Homeland Security Secretary: Illegals Have ‘Earned Right to be Citizens

reply to post by neo96

You're not as tight with your peeps as you think.

Irish government pitches amnesty again

Does it ever stop? The Irish are back with yet another plea for legalization for their tribe. There’s a new ambassador from the Emerald Isle, and one of the early actions of Anne Anderson for US-Ireland relations has been to endorse amnesty for Irish lawbreakers.

Now, I know you are not for it but, you can stop making it sound like the hispanics are the only ones pushing for it.

reply to post by daskakik

You're not as tight with your peeps as you think

I know since my family has been in this country for over 200 years.

Now, I know you are not for it but, you can stop making it sound like the hispanics are the only ones pushing for it.

Thought I made it abundantly clear politics is pushing it because the parties want more voters.

reply to post by neo96

You also singled out Hispanics and said:

Why shouldn't the Hispanic population /illegals get the same treatment as everyone else ?

Oh I forgot the rules don't apply to them.

Just setting the record straight.

reply to post by daskakik


Sorry if the record was set straight illegals would get the same treatment as every one else.

We're not there yet, and doesn't look like we'll ever be.

Because the law is for some people, not for others.

reply to post by neo96

The record being set straight is telling things how they are.

Getting things to be the way you want them to be is something else.

daskakik
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

I'm willing to bet that what you know is outdated. It is know about the same.

edit on 28-1-2014 by daskakik because: Fixed date

That may very well be...and I'll fully allow for the fact that what I know is outdated. So, please, help us by sharing what you know and have apparently shared before on what those laws are? I'm curious now to see how outdated my own knowledge of them may or may not be.

From what you said, you may even know them better than I..which is fine, and all the more reason I'll check back to see what you can add for that area.

Horatius
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

Really, dude- you’re going to use Mexico for your example on immigration law comparisons? You do know Mexico had open borders in area now called the American Southwest? You do know Mexico allowed American settlers into the Mexican territories first? So why oh why did Mexico change its laws? Did it maybe have something to do with losing half its territory --- yeah deny ignorance, right.

I was replying to someone who specifically brought the issue of Mexican law into this discussion... Please check context on things before assuming replies have meaning or other context which, in this case, they clearly did not. It helps avoid misunderstandings, at the very least.

Maybe they have not earned the right yet, but I think it is time to start considering that maybe they deserve it simply because they are human and in their shoes we would want the same things.

Politicians only want the illegals to become citizens for their vote. The people trying to enter this country would be more likely to vote Republican if the Republicans were more welcoming. They are often family oriented with religious backgrounds. Rarely are they actually Liberal, but they want in so they vote on who allows them in. The way they vote is one of the biggest reasons there is such an outcry for letting them in.

For a long time I have thought that Illegals need to go back home. I am tired of them moving here, never learning our language and ways.

I still believe that people who move here need to learn our language and ways but I have been thinking long and hard and I now believe that we should allow them in.

I have been thinking on how our government is changing, if it continues like this I see us facing the same things the illegals trying to get in here are facing. Can you imagine running from a place of war? Of death, a place where thugs rule, where families can not prosper?

I want nothing more for my children to live in peace in a place where they can control their lives, their dreams, a place where they choose their life and path. I do not think that will be here if things continue this way. But for these people here right now, hope is so close and I want them to have it, even it is for just a short while.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

The main thing is that being illegal is no longer a crime and there is no more jail time. They now have a right to a hearing before a judge and are given the opportunity to regularize their status and obtain a work/residence permit.

Also no government agency other than the INM (mexico's version of INS) can ask for papers or detain anyone suspected of being illegal.

Decriminalizing immigration

reply to post by neo96


First, we need to remember that it's not just people coming from Mexico that are illegal although that is most likely the bulk of the illegal citizens. The path to citizenship although there, is a long and difficult process. To simply legalize anyone who is here illegally by granting them citizenship is like sticking your finger at all those who are attempting to get into the U.S. by legal means. I feel the first step is to stream line the citizen ship process so that the application process and the amount of time it takes can be reduced. We still need to recognize that there are millions of illegals here that while may not be contributing with income tax are still contributing to the general workforce. Some people have a tendency to forget that these are human beings that are trying to make a better life for them and their families. The very same reason that people migrated here to begin with. We need to figure out a way to be able to keep these people while still making sure everyone follows a proper path to citizenship. Also, if we simply eliminated income tax completely and instead added on a federal sales tax, we would most likely generate the money we need but that's another discussion entirely.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Point taken. I did not read into the context but you must understand this is one of those arguments I hear all the time and often used to justify our laws here in the U.S.

Indigo5
You need to re-read my post? I said "safety net"...as in SS Medicaire...not "safety"

I see that now, I stand corrected. My mistake. ~$heopleNation

reply to post by Myth024


Many criminals are simply trying to make a better life for their families. I can name a half a dozen people that rob places just to pay rent and utilities every month.

Should went wipe the slate clean for them too?

Since the only problem you have is that they are here illegally, and absolutely nothing else according to your comments, you will obviously drop all your objections when the law is changed and accept them with open arms. Right?

reply to post by daskakik

The main thing is that being illegal is no longer a crime and there is no more jail time.

We could write a whole thread from that one sentence.

Contrary to popular belief and current myths.....the *LAW* hasn't changed here. Congress failed, repeatedly, to get this passed. The last time it was tried with McCain and others in a big Bipartisan push, the American people literally crashed the Capital Hill Switchboard with what I believe was pushing 80% poll numbers hard against amnesty to citizenship.

What has changed isn't the law...it's been the unilateral decision of the Executive branch to stop enforcing the law, as written and as carried. That is what causes more disrespect and outright dislike from people like me than anything about policy itself.

Now could we ever have deported the 20+ million of current illegal aliens? (and that 12 million figure is fantasyland B.S. no one even tried peddling years ago...we're to believe they shrank?) No.. We could never have deported them all. However, 1986 showed everyone that Government WILL NOT secure the border unless FORCED ...and force in this case would only come by delaying their "present" until the chores are done. Like..stopping MORE illegals from flooding in while and AFTER this is all happening.

All 1986 did was build the next wave of illegals, the day after amnesty was generally granted. All this will do..is the same thing. Produce Growers will NOT suddenly start paying the field hands proper min. wages and benefits ...at least not for long. They'll wait for the next wave of desperate illegals to arrive behind the former field pickers who just got downsized or laid off for whatever reasons ..to make room for that cheap labor they NEED.

There are FAR more factors here than just a photogenic latino family with kids saying they don't want to be thrown out....but ONLY that aspect is being addressed here. Like I said, it's 1986, almost to a prefect repeat. The problem is....it really *IS* the same thing because the *SAME* individual congresspeople helped write that one ..who are serving NOW and writing THIS one.

Insanity.... True.. Insanity.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


That was the mexican immigration law, not US, told you that it was almost the same. Actually it is probably more lenient.

I understand that people don't realize that not all infractions are crimes and while people might say it is just semantics, there is a difference and this difference is recognized in the application of law.

reply to post by 200Plus


From my understanding illegal citizens that are caught violating the law are usually deported and rarely jailed. As a citizen they would be jailed but because I'm looking at amnesty as part of a process and not a blanket "here you go you are now a citizen" those that violate the law would violate the purpose of such a type of amnesty. As a result they could be jailed and then deported and not ever allowed to become citizens.
Let's face it, even with amnesty for those that are already here, more will still attempt to enter the country. I feel we need to overhaul the entire citizenship process and rethink the way we allow people to stay here. Sure, we should think about a way to make it more difficult to physically enter the country to begin with but any system will always have flaws somewhere that people will figure out how to use. I'm not even talking about making it any easier but I feel that the current process is slow and poorly implemented.
First you have to apply for a green card, then you have to reside in the U.S. for at least 5 years. The process of getting a green card isn't easy to begin with as you can only get one if you have a legal resident family, a job, or through refugee or Aslyee status. If you don't fall under any of those categories then you move onto other limited options. www.uscis.gov... Many people outside the U.S. don't have access to the necessary forms or applications or even know how to apply for a green card. Some people won't even qualify. Why go through all that when it seems easier to slip across the border and start working.
Although I can't claim to fully understand all the complexities of naturalization, I would suggest something like a yellow card option. Where a person can apply for temporary stay and then have 60 days to find work and residence. Then they can apply for an extension pending green card approval. While they do have to remain in the U.S. for 5 years with a green card and pass a citizenship test, I would allow them to take the test at any time before those 5 years are up but only grant them permanent citizenship after the 5 years is up. I'm sure there are many other ways we can make the path to naturalization a more streamlined and fair approach. Let's not forget that at one point there were no restrictions on who come come into the country and I feel it's that very diversity of ideas and background that has helped this country to grow into the power it is today.

reply to post by daskakik


Oh, definitely not just semantics. Mexico is by no means kind about illegal immigration and I'm not sure where that impression comes from. Until very recently, this story from 2010 described it very well.

Under the Mexican law, illegal immigration is a felony, punishable by up to two years in prison. Immigrants who are deported and attempt to re-enter can be imprisoned for 10 years. Visa violators can be sentenced to six-year terms. Mexicans who help illegal immigrants are considered criminals.

The law also says Mexico can deport foreigners who are deemed detrimental to “economic or national interests,” violate Mexican law, are not “physically or mentally healthy” or lack the “necessary funds for their sustenance” and for their dependents.

Source

A 2013 story says a bit more about recent things, after some changes and a refocus on simply deporting after confirming status rather than a few years of confinement to go with it....I'm thinking they realized it was costing them a fortune, like we ought to by now.

Is Mexico, then, a model of immigration tolerance?

Far from it. Until 2011, when it passed reforms, Mexico had among the most draconian immigration laws in the world. Guatemala has criticized Mexico for initiating construction of a fence along its southern border.

Mexico has zero tolerance for illegal immigrants who seek to work inside Mexico, happen to break Mexican law or go on public assistance — or any citizens who aid them.

Source

And Library of Congress tracks the specifics as an official thing..

Penalties for Unlawful Entry and Overstays

Mexico’s Migration Law provides that undocumented aliens who enter the country without authorization may be deported.[9] Aliens who overstay their visas or engage in activities different from those authorized may apply for legal status, provided that applicable requirements are met.[10] Those requirements include paying a fine ranging from twenty to one hundred days of the general minimum daily wage in force in Mexico’s Federal District.[11] As of March 2013, the general minimum daily wage in the Federal District was $64.76 Mexican pesos[12] (approximately US$5.20).[13]

Source

The section at the bottom of the LOC info shows border security status and focus. I was surprised to see the Mexican Military was officially doing some of the border patrol in the last couple years. Of course, I've heard about the military vehicles and likely military units crossing the border by 'accident' from time to time but it's interesting to see 2012 onward had commitments to strengthen the military operations on both the Northern and Southern Mexican borders.

Where had you seen they took a strong turn toward being softer?

Well then why would an American employer hire undocumented immigrants over “perfectly suitable Americans” and if they were “perfect” why did the American employer not hire them? They get paid the same, so why?

reply to post by Horatius


Where I was employed they knew full well they were illegals and they did NOT make the same pay as the citizens. I was good friends with the higher ups and office people. The only reason the illegals were hired were so they didn't have to pay them as much.

How do you suppose we deport that many people, and more importantly pay for the resources necessary to do this?

reply to post by jrod


If you take away the jobs and freebies, they would self deport.