Pelosi: NSA Leaker Snowden Not Traitor But 'Should Face the Music'...What Music Nancy?

smurfy

That sucks doesn't it? So Snowden just gave up this $250K job to go and live in Russia all for the CIA who by this time are a rich bunch of oligarchs' in their own right, that makes some sense. Besides the NSA and CIA and FBI and all the rest answer to the NCTC now.

Oh...I'd imagine he's got quite the golden parachute to live on.....

He doesn't strike me as a simpleton....

reply to post by smurfy

That is true, but the laws are very specific in this case, and it was decided when the Pentagon papers were released. The courts reasoned that the reporters and papers were protected, while the person who released the information was not protected under the laws of the USA.

reply to post by Taupin Desciple

Here is where you are wrong, the laws are very clear cut, and this is the issue. The information that Snowden took and released was classified. Releasing classified information, be it that you know it or not, is against the law. Do you realize that if you are not authorized to look at or read classified information is a felony offense? And in all of the contracts that Snowden had to sign, as a contractor who was working for the federal government and as part of getting a security clearance, it is clearly stated in the paperwork that revealing said information is a felony and a person can be sent to prison, along with paying a large fine.
No matter how noble the intent, he still broke the laws of the USA and there will be a list of charges that will be levied against him, the first being on the Espionage Act, and then there will be theft and releasing of information. Now these are just charges, the federal government will still have to prove each and every charge in a court of law.
The legal precedent for this was set in 1971. And it did go all of the way to the US Supreme Court. And in the opinions of the court, the press was safe, however, the person(s) who released the information were the ones who would have to bear the brunt of the law and pay the price for such. And further validated in the 1980 case, where the person had access to classified information, worked for a government agency and then published such without prior approval and was thus subject to the laws of the US for such actions, to include fines and penalties as well.

These are just charges that are being levied against Snowden, and until such is given in an official court of law, where it would be very public. So be it as we may or may not like it, he is guilty of breaking the laws and ultimately breaching confidentiality. It would be the same as working for a company and having access to information, then taking said information and giving it out without profit. The laws on proprietary information are very clear cut, and when it deals with the federal government it then goes into another category and into where there is jail time.

Sure, Snowden broke laws, but then so did the founding fathers. They would have been put to death had they tried to 'give themselves up" or 'turn themselves in' to face the public court and trial. Snowden is no different. What he did was heroic, what George Washington did was heroic. Talking about all the laws he broke and confidentiality agreements he broke is a smoke screen. The issue is what the NSA and other alphabet agencies are doing now and have been doing for years. Time to reign them in. Time to take back our freedom.

What music? The theme to "Funny girl".

What scum government we have. Call Snowden a traitor all you want, but it doesn't dismiss their own filthy treachery treasonous acts against the American people. They have broken our most sacred laws.

Is it espionage to let the American people know that they are being spied upon? ... I don’t know the facts.”

Talk about opening your mouth and removing all doubt. I distinctly remember how in history class my teacher went out oft her way recounting how the Nazis opened and read letters in the postal system portraying it as an nazi thing to do.

Now citizens elaewhere should look into the spying their own government dies. The cold war is over.

smurfy
It's funny how politicians spend all day throwing paper darts at the other parties, then get all huggy and kissy together when they see a common foe...in this case Snowden who has all the pictures of them with their trousers down.
No wonder fancy Nancy wants him home, probably to smother him with dollars to get him to STFU.

So true its like its all part of the bigger plan ,make it look like they are against each other when really they work together, no matter who you vote for you still always vote for "them" because they are all in on it together,by making the people think they have the choice to vote it gives them a false sense of freedom.

amazing
Sure, Snowden broke laws, but then so did the founding fathers. They would have been put to death had they tried to 'give themselves up" or 'turn themselves in' to face the public court and trial. Snowden is no different. What he did was heroic, what George Washington did was heroic. Talking about all the laws he broke and confidentiality agreements he broke is a smoke screen. The issue is what the NSA and other alphabet agencies are doing now and have been doing for years. Time to reign them in. Time to take back our freedom.

couldnt have said it better myself friend and you are right it is time for a revolution!

Again, I don't want him held accountable for blowing the whistle I just want him held accountable for what he did wrong.

Most importantly I want the Govt/NSA to change because of this.

We agree on that last point, but could you explain how he could have blown the whistle here without doing something wrong? Something tells me that someone like him exhausted all other avenues, and that what he did was a last resort. Remember, he didn't make any money out of this. All he made himself was an exile from his homeland. This doesn't sound like a well thought out and executed plan to me, this sounds like a man who had a moral compass in a moral wasteland, the NSA, and decided to use it for the sake of everyone on the receiving end of people in charge without morals. But since we can't put a law on morals, since they're the intangible in all of this, they count for nothing I suppose.

You keep going on about the letter of the law. I'm not saying he didn't break any laws, I'm saying he had to in order to expose whatever wrongdoing he exposed. I'm not one who doesn't want laws. A lawless society is an unproductive one, but at least have those laws fair to all parties involved. If there were nothing wrong with the laws we're talking about here, educated people and people in the know about these things wouldn't be debating this issue for as long as they have. If everything were as black and white as you say they are, there would be no shades of gray. There would be no room for debate.

All in all, I'm never going to be convinced that Snowden needs to be punished for anything he did. He broke laws that were designed to protect those on the top. If they weren't designed in that fashion,why are they so pissed off? For our sake? Don't insult my intelligence.

Taupin Desciple
We agree on that last point, but could you explain how he could have blown the whistle here without doing something wrong?

Because not all the 1.7 million classified docs or info he stole was related to information illegally obtained by the NSA.

Lets say I did the same thing..I took information such as classified server names, IP addresses, numbers, resource management, etc and illegally transported, stored or traded those things then I would face stiff fines and depending on the level of the breach jail time.

Taupin Desciple
He broke laws that were designed to protect those on the top. If they weren't designed in that fashion,why are they so pissed off? For our sake? Don't insult my intelligence.

Why don't you post your checking account or credit card info here, it's hard to imagine why anyone would get mad at a breach of classified information, be it personal or higher, right?

INFOSEC laws, rules and regulations are designed to protect data and information.

Please help me stop insulting your intelligence, which type of clearance did you have: Civilian or Military? That will help me understand why you don't understand why I see his methods, not the content or possibly end result, as being wrong.

In the end that is all I have ever said, if he turns out to be the real deal and makes a change for the better then that should be considered when he is eventually caught but that doesnt change the fact he should do the same jail time for the laws he actually broke as any other person would. It just means to me that he shouldn't serve more severe penalties for whistleblowing.

opethPA

smurfy
He did not break any 'law' What he did was to expose those who were already breaking the law under their given mandate, that makes anything he did outside the scope of 'classified' You cannot 'classify' something by a nod and a wink when acting illegally.

It also has nothing to do with a "nod and a wink".

Well, I just got hold of a working Snowden German interview, and at around 9.04 onward you will hear Snowden assert that's exactly how they were operating, except he calls it a "nudge and a wink"