Dr. Jacques Vallee ~ The Control System

Willtell
The battle, my friend, is ultimately raging inside each of us...

Without fear of sounding dogmatic, I can bear witness to that…as a veteran of all kinds of battles

We're all veterans, Will.

reply to post by The GUT


Roaming the internet as a lost soul several years ago, having been raised Christian and just completely alienated and a black sheep, led down the path of modern psychiatry and medications, I stumbled across a life-changing TV series on PBS hosted by Bill Moyers. It was the special he did with the world-renowned comparative mythology researcher Joseph Campbell: The Power of Myth.

It was a revelation to see world religions explained in terms of metaphor as opposed to literal fact. To this day it remains ahead of its time and many people are still not familiar with it. But one does not need to understand the psychological workings of archetypes and metaphorical spiritual messages to be influenced or inspired by them. In fact, Joseph Campbell's work has always been very popular with artists, musicians and story tellers because mythic realities themselves arise out of the human imagination and are always expressed by artists. Throughout all cultures there have been a wide variety of experiences and visions that have been expressed beautifully that have informed and created cultures that have evolved into very powerful religions and institutions.

The problem that has occurred over time is that the original metaphorical message of these religious stories has been lost. The stories have now been misinterpreted as historical facts (the Virgin Birth, the resurrection etc) and our different languages, which actually slowly mutate over time with different peoples evolving in a wide variety of separate locations worldwide, has created this massive fragmentation and misunderstanding on the part of various competing cultures and "their" religious truths. It is quite simply a disaster of monolithic proportions and we can see it taking place all around us throughout the world and throughout our history as bloody and relentless wars. This has not gotten any better, despite the fact we are living in the second decade of the 21st Century...



So the need for a unified global spiritual vision, or guiding archetype, is actually a moral imperative to bring this fragmented mess of a world civilization together. Joseph Campbell stressed the significance of things like the image of Earth from the moon as a catalyst for the world imagination to see ourselves as a united peoples of Earth. I am not a Canadian - I am an Earthling etc. This is part of the transformation. But the UFO archetype is a very rich and poignant archetype for transformation as well, which is why the Swiss psychologist Carl Jung, who deeply inspired Joseph Campbell's work, was so fascinated, and in fact obsessed, with "flying saucers" in his last years. Because of this advancing complexity and fragmentation of humanity, arising from millions of separated egos, we have a wide variety of different points of view and also different sort of mutations of all religious and/or philosophical speculation and ideology - including the UFO myths. That is why it is such a crazy nuthouse trying to make sense of it all!

So, for me, as an artist I just use my own creative expression and intuition to sort of guide me along to make my own understanding. Mythological visions do not need to be absolutely accepted ideologies to work in the minds of people. In fact, George Lucas wrote his epic 'Star Wars' having read and assimilated Joseph Campbell's work 'The Hero with a Thousand Faces', which is a history of mythological archetypes involving the hero's journey and the various hero quests undertaken in mythological stories throughout history. The TV series I mentioned at the beginning, The Power of Myth, was actually filmed on location at Lucas Films on George Lucas' ranch. Bill Moyers explained to Joseph Campbell how people watching Star Wars in the theatre broke into amazement and cheering when Obi Won Kanobi told Luke Skywalker to "use the force". Joseph Campbell smiled and stated that this is a valid mythology for our global culture, and I do not need to tell you how many people have devoted their lives to Star Wars. Many of my best friends spend all their spare money on collecting Star Wars items and make their way to the conventions. It has become a religious reality for them.

But as for uniting all of humanity and the global economy to launch a new paradigm and way of living with new technologies etc and so on - that is, apparently, such a complicated question that these covert operations have been struggling against each other for almost 60 years to find a way to "announce" it to the public. How does one do this? Especially when certain plans are outed, so to speak, and the organizations themselves are fighting amongst themselves. I suspect that there is more going on at the top levels of this cover-up that have got to do with migrating into space. One need just refamiliarize themselves with the stories of Arthur C. Clarke, 2001: A Space Odyssey and Childhood's End, to get more perspective on that. Let alone the testimonies of people like Sgt. Karl Wolf who stumbled onto the NASA lunar orbiter mission in the 1960s that discovered a base on the dark side of the moon...

reply to post by The GUT


I believe that GUT. People here are seasoned.
Folks on this thread are very astute and level headed even though this topic is extraordinarily esoteric on its own level.

It’s actually all a round about way of dealing indirectly with metaphysics, whether we know it or not.

That’s why a guy like Vallee, a true open minded renaissance guy, I think you were inferring earlier, is so much more attractive than Mr. Stanton, though I don’t mean to demean Stanton in anyway.

Indeed, Vallee does inspire and makes us think.

Now that we may be getting to the soul of the matter and some of us almost ready for the confessional, I will express a little some of my (though very little, still) ideas about these aliens, and express a little to us how I deal.

I look at the very term ALIEN, first.

The Arabic word ALI is the prefix. It means MOST HIGH

The other part of the word infers out of the well known YIN YANG
YIN
ALIYIN=

Most high Feminine energy.

You know what is precisely interesting above all in this is the anonymity of the so called aliens

It’s as if they are a part of the walls or the air around us so can't really speak openly about what they are really doing.

Has anyone her ever heard from the walls or the air?

The GUT
reply to post by 1ofthe9

 

Woah! Just ordered it. Sheesh...am I in for a mind-effing or what? Sounds like a RAW (Robert Anton Wilson) head trip!

Yep. Jack Sarfatti, Pulharich's Space Kids, Project MONARCH, Vallee... Just about everything the folks here have talked about pops up in the book. Even the Process Church!

reply to post by Willtell

Folks on this thread are very astute and level headed even though this topic is extraordinarily esoteric on its own level.

I completely disagree. I have NO idea what anyone is talking about whatsoever. I am not even going to pretend. Maybe Im dumb? But that cant be it since I have a job that requires me to not be dumb. maybe I cant think creatively? I don't really know. All I know is that posting montey python clips makes me somewhat on topic. I think?

reply to post by lostgirl


Archive.org is a wondrous and beautiful site. To think, they have The Way Back Machine that crawls the web and takes snapshots of entire websites to archive. So if you know of any dead links from old websites, just punch it in on archive.org and you can find old entries for most sites. Not all of the media items, but all of the text for sure...

As for the multimedia on Archive, they have a new display for ebooks that is above and beyond Google Books and most ebook programs. I just love it! I think it will be there for quite some time, but the archive.org software automatically converts multimedia items into multiple formats and one can easily download whichever one they want. I always download copies, so I would grab a PDF.

I actually screencaptured the entire Google Book version and converted it into a PDF some years ago.

ZetaRediculian
...Maybe Im dumb? But that cant be it since I have a job that requires me to not be dumb. maybe I cant think creatively? I don't really know. All I know is that posting montey python clips makes me somewhat on topic. I think?

How rich--for me anyway--this discussion is turning out to be. I've starred the heck out of all these posts. The diplomacy and heartfelt honesty is compelling. It is indeed (I think, I hope) becoming a "confessional" as Will pointed out. Much respect to those that are making it so.

Zeta: Here's my personal opinion on "intellect." Intellect is certainly valuable. There's loads of the above-average sort here in my estimation. However, intellect may be more a tool and not necessarily a destination that infers any sort of true superiority or guarantee of ultimate truth. I believe "wisdom" is the key, with intellect a supporting actor---if used as correctly as we can manage. Not that I have much...but I aspire to (Wisdom that is.) I've been appreciating your presence. Stick around...you might appreciate ours, too.

Bruce Lee's epitaph came from his own writing (a letter if memory serves):

"IN MEMORY OF A ONCE FLUID MAN CRAMMED AND DISTORTED BY THE CLASSICAL MESS"

Intellect can tie us in knots, wisdom never depreciates or lies.

reply to post by The GUT

Bruce Lee's epitaph came from his own writing (a letter if memory serves):

"IN MEMORY OF A ONCE FLUID MAN CRAMMED AND DISTORTED BY THE CLASSICAL MESS"

The same Bruce Lee here?

ZetaRediculian
The same Bruce Lee here?

See what he meant by "...crammed and distorted by the classical mess?"

That gig (and being shunned for the Kung Fu series) humiliated him so much, he decided to follow his own wisdom and do it his way...and look what happened. I may be prejudiced though: My avatar is Chinese and my children are mixed.

reply to post by ZetaRediculian


See if this response makes any sense for you:

Excerpt from 'The Network Revolution' by Jacques Vallee

You cannot "retrieve" information from a computer for the simple reason that you cannot store information in a computer in the first place! All you can ever store in a computer is DATA, and the relationship between data and information is a fundamental mystery. Data turns into information through a process no scientist has bothered to describe, because it is much too complicated and beyond formulation with the tools we have. The transformation works for a given person at a given time, with the obvious result that what is information for Mr. Jones on a particular day is not information to anyone else, and may not even be information to Mr. Jones the following Tuesday.

If you aren't particularly enamored with any of this, beer, rock n roll and Monty Python shows does sound like an attractive alternative! It is Friday night, after all...

reply to post by corsair00


Sounds like Sophistry to me. Vallee trying to be complex when it doesn't fit.

reply to post by ZetaRediculian


It’s the psychology of forums that is coming into play…weariness with a topic where it becomes challenging to stay stimulating

corsair00
reply to post by ZetaRediculian

 

See if this response makes any sense for you:

Excerpt from 'The Network Revolution' by Jacques Vallee

You cannot "retrieve" information from a computer for the simple reason that you cannot store information in a computer in the first place! All you can ever store in a computer is DATA, and the relationship between data and information is a fundamental mystery. Data turns into information through a process no scientist has bothered to describe, because it is much too complicated and beyond formulation with the tools we have. The transformation works for a given person at a given time, with the obvious result that what is information for Mr. Jones on a particular day is not information to anyone else, and may not even be information to Mr. Jones the following Tuesday.

If you aren't particularly enamored with any of this, beer, rock n roll and Monty Python shows does sound like an attractive alternative! It is Friday night, after all...

Certainly ties in with his interest in the physics of information...

reply to post by Willtell


That's very interesting! The Most High Feminine Energy. Well, taken together with my above post about the transformation of Earth and humanity, it reminds me of Terence McKenna's take on what he called "the Gaian mind":

Earth is a coherent whole: it is a thinking, feeling, intending, being – that in terms of our value structures, it would be foolish to image as anything other than female.

It was my own coming of age experience out in the country on the side of a lake on a beautiful summer's night, the kind where you can see every single star and the Milky Way, when I witnessed what looked like a UFO but later I had assumed it was the rare astronomical event of one of the massive meteorite impacts of Jupiter on July 19th 1995. That same summer the movie 'Fire in the Sky' came out, and between the fascinating light I saw, my age and the allure of the subject, I became fixated on UFOs and the paranormal.

What comes across as mental illness and a general "waste of time" to most people, for me, has been very fascinating research with far-reaching implications for the destiny of mankind, IMHO.

reply to post by corsair00


Great Post! McKenna's was a wise fellow.

Well…( years ago)I was an ordinary young hoodlum; I was working the grave yard shift at a college when everybody in the world was sleep and it was so quiet I went to a dark lonely room to light up a joint…and there
I accidentally witnessed an awesome sunrise!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

For the first time in my life I actually said to God out loud in that lonely attic:
You are a bad MF! I made some kind of crazy vow I wont go into

I think she heard me
For ever since I’ve been drunk

Of course I have a memory of seeing a Wheel in the Sky one day but it is a memory to this day I can't really say I remember it…
Figure that out.

Willtell
It’s the psychology of forums that is coming into play…weariness with a topic where it becomes challenging to stay stimulating

I definitely know what you mean.

I do have a counter to that, though. I'll use greco wrestling (as opposed to the WWE or some such) as metaphor. In high school, collegiate, or olympic wrestling, the ref has to judge the starting positions of the grapplers as they seek to get the best "legitimate purchase" they can in a few different starting positions. It's rather boring for the audience who are waiting for "action" (though much more frustrating for the wrestlers heheh.)

Finally--when it's judged as correct or a fair start--the match can begin. When we, as philosophical grapplers, are talking about some of the deepest questions we can ask, it's somewhat the same---ground basis must be established. Sometimes, admittedly, it never happens in this arena or "forum." Hopefully, in this case, it's about to happen.

reply to post by corsair00

If you aren't particularly enamored with any of this, beer, rock n roll and Monty Python shows does sound like an attractive alternative! It is Friday night, after all...

Well, I am taking a break from my robot. I recently downloaded babelnet and converted it to a sql database. 4 million rows of Wikipedia data nice and organized pumped to my phone using voice recognition. I am going to call it the AMA app. that's me. all nerdy and stuff www.babelnet.org...

It is absolutely useless! Its data sure. but what does my phone my sql server and my application that runs on my laptop to interface the 2 know? Nothing. it is as dumb as a doorstop. there is no awareness. It doesn't understand who I am or what it is. Its a pointless mess. It would be much more interesting if it could understand something. Just one thing. It has no idea how words fit together and form concepts. I also integrated a chatterbot alice.pandorabots.com... into it so It can hold a conversation with you. But that's just a bunch of xml files. Someone spent a lot of time putting together a lot of question and answers. Its amusing. after a little bit its kind of boring.

How do you form a simple concept? How can you program learning? Yes, machine learning. Math algorithm. big deal. I feed it garbage, it doesn't say "hey that's garbage!". It just adds it up.

So we have concepts, ideas. Objects. Objects have Properties. Objects have relationships to other objects. When we know something, what does that mean? Its relationships. Its continuity.

My dog chases a ball. it goes under the couch. dog goes to other side of couch to see if ball is there. That is amazing. My robot can chase a ball too! ball goes under couch. done. Ok I suck at programming. I guess I can come up with away for it to go to the other side of the couch. But that seems pointless. A long "if then" statement? maybe? But my dog doesn't "think" like that. It just "knows" where the ball should end up. why cant my robot just know how to do this? The best I can do is program it to look like it knows. What a waste of time!

where's my porn and tequila?

reply to post by The GUT

ground basis must be established

Definitions of words. In the quote above, there is a distinction made between "data" and "information". Well, most of us don't make that distinction. Since the distinction was made, I used that distinction. How can there be an exchange of knowledge without understanding how a word is specifically defined by the two "entities". Protocol. That's how computers exchange data. Around here, you cant just assume people know the meaning of basic words or even what you just typed. actual exchange of information is impossible.

Old documentary on Soviet 'psychotronics'. Could Kit Green be the guy with the changed voice and hidden face? Bonus footage of the LIDA machine. :p