good for America. That drives down wages. That reasoning alone allows employers to pay next to nothing to people that have no choice but to accept less than a living wage to work. Poverty is far better than poverty in their native country because America has social safety nets far supior to most countries. Especially safety nets provided to people living in a country illegaly.

reply to post by daskakik


I'm being honest in showing the evolution of the law and, yes, it does show it getting more lenient than years in a Mexican prison as it was until a few years ago. Now they just deport undocumented people and people overstaying a legal status can appeal or fight the issue.

The original mention was with regard to Mexico being one of the real pressures in forming our new policies up here and pushing for as close to open borders as they can get...while their own southern border is anything but open or similar to how they'd have ours.

neo96

CNSNews.com) – Speaking at the United States Conference of Mayors on Friday, Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson said the approximately 11 million people who are in the country illegally have “earned the right to be citizens.”

How idiotic is this?
So if I break the law by robbing a bank, I am entitled to keep the loot?

benrl
Bull Crap,

The same people that got us here, WILL NOT GET US OUT.

Stop buying this BS, YES immigration is a problem and needs to be fixed, BUT WONT be by either side thats in office now.

This sums it all up here.
Neither side in DC want them out.

Wrabbit2000
I'm being honest in showing the evolution of the law and, yes, it does show it getting more lenient than years in a Mexican prison as it was until a few years ago. Now they just deport undocumented people and people overstaying a legal status can appeal or fight the issue.

You asked "What is that actual law and penalties?". I said that what you thought they were was probably outdated. I'm pretty sure that anybody who has ever followed an immigration thread knows how tough they were before.

The original mention was with regard to Mexico being one of the real pressures in forming our new policies up here and pushing for as close to open borders as they can get...while their own southern border is anything but open or similar to how they'd have ours.

Mexico's southern border has always been more porous. Until the Merida Initiative, and for a while after it was already signed, Mexico didn't even have a border patrol.

The irony is that one of the real pressures in forming their new border policies is the US, based on the Merida Initiative.

reply to post by 200Plus


Requiring that much documentation could be problematic for normal citizens and it also means that you would need to always bring that level of identification with you. There would also always be some people that would still provide assistance and ignore the documentation requirements. However, the idea itself is not without merit. Currently many assistance programs do require some form of ID and some illegal citizens have actually gotten forged documents and pay taxes just like every other resident.

Honestly, I feel that it's more important that we think about how these people can be here legally then trying to think of ways we can get rid of them. No matter what steps we take to restrict entry to this country or how we attempt to make it less comfortable for them to stay, there will always be those who will persevere. Many people view this as a place that has more freedoms and opportunity than any other county in the world. Solving an immigration problem Isn't going to be a one solution fix but a series of solutions that re-think the way immigration to this country is handled.

WOW, Ive been called a racist & a peasant for wanting the immigration laws we have enforced. It must be nice to sit up on high and label folks who have a stand on an issue. Some will never SEE the word Illegal in the term ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION. Ive been called alot of things in my life, racist was never one of them. But I stand by my words. If wanting illegals deported and not wanting 11 million of them given a pass makes me a racist....then a racist I be.

reply to post by daskakik


Yes.. I asked for the actual laws and penalties...and you gave me your interpretation with a happy face on the end. That wasn't the law..that was your view of it.

The Library Of Congress link above shows the law...without happy or unhappy faces put on it. The law, right now and according to our index of Mexico for Immigration laws currently enforced...is deportation to undocumented illegals within their nation, and to quote their General on the matter, in defense of Mexican citizens...for the reasoning.

Not bad reasoning...and it's a shame they go Tilt and start smoking from the logic overload when Americans feel the same way they do, about our OWN citizens.

Indeed.. I did ask for the actual law....and ended up having to find it myself anyway. Thanks for the nudge though...as it was the multiple years in a Mexican Federal Prison I last recall (and it was less than 3 years ago ..and for long running years before that). Now it's outright deporting instead and that is an improvement.

Now....if the Mexican military and Federal Police would just stop robbing and abusing the immigrants on the Southern Border with Guatemala. Guatemala City has had a few VERY pointed and VERY direct things to say about Mexican treatment of their citizens.....much like Mexico whines about American treatment of Mexican citizens.

Amazing how the wheel just keeps turning and the garbage keeps coming 'round and 'round.

reply to post by openyourmind1262



Don't feel bad, I am against ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION also, and guess what? I am still call all kind of names because I am latina, what that tells you? that when the interest behind the pro immigration can not find ways to show what kind of agendas they are really pursuing they got into name calling, like certain bullies with no brains.

marg6043
reply to post by openyourmind1262

 

Don't feel bad, I am against ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION also, and guess what? I am still call all kind of names because I am latina, what that tells you? that when the interest behind the pro immigration can not find ways to show what kind of agendas they are really pursuing they got into name calling, like certain bullies with no brains.

I'm pretty sure it's racist to think all Hispanic and Latino Americans should feel one way about a certain topic. I never understood that about some minorities when they will call their own people names because they don't agree with them on a certain topic yet if someone said all African Americans feel the same way about a topic those same minorities would call the other person a racist.

I just don't see how they don't get the irony or hypocrisy.

Wrabbit2000
Yes.. I asked for the actual laws and penalties...and you gave me your interpretation with a happy face on the end. That wasn't the law..that was your view of it.

I posted a link which mentioned the changes that had been made.

I rarely use emoticons.

The Library Of Congress link above shows the law...without happy or unhappy faces put on it. The law, right now and according to our index of Mexico for Immigration laws currently enforced...is deportation to undocumented illegals within their nation, and to quote their General on the matter, in defense of Mexican citizens...for the reasoning.

I never said it was otherwise. You know as well as I do that people often say "let's do what they do" and point out the felony charges and sentences.

Now....if the Mexican military and Federal Police would just stop robbing and abusing the immigrants on the Southern Border with Guatemala. Guatemala City has had a few VERY pointed and VERY direct things to say about Mexican treatment of their citizens.....much like Mexico whines about American treatment of Mexican citizens.

Abuse of authority sucks no matter where it happens but that wasn't really what you were asking about.

Indigo5

neo96

Melting pot that was damn right hilarious.

Because it means assimilating in to this country.

Playing by its laws.

Damn right! Those Damn Irish!!!

Oh that's right...we are talking about Mexicans now...

Same as it ever was...Germans, Irish, Italians, Chinese, Mexicans...

Your thinking isn't new, just history repeating itself...and always the same outcome, a stronger nation for the diversity.

neo96
reply to post by Indigo5

 

That is exactly right Indigo.

Why shouldn't the Hispanic population /illegals get the same treatment as everyone else ?

For the same reason that African Americans have the right to vote??

We evolve...

What a strange question.

reply to post by marg6043


What does being Latina mean in the context of posting a comment on immigrants having earned the right to be citizens? Are you saying that because you claim to be Latina and against illegal immigration that people with interest in “pro immigration” call you names? What names do they call you?
I’m also quite interested in your wording: “the interest behind the pro immigration”? I will assume you are referring to undocumented immigration since we are a nation of immigrants and therefore we are all “pro-immigration” or at least should be. So if you are referring to illegal immigration then please enlighten us? What are the real agendas that the so called “pro immigration” people?

reply to post by 200Plus


There would not be a mass exodus, this is not Egypt. In fact you would create a bigger problem. The Congressional Budget Office estimated that mandating the employment verification would decrease federal revenues by $17.3 billion and push millions of workers further into the underground economy. Your statement is one of the biggest myths in this discussion where people think “Enforcement and Border Security will Solve the Problem" and this is being proven now that we have very good enforcement and we still have the problem of undocumented people here now, they are not going anywhere and many have American born children and form a part of some our best communities. It is estimated to cost well over $200 billion to deport today's 12 million undocumented immigrants. This cost to taxpayers doesn't begin to account for the resulting devastation of communities, small businesses and local economies. Food would literally rot in the fields. Missing from the debate on both issues is an honest recognition that the food we all eat - at home, in restaurants and workplace cafeterias (including those in the Capitol) - comes to us from the labor of undocumented farm workers.
Agriculture in the United States is dependent on an immigrant workforce. Three-quarters of all crop workers working in American agriculture were born outside the United States. According to government statistics, since the late 1990s, at least 50% of the crop workers have not been authorized to work legally in the United States. The UFW workers and other associations even challenged the population to come take those jobs, the results are embarrassing especially for those against illegal immigration that have no job. This is not fear mongering this is fact. I know what the rebuttal would be: if they paid decent wages… Are you willing to pay 15 dollars for a jumbo jack? Are you willing to give up the dollars menus?

reply to post by Horatius


Do a good, good research and search of ATS archives and all your questions will be answered, after all immigration and ILLGAL IMMIGRATION is a subject that has been extensively exhausted in ATS for years.

Good luck with your research, that is what we are good here in ATS, remember we all have our views and opinion on subjects and we all have the right to express them without been tagged for doing so.

Welcome to ATS.

Night Star

How do you suppose we deport that many people, and more importantly pay for the resources necessary to do this?

reply to post by jrod

 

If you take away the jobs and freebies, they would self deport.

That makes sense on one level, but it doesnt take into consideration of the real problem: they wouldnt risk their lives to come here if people werent willing to hire them, legal or not.

Elsewhere in this thread I saw the worthy suggestion of requiring mutliple photo ID to get a job. All that will do is provide an increase in the fake-ID industry.

The scale of the problem requires new thinking, all solutions up to now cant handle removing 11 million (ya' right!) to 33 million people even if you wanted to.

That is too big for even a military solution, even IF the citizenship and constitution could stomach the military on the streets collecting people into concentration camps for relocation...which it couldnt.

Whole new solutions are needed