Can someone be pro-life and still eat meat?

reply to post by ManBehindTheMask


Actually, lions and other predators usually kill quickly. Bite to the jugular first and wait for death before devouring.

FlySolo
reply to post by ManBehindTheMask

 

Actually, lions and other predators usually kill quickly. Bite to the jugular first and wait for death before devouring.

You couldnt be more wrong, some lions might but if youve ever watched hyenas, wolves, or any other animal that hunt in packs they often dont wait.....but I digress.....

Youre dodging my question....we can do semantics all day......

If eating animals is mistreatment like youve stated, then is it considered mistreatment in the animal kingdom

ManBehindTheMask
reply to post by Aleister

 

Take Native Americans for example and many other native people across the world....

They hold life to a whole nother standard then most people do, its the backbone of their whole belief system, including the life of the animals they eat. I would call them more pro life then any activist with an agenda.

They pray and give thanks before and after they kill their game.....

I get what you mean. But come with me on a brief Thought Experiment for a moment...

Say some person comes up to you, and with tears in their eyes, they say "I thank you and Mother Nature for your sacrifices, so that I may live," and then that person kills you, says a prayer, and then proceeds to gut, skin, butcher, and cook you, is that acceptable?

Is it okay that you have now been killed, because it was done with reverence for your sacrifice?


I'm pretty sure that most people who have a healthy psychology and self esteem would answer with a resounding "NO! That's not okay! I want to live, not end up as someone's lunch!"


So I ask you -- Why Is this different for animals other than humans?

reply to post by Aleister


You rarely ever see someone saying "save the tumors" or " I brake for cancer cells". - Paraphrased from George Carlin

The right to life thing is completely idiotic. It doesnt transfer to all things. Just when it is convenient.

reply to post by Aleister


Judging from your post and username, I'm going to venture to say that you're the one with a "huge disconnect". The fact that you're trying to equate a human life with an animals life is also worrying.



**Edit**

FlySolo
Actually, lions and other predators usually kill quickly. Bite to the jugular first and wait for death before devouring.

Yeah, they really don't. A lion could care less of what pain their meal is in. Same for any animal. I'd throw up some links but fear they'd be against ATS's T&C's. Just the other day I saw a video of a pack of lions eating a zebra alive that lasted for 10 to 15 minutes. Needless to say, I won't be watching any animal shows /vids for a long time.

'Pro-life' is a term typically used in context with the abortion debate as it relates to human life only. If you try to stretch the meaning to include all forms of life, yes, you might think of it as contradictory behavior, but the simple fact is, most people aren't using the term 'pro-life' in an absolute sense, nor do most people value animals to the level they value humans. As such, I think you've created a false argument by attempting to attribute a meaning that is not implied or intended.

reply to post by ManBehindTheMask


I suppose you could be right. I think it's just the big cats that do that. BTW, I'm a meat eater and I'm pro-choice. I just like the OP because it does make sense. If you're against abortions, you should be a vegan. Besides plants, life is still life. I do see a shred of hypocrisy there...

reply to post by ManBehindTheMask

So eating animals is mistreatment? Would you say that lions tearing apart a gazelle is mistreatment?

Why does the argument always have to become so absurd?
Factory farms cram egg-laying hens into cages so tiny they can't even spread their wings. Breeding pigs and veal calves are stuffed into cramped individual cages barely larger than their bodies. They can’t walk or turn around.

I chose the most simple and inoffensive information I could show you here -

I'm a vegetarian - but ate meat most of my life

I would eat meat still (maybe - it's fascinating how your tastes and needs can change...) if it weren't for the fact that it's tortured for quite a while before it's killed

We all die - animals included. Death is one thing - constant torment is another

In the natural world, animals seldom die an easy death - and yes, things kill other things

We kill other things - and we eat them

I see no reason why they have to suffer - none

reply to post by Auricom


That's nonsense. Some animal's lives are worth more than some human lives. I would gladly save a drowning dog over some people I know.

FlySolo
reply to post by Auricom

 

That's nonsense. Some animal's lives are worth more than some human lives. I would gladly save a drowning dog over some people I know.

Nonsense? I don't think you know what that word means.

P.S.
Dogs are my favorite kind of people.

reply to post by Auricom


It's the inexperienced young cats that eat before killing. Older ones do the quick kill first. I've watched a lot of nature shows.

Why are plants OK to eat and not animals? Plants are just as ( if not more so )sophisticated than animals only mans limited knowlege says they are not. Everything is energy, so the quality of the energy (food) you put into your body is of paramount importance for all sorts of reasons one may easily imagine, but also the biggest reason the metaphysical one. Know how your food is raised. Organically, Biodynamically, free from factories, mass production and mindless slaughter. Find some really good farmers, talk to them about how they raise their animals and crops, seek farmers with ethos. I personally think eating anything living is barbaric, but that is the way this stage of the game is played, personally I'd rather just absorb the energy of the cosmos. There is a metaphysics to food my freind, go with the flow, do not try to control, just master. Like a surfer, she rides the wave, doesn't try to control it (can't anyway) just ride and if your one with the wave, if you master it, it will take you where you really want to go. PEACE.

reply to post by Auricom


You don't think I know what the word "nonsense" means? Are you kidding? For example, You claiming I don't know the meaning of nonsense is well,erm, nonsensical.

reply to post by FlySolo


Lol, "I watch a lot of nature shows". There's a big difference in what is shown on TV contra the nitty gritty of amateur safari tapes. I welcome you to visit LiveLeak.

FlySolo
You claiming I don't know the meaning of nonsense is well,erm, nonsensical.

No, you're pretty much proving you don't know what it means. I made no nonsensical claims in my previous post. A human life cannot be compared with that of an animal. And I'm mainly referring to children as that's what this topic is about. And my claim goes doubly for children.

Pedophiles, rapists and the ilk I would agree upon. Their lives aren't worth my pet rats life, nor our dog or cats life. But I'd sacrifice all of their lives to save a good person even though it'd break my heart.

reply to post by HUMBLEONE


We have to eat something! (except for those faux yogis who claim to live on air, and then they hurt the tiny life in the air)

Vegans eat the seeds of plants, not the plants. Or fruit, which are just seed pods.

Tearing the leaves off probably hurts the plants, but it's them or us. I'll go ten rounds with a rice paddy any day.

iwilliam

ManBehindTheMask
reply to post by Aleister

 

Take Native Americans for example and many other native people across the world....

They hold life to a whole nother standard then most people do, its the backbone of their whole belief system, including the life of the animals they eat. I would call them more pro life then any activist with an agenda.

They pray and give thanks before and after they kill their game.....

I get what you mean. But come with me on a brief Thought Experiment for a moment...

Say some person comes up to you, and with tears in their eyes, they say "I thank you and Mother Nature for your sacrifices, so that I may live," and then that person kills you, says a prayer, and then proceeds to gut, skin, butcher, and cook you, is that acceptable?

Is it okay that you have now been killed, because it was done with reverence for your sacrifice?


I'm pretty sure that most people who have a healthy psychology and self esteem would answer with a resounding "NO! That's not okay! I want to live, not end up as someone's lunch!"


So I ask you -- Why Is this different for animals other than humans?

very cool thought experiment and good question....

My answer would be this.....How do you know that animals dont have the same outlook? Just because we can communicate on their level doesnt mean their sense of self couldnt be similar....

Im not advocating either side of the debate here....just my thoughts

reply to post by FlySolo


You haven't watched many lion kills have you?

Some predators kill quickly, but most don't. Wild dogs have been known to tear their prey apart, disemboweling it.



I wouldn't call some of the croc kills I've seen quick and merciful, either ... or quick. This wildebeest fought this croc for 30 minutes before being drowned.



Male cheetahs can bring down larger prey, but they don't have long enough teeth to deliver a very deep bite. They suffocate slowly. Listen to how long it takes them to stop this wildebeest bawling. In order to bawl, it's getting some air. That's slow suffocation. It's also still thrashing when they start chewing. To quote Jurassic Park, "The point is, you're still alive when they start eating."



And anyone who has a housecat has likely seen this ...



And they do eat the mice. Housecats can be cruel little bastards.

So no, predators do not always kill quickly.

FlySolo
reply to post by ManBehindTheMask

 

I suppose you could be right. I think it's just the big cats that do that. BTW, I'm a meat eater and I'm pro-choice. I just like the OP because it does make sense. If you're against abortions, you should be a vegan. Besides plants, life is still life. I do see a shred of hypocrisy there...

but why besides plants? plants are life too and they feel as well, like I stated above, people like to make concessions for things that dont fit their comfort zones or ideals...

Like you im a meat eater and pro choice, but i dont believe that if youre a meat eater youre a hypocrite for being pro life...

I just dont see the animal kingdom which we are apart of , and eating to sustain life, as in the same context as abortion...

Just seems apples and oranges to me...


But i could be wrong

reply to post by Auricom

No, you're pretty much proving you don't know what it means. I made no nonsensical claims in my previous post. A human life cannot be compared with that of an animal. And I'm mainly referring to children as that's what this topic is about. And my claim goes doubly for children.

Pedophiles, rapists and the ilk I would agree upon. Their lives aren't worth my pet rats life, nor our dog or cats life. But I'd sacrifice all of their lives to save a good person even though it'd break my heart.

And you somehow think I was referring to children or something? CLEARLY I was talking about dirt bags which you already mentioned.

Now you're just making me mad. People in your life haven't told you, you were right enough about something? Yes, it is NONSENSE, NONSENSICAL, STUPID, IDIOTIC, MORONIC to say " A human life cannot be compared with that of an animal" when you already AGREE that pedos, rapists and other losers don't deserve life. It's like saying " hey, I agree with you 50% but you don't know the meaning of what you said"

Dummy.

Aleister
reply to post by HUMBLEONE

 

We have to eat something! (except for those faux yogis who claim to live on air, and then they hurt the tiny life in the air)

Vegans eat the seeds of plants, not the plants. Or fruit, which are just seed pods.

Tearing the leaves off probably hurts the plants, but it's them or us. I'll go ten rounds with a rice paddy any day.

"But it's them or us." The words right out of the OP's mouth. Us meat eaters can say the same about animals.

You can't eat without eating some other form of life. Being vegan is hypocritical anyway you argue it if you want to argue the "life" aspect of it. Do your thing, eat your seeds and just leave people with other views than yours alone. I don't see any post from pro lifers on here chastising vegans for eating seeds and preventing the life of new plants from growing.