Sheriff Arpaio Puts 38 Inmates on Bread and Water

reply to post by muzzleflash


How would anything about that sentiment be seeing the world as 'us and them'? It's referring to how there are clear differences of opinion toward one area of current events among society. We've seen that difference of opinion played out on these very forums, on many a law enforcement related thread. Depending on the specific situation and details, I've also been both for and against cops/law enforcement. Depends on what happened.

Still, it's opinion among people that differs. Nothing to define us vs them in any way.

If there is any two sided thing about the situation here, it's those who are inmates vs. those who are not and never will be. There lay a major problem too, and it's just how easy it can be to end up in jail on any range of 'crimes' which really ought to be matters of civil court, not criminal and jail space.

That is a Political, not jail level issue though and we can change Sheriff's like bed sheets while absolutely nothing about the system we hate most will really change. The Politicians writing laws and min. mandatory sentences are the source of that issue. The ones who keep getting re-elected, term to term to term...because only the party hacks show up to vote.

muzzleflash
That's actually pretty psychopathic.

How is only allowing them to eat bread and water "psychopathic?"

It's jail, not a 5 star restaurant. they aren't there to have their precious palates pleased, especially when showing disrespect.

pavil
Has there ever been a study on how many of Sheriff Joe's inmates become repeat "vistors" to the Corrections System vs the rest of the Prison population? I'd be very curious if his way of doing business results in less repeat offenders. I would hope so, but the prison population isn't bursting at the seams with Mensa applications either.

Anyone know of a report like that?

As it happens, I found one and interesting results...

Maricopa County Adult Probation Department‟s performance results for FY11 show tremendous progress towards achieving safe communities and reduced crime. Revocations to prison and new felony convictions have dropped significantly, while successful completions of probation have increased. 1,601 fewer people were revoked to prison during FY11 than in FY08.

885 fewer probationers had a new felony sentencing in FY11 compared to the number with a new felony sentencing in FY08.

1,340 more people successfully completed probation during FY11 than in FY08.

Source: Maricopa County Justice System Report 2010/2011 (PDF File)

It's a county report, at their .gov site, FWIW.

Wrabbit2000

If there is any two sided thing about the situation here, it's those who are inmates vs. those who are not and never will be.

That's the problem.
It's a fantasy.

There is no such thing as 'Those who are inmates vs those who are not and never will be', ANYONE can land in there even if they are innocent it happens all the time.

But this topic is about abuse of detainees and the illegitimate use of an American flag to troll them into getting into more trouble.
That is why I said I'd tear it down till I died of them illegally beating me for it, because that flag is suppose to represent due process, liberty, and the respect of human rights.

This is a complete insult to that flag and so I'd tear it down always no question.
No desecration I could do to it would scratch it compared to the desecration brought onto it by those who wave it blindly.

I don't see how anyone can justify extreme inhumane punishments for anyone...
Unless we were to split people into two groups, one being "good people", and the other being not so good.
Oh this must be a form of 'Dehumanization'?

reply to post by Wrabbit2000



Wait, you're not sure what I am referring to? you're gonna make your mind up without knowing all of the facts, just because you heard something through the grapevine, and because you read some books by Sheriff Joe? That's all I need to know.No need for any further discussion.

reply to post by muzzleflash

I don't see how anyone can justify extreme inhumane punishments for anyone...

We very simply have a strong difference of opinion on what constitutes that. Bread and Water is miserable. It's not inhumane. There's a difference between being uncomfy or downright hating life......and actually being abused or treated inhumanely.

A bit of time taken to look at jails and the way prisoners are handled around the world is a useful side effort, to see how that comes to be defined in other places. I just don't see what's being done in this story or how the Sheriff runs his jail as falling into that.

Evidence showing that this actually has been a problem continually:

Judge backs county inmates in jail case

A federal judge has sided with inmates' claims that conditions in Maricopa County jails continue to violate their constitutional rights.

U.S. District Court Judge Neil V. Wake on Wednesday modified a 1995 judgment that laid guidelines for a wide range of issues in Maricopa County jails, including medical and mental-health care, population control and record keeping.

Maricopa County sheriff's officials said they plan to comply with the judge's orders.

Then an article a few years later....
Judge : County failed to improve jails' medical, mental-health conditions

Maricopa County officials have failed to improve medical and mental-health conditions in county jails, 16 months after a federal judge found those conditions unconstitutional, according to a review by U.S. District Judge Neil V. Wake.

Wake issued a landmark ruling in October 2008 that found conditions in the jails failed to meet constitutional standards in key areas, including the quality of food, inmate access to recreation areas, temperatures in which inmates taking psychiatric medication are held, and the quality and availability of medical and mental-health care.

On Wednesday, Wake ruled that expert reports submitted in March found "significant areas of failure to comply" and noted that "it appears as though most of the improvements made regarding medical and mental-health services have been those imposing little or no additional cost on defendants."

And it continues in more detail:

Sheriff Joe Arpaio and the Maricopa County Board of Supervisors are named as defendants. The county's Correctional Health Services agency, the taxpayer-funded group that provides health care in the jails, is mentioned frequently in the expert's reports that Wake cited in his Wednesday ruling.

Wake noted that the system's most critically needed improvements, including installing an electronic medical-records system and medication-management tools, "appear to have been disregarded or postponed to avoid expense."

Avoiding the expense for installing those systems has already cost taxpayers.

Since 1998, the county has paid $13 million in legal fees, settlements and jury verdicts to inmates and their families for injury and death claims against Correctional Health Services.

In September, the supervisors agreed to pay $1.2 million to cover the costs of the inmates' attorneys, and those costs likely will escalate.

We could dig up garbage on this guy all night.
DOJ Uncovers Rampant Lawbreaking

In 2010 federal officials filed an unprecedented suit against Arpaio for breaking the law by refusing to turn over extensive records related to booking procedures, inmate interpretation services, and arrests. He also would not give investigators access to his staff or jails. A man who relishes brutally enforcing the law acted as if it did not apply to him.
After officials threatened to withhold millions of dollars in federal funding from Maricopa County, “accusations of mismanagement forced Arpaio to place three top aides on administrative leave, among them former Chief Deputy David Hendershott.”
Arpaio has had a breathtaking 2,700 law suits filed against him between 2004 and 2007. In addition to the DOJ, he has been investigated by Congress, the FBI and a Federal Grand Jury for civil rights violations and abuse of power. In no small part because of Arpaio’s well-documented targeting of people who look foreign but have committed no crime, the majority of inmates in his jails are Latino males.
While Arpaio pursued an obessive, politically motivated assault on immigrants to enhance his national profile, he routinely failed to investigate more pressing cases of violent crime, including more than 400 sex crimes. He ignored dozens of alleged child molestations with some victims as young as two. Unsurprisingly, many of the children were undocumented immigrants.

I don't see how all of these allegations and claims could amount to nothing.
I am afraid it looks like this guy is going way overboard with his "Crusade".

reply to post by xuenchen


The sherrif reminds me of the Jim jones waco cult figure head who plays God. Does anyone else see this?

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

You have heard of correlation not equaling causation, haven't you? The fact that felony revocation of probation is down has absolutely nothing to do with Joe , it's a statewide trend due to policy changes statewide when handling probation violations. . . here is a bunch of links to help...

www.google.com...:en-USfficial&client=firefox-a

Wrabbit2000

We very simply have a strong difference of opinion on what constitutes that.

I don't have an opinion about it, I support the facts.

United Nations Convention against Torture

Article 1 of the Convention defines torture as:
Any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person, information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in or incidental to lawful sanctions.

— Convention Against Torture, Article 1.1

Actions which fall short of torture may still constitute cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment under Article 16.

So here I have Federal officials saying this outfit is illegal and inhumane, and I have a UN Convention which the USA Signed and Ratified....

Yet it's my 'Opinion'? Come again?

They admitted to all sorts of "Mental Torture" techniques. Bragged about em even.

AthlonSavage
reply to post by xuenchen

 

The sherrif reminds me of the Jim jones waco cult figure head who plays God. Does anyone else see this?

Well some people may see that.

But does Joe make them drink cyanide koolaid or shoot the kids first ?

reply to post by muzzleflash


yet all the 'descrepencies' you make note of are 'mental' or 'medical' health... none nutritional - related

being placed on a bread and water 'diet' would take quite some time to become/escalate to anything even close to a 'mental' or 'medical issue/concern' ...

???

while it may sound quite stark and lacking, overall .... ya get enough of either or both and you'll be quite well for Quite some time...


starches. carbs. minerals from the water.


'll do a body good ..... despite and no matter lacking veges and the like.

not 'cruel' or 'unusual' in the least.

reply to post by 12m8keall2c

Actually that isn't quite accurate. After about 6 weeks of a bread and water diet a person will have depleted their vitamin C in their bodies and would begin to suffer from the effects of scurvy.

reply to post by azdaze


true .... but i haven't been able to find anything/anywhere stating the 'duration' of said 'diet' just yet.

still .... arid arizona has plenty of available natural fauna and vegetation to provide those needs as well, if need be.

Scurvy wiki

Scurvy is a disease resulting from a deficiency of vitamin C, which is required for the synthesis of collagen in humans. The chemical name for vitamin C, ascorbic acid, is derived from the Latin name of scurvy, scorbutus, which also provides the adjective scorbutic ("of, characterized by or having to do with scurvy"). Scurvy often presents itself initially as symptoms of malaise and lethargy, followed by formation of spots on the skin, spongy gums, and bleeding from the mucous membranes. Spots are most abundant on the thighs and legs, and a person with the ailment looks pale, feels depressed, and is partially immobilized. As scurvy advances, there can be open, suppurating wounds, loss of teeth, jaundice, fever, neuropathy and death.

Scurvy was at one time common among sailors, pirates and others aboard ships at sea longer than perishable fruits and vegetables could be stored (subsisting instead only on cured and salted meats and dried grains) and by soldiers similarly deprived of these foods for extended periods. It was described by Hippocrates (c. 460 BC–c. 380 BC), and herbal cures for scurvy have been known in many native cultures since prehistory. Scurvy was one of the limiting factors of marine travel, often killing large numbers of the passengers and crew on long-distance voyages[citation needed]. This became a significant issue in Europe from the beginning of the modern era in the Age of Discovery in the 15th century, continuing to play a significant role through World War I in the 20th century.

Additional point:

Scurvy does not occur in most animals because they can synthesize their own vitamin C. However, humans and other higher primates (the simians - monkeys and apes - and tarsiers), guinea pigs, most or all bats, and some species of birds and fish lack an enzyme (L-gulonolactone oxidase) necessary for such synthesis and must obtain vitamin C through their diet.

Link to Vit C in White Bread

Vitamin C in 100g of 'white bread', click a link for different servings.
Bread, white, prepared from recipe, made with low fat (2%) milk - Vitamin C 0.2 mg
Bread, white, commercially prepared, toasted, low sodium no salt - Vitamin C 0 mg
Bread, white, commercially prepared, toasted - Vitamin C 0 mg
Bread, white, commercially prepared, low sodium no salt - Vitamin C 0 mg
Bread, white, commercially prepared (includes soft bread crumbs) - Vitamin C 0 mg
Bread, white, prepared from recipe, made with nonfat dry milk - Vitamin C 0 mg

Read more at www.dietandfitnesstoday.com...

Note that "Commercially prepared" variants come out at zero mg.

I didn't find the charts for wheat bread or other variants, but I'll keep looking.
I assume that the inmates either get white or wheat commercially prepared variants.
If anyone knows specifically please chime in.

The duration is 7 days, according to CNN

Also... It's not White or Wheat... not everyone will appreciate the humor here....but some will. I did some real research and "Bread and Water" in Sheriff Joe's jail (and Cook County, Illinois among others, for what it's worth) is a diet of "Nutraloaf".

Wiki References to NutraLoaf

What someone is looking for on that Wiki page is Citation #11 under References at the bottom and that goes to a court judgement allowing the use of NutraLoaf, specifically referred to as Bread and Water in the Maricopa County Jail system.


What is NutraLoaf? Well... One food critic wasn't kind...

The mushy, disturbingly uniform innards recalled the thick, pulpy aftermath of something you dissected in biology class: so intrinsically disagreeable that my throat nearly closed up reflexively. But the funny thing about Nutraloaf is the taste. It’s not awful, nor is it especially good. I kept trying to detect any individual element—carrot? egg?—and failing. Nutraloaf tastes blank, as though someone physically removed all hints of flavor. “That’s the goal,” says Mike Anderson, Aramark’s district manager. “Not to make it taste bad but to make it taste neutral.” By those standards, Nutraloaf is a culinary triumph; any recipe that renders all 13 of its ingredients completely mute is some kind of miracle.

Source

It meets the standards of intake requirements for life and water to wash it down.

Wrabbit2000
The duration is 7 days, according to CNN

Also... It's not White or Wheat... not everyone will appreciate the humor here....but some will. I did some real research and "Bread and Water" in Sheriff Joe's jail (and Cook County, Illinois among others, for what it's worth) is a diet of "Nutraloaf".

Wiki References to NutraLoaf

What someone is looking for on that Wiki page is Citation #11 under References at the bottom and that goes to a court judgement allowing the use of NutraLoaf, specifically referred to as Bread and Water in the Maricopa County Jail system.


What is NutraLoaf? Well... One food critic wasn't kind...

The mushy, disturbingly uniform innards recalled the thick, pulpy aftermath of something you dissected in biology class: so intrinsically disagreeable that my throat nearly closed up reflexively. But the funny thing about Nutraloaf is the taste. It’s not awful, nor is it especially good. I kept trying to detect any individual element—carrot? egg?—and failing. Nutraloaf tastes blank, as though someone physically removed all hints of flavor. “That’s the goal,” says Mike Anderson, Aramark’s district manager. “Not to make it taste bad but to make it taste neutral.” By those standards, Nutraloaf is a culinary triumph; any recipe that renders all 13 of its ingredients completely mute is some kind of miracle.

Source

It meets the standards of intake requirements for life and water to wash it down.

7 days?? Big whoop... whats the huge controversy?! No scurvy, none of the horror scenarios... just an incentive not to be put on Joes special friends who do stupid crap list and are invited to Joes house.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Thanks for the link I didn't know the bread type being used. That's actually more reasonable.
I never heard of that stuff before thankfully.

That's still sidestepping the torture issue though.
Which is the illegitimate use of an American flag to entrap someone into doing something that isn't illegal, but then punishing them for it.

That's why I said I'd tear it down, because it's entrapment.
They are putting an item into your possession, then if you "do anything to it", you are in trouble?

Explain how this isn't illegitimate.

Having a thread with 3 arguments going on at the same time is difficult, so I can understand if some confusion is going on here.

Oh goody...

Let's feed our inmates nothing but starch and empty carbs (ie: bread) that converts to high glucose sugars (those nasty bad sugars) in the body and then release them back out into the streets. Yee haw !

A steady flow of high glucose in the body eventually leads to a permanent instability of blood sugar imbalances (diabetes, hypoglycemia) which can also lead to hormonal/cortisol/dopamine/seratonin instabilities... which can then lead to mental instabilities.



Obamacare needs more imbalanced blood sugar victims suckers members !!

Weeee !

Arpaio starts every day with "The Star Spangled Banner" and at night plays "God Bless America" over the intercom. A flag is also placed in every cell. If the flag is desecrated, there are consequences.

That right there is torture tactics is it not?

If it is not torture , than what is the "point" of it? Seems to be a waste of taxpayer funding only to harass and upset people for no real logical reasons.

---Psychological operations against prisoners through use of provocative stimuli.