Looking for life in a different way

I was wondering if there are other ways to look for life on other planets. Not just photographic evidence.

Civilisations give off tell-tale signs, not only methane on Mars, but also heat signatures, IR signatures, radio transmissions, etc
If we looked at a map of Mars or the Moon for example, could we see areas which were hotter than others, or could we see white spots where the IR is more intense? What signs would someone be looking for and are these datasets available for the Moon and Mars?

I realise that temperature, pressure and other datasets are available, but I was reading somewhere that the temperatures are too general and are averaged daily and nightly temperatures which are virtually useless for hunting for signs of life.

What we would need is a detailed map of the surface with areas which are hotter or colder being highlighted. Of course, I am sure NASA have thought of this too and IF there is a huge conspiracy to keep us in the dark, then these datasets would not be available if they showed any evidence of life - either underground or on the surface.

Any thoughts on this?

reply to post by qmantoo


Both the Moon and Mars have been imaged in infrared. Google it.

Google Mars has "Global Maps" of both daytime and night time infrared, quite detailed.

However, what about searching for life on exoplanets? And what if most life out there are not civilizations but colonies of germs and algae?

I think the best way would be different kinds spectroscopy for different none naturally occurring molecules. Methane is not a good example because it can occur with out life. Titan for example is full of Methane, But Cyclical hydrocarbons such as benzene would be a good indicator. You could also compare the age of the star and the radionuclides present and if there are radio nuclides present that do not have a half lives 10Xs longer than the age of the star than it is almost dead give away of intelligent life.

Years ago on ATS, I once referenced a paper titled Astrobiologfy: The Case for Venus by Geoffrey Landis (science fiction author and NASA researcher) that discussed analysis of the atmosphere of Venus that suggested the possibility of life existing in the clouds of Venus.

I can't find the article anymore, except if I want to pay for it (the old free links seem to be dead), but in it, Landis cited works by Dirk Schulze-Makuch and David Grinspoon that showed how "inequilibriums" of O2, H2, H2S, and SO2 have been found in the clouds of Venus, and those inequilibriums can suggest life processes. It is thought that these "inequilibriums" (imbalances of what the expected ratios of these compounds should be) may be caused by life processes.

The paper does say that other NON-life forces may be at work there, but the point is that life processes can possibly be found by analyzing ratios of elements and compounds in a planet's atmosphere. And astrobiology researchers ARE using methods such as this to detect potential signs of life elsewhere.

However, what about searching for life on exoplanets? And what if most life out there are not civilizations but colonies of germs and algae?

Apparently there is value in searching for germs and algae too. It would at least show some kind of life and once we found some, then we could all get used to the idea of the larger lifeforms which some of us believe already exist out there.

Yes, the IR mapping already show blooms of algae in the seas and lakes on Earth and would show energy plants if there were any made by aliens on other planets - but only if the maps are in sufficient detail and not averaged out. I dont know about you, but my energy usage goes up and down during the day and so I suppose any IR snapshot image looking at my house would probably not show much when my heating was off or when my heated swimming pool was empty. (Although I dont live in a house and I dont have a swimming pool)

However, having said that IR maps are available, a 500m/pixel map is not going to show where the aliens are hiding is it? :-)

The Astrogeology Program of the U.S. Geological Survey is pleased to announce the availability of a reduced-resolution version of the Clementine near-infrared (NIR) mosaic. Processed to 500 m/pixel spatial resolution, an ISIS cube version of this multispectral mosaic can be downloaded in east and west hemispheres (70° N to 70° S) here on the USGS Astrogeology Research Program web site.

Soylent -

The paper does say that other NON-life forces may be at work there, but the point is that life processes can possibly be found by analyzing ratios of elements and compounds in a planet's atmosphere. And astrobiology researchers ARE using methods such as this to detect potential signs of life elsewhere

But.. are they doing that for the Moon and Mars? Certainly, they have done that as far as water is concerned and I have seen a breakdown of the gases on Mars, but unless folks know what it all means we are going to be staying in the dark about whether it means anything scientifically significant as far as ET and his friends are concerned.

You can say that I am sure they would tell us if they found anything but I am not really so sure they would, due to pressure from the scientific community and losing their own good reputation as a credible scientist.

qmantoo
Soylent -

The paper does say that other NON-life forces may be at work there, but the point is that life processes can possibly be found by analyzing ratios of elements and compounds in a planet's atmosphere. And astrobiology researchers ARE using methods such as this to detect potential signs of life elsewhere

But.. are they doing that for the Moon and Mars?

I couldn't find links to this sort of information for the Moon, but that may be because the Moon's atmosphere is virually non-existent (even more sparse than vacuum chambers on Earth), and that atmosphere is mostly hugs the surface, being the result of dust kicked up by micrometeors and off-gassing of rocks and soil.

As for Mars, there is ongoing research into the possible detection of methane in the atmosphere of Mars. Scientists are trying to determine several things, such as: what could possibly be the source of the methane -- biological or natural, and even if the methane gas detection is a false positive (although it seems as if the methane is really there).

Formaldehyde has also been found in the atmosphere of mars, which may imply life processes.
Here is an article about formaldehyde on Mars, which discusses the pros and cons of the formaldehyde-implies-life hypothesis:

Formaldehyde claim inflames martian debate



NASA researchers have also done some analysis of the atmosphere and surface of Titan, and have been initially intrigued by some of the findings. There is a lack of acetylene which may imply methane-based life on Titan, because acetylene could be and energy source for methane-based life. Granted, the research is in its infancy, and there are other nonbioligical processes that could possibly explain this lack of acetylene.

Below is an article on the subject:

NASA Article: What is Consuming Hydrogen and Acetylene on Titan?

Certainly, they have done that as far as water is concerned and I have seen a breakdown of the gases on Mars, but unless folks know what it all means we are going to be staying in the dark about whether it means anything scientifically significant as far as ET and his friends are concerned.

Most of the information I read does not really require anymore than a basic high school understanding or a university low-level course understanding of chemistry and biology. If moderately educated lay-people took the time to read these things carefully, they should gain at least a basic understanding of what is being presented to them, and they should not be in the dark.

You can say that I am sure they would tell us if they found anything but I am not really so sure they would, due to pressure from the scientific community and losing their own good reputation as a credible scientist.

This sort of thing is a discussion-ender, because no matter what "TPTB" says, you can always simply claim "Yeah -- but what if they're lying/not telling us everything", which is a claim that cannot be countered.

No questions can ever be answered adequately to the satisfaction some people if the answer is always countered by those people with "but what if they're not telling us everything"

qmantoo
I was wondering if there are other ways to look for life on other planets. Not just photographic evidence.

Civilisations give off tell-tale signs, not only methane on Mars, but also heat signatures, IR signatures, radio transmissions, etc
If we looked at a map of Mars or the Moon for example, could we see areas which were hotter than others, or could we see white spots where the IR is more intense? What signs would someone be looking for and are these datasets available for the Moon and Mars?

I realise that temperature, pressure and other datasets are available, but I was reading somewhere that the temperatures are too general and are averaged daily and nightly temperatures which are virtually useless for hunting for signs of life.

What we would need is a detailed map of the surface with areas which are hotter or colder being highlighted. Of course, I am sure NASA have thought of this too and IF there is a huge conspiracy to keep us in the dark, then these datasets would not be available if they showed any evidence of life - either underground or on the surface.

Any thoughts on this?

edit on 25 Jan 2014 by qmantoo because: add link

Yes. There are plenty of ways to look for both basic life and intelligent life via detecting biomarkers such as oxygen and methane in a planet's atmosphere to detecting radio signals, to looking for waste heat from a civilization (either on a planet or inside a Dyson Sphere/Shell), to looking for clusters of city lights on a planet's night side (future).

I have plenty of information and videos on all of the above but sine you seem very interested in detecting civilization's technology through waste heat then you will like this:



Check out: www.the-colossus.com...


Since you are interested in a search in our solar system I will point you to the following which is a search for artificial lights out in the Kuiper Belt of our solar system (where the comets come from):

Our civilization uses two basic classes of illumination: thermal (incandesent light bulbs) and quantum (light emitting diodes [LEDs] and fluorescent lamps). Such artificial light sources have different spectral properties than sunlight. The spectra of artificial lights on distant objects would likely distinguish them from natural illumination sources, since such emission would be exceptionally rare in the natural thermodynamic conditions present on the surface of relatively cold objects. Therefore, artificial illumination may serve as a lamppost which signals the existence of extraterrestrial technologies and thus civilizations.

From the paper: Detection Technique for Artificially-Illuminated Objects in the Outer Solar System and Beyond - Abraham Loeb (Harvard), Edwin L. Turner (Princeton) - Astrobiology Magazine - arXiv:1110.6181 [astro-ph.EP]

It should be kept in mind....

The first order of business is to show that searching for artificial lighting is possible within the Solar System, which Loeb and Turner approach by looking at objects in the Kuiper Belt. The technique is “…to measure the variation of the observed flux F as a function of its changing distance D along its orbit.” Working the math, they conclude that “…existing telescopes and surveys could detect the artificial light from a reasonably brightly illuminated region, roughly the size of a terrestrial city, located on a KBO.” Indeed, existing telescopes could pick out the artificially illuminated side of the Earth to a distance of roughly 1000 AU. If something equivalent to a major terrestrial city existed in the Kuiper Belt, we would be able to see its lights.

So while such a search in our solar system is unlikely to turn up anything but people are looking anyway as a means to test out techniques we may use on extrasolar planets.

If we have the capability to detect a city far out in the Kuiper Belt, might as well search right?

Like i said, this stuff is my major in college (see the line below this post) so if you have any questions feel free to ask.

Oh and I made a hypothetical story based on current science and future telescopes as well as real people (whose names were changed) about the detection of a civilization through these means on a planet around the star 40 Eridani A here:

ATS: Astronomers Detect First 'Clear Signs of Civilization' Beyond Earth - How will you react?

qmantoo
What signs would someone be looking for and are these datasets available for the Moon and Mars?