As to the first sentence in your reply 'box' below...
...When I wrote, "Maybe Persinger just never thought of trying to 'intend' an experience?"
It was a direct reply to your question....
"if one could have an "experience" just by "intending to have an experience", then why would Persinger have to build a God helmet?"
.....and my use of the word "intend" was meant as a direct inference to the first part of your sentence re: 'having an experience by means of
So, I was saying, maybe he 'had' "to build a God helmet", because (and this just the first of possible 'reasons' I listed) he hadn't ever
considered 'trying' to utilize 'intention' to have an experience.
(I've really gotta do a better job of putting my thinking into words, because I am just not getting across...)
(Really sorry, but can't work out how to intersperse individual quotes, so my replies follow the order of your 'points' above...)
reply to post by lostgirl
Then why did he build a device specifically intended to stimulate the temporal lobes if he was not intending for himself and others to experience what
those with very labile temporal lobes experience?
Crowley intended for "belief" to be used by the magician as though it were a piece of laboratory equipment. This "choose your belief" thing that
you keep talking about? How long do you suppose that has been a feature of human society, "choosing one's belief's?"
Which do you think has been around longer as a driving feature of human societies? People undergoing catastrophic religious conversion due to temporal
lobe epilepsy, or this feature of being able to "choose one's belief's" by which I take you to mean choosing the spiritual or religious paradigm
under which one operates.
The reason that I brought up 777 and The Book of Thoth is that Crowley was obviously trying to get somewhere specific, in most cases culturally
and philosophically specific. His hypothesis seems to have been "we can get there from here if we have a map".
I have been as careful as I am able to when it comes to not suggesting that there is anything wrong with anyone at whatever depth they
experience their temporal lobes and the rest of the system they are connected to.
That's why I have stated that I don't think there is anything super-natural at work here and that it is all entirely natural as far as the
True Control System is concerned.
No one has anything wrong with their brains, nor is there any glitch involved.
I don't think I have ever used terms like "choosing one's beliefs" or "choose one's beliefs" -
- what I have said is that if attempting to affect the 'Vallee' Control System, it would be necessary to 'choose belief' (choose 'to' believe),
because (and a few on the thread have agreed) I think that belief is one component in any type of 'process' one might develop for the purpose of an
attempt at affecting such a Control System as Vallee 'subscribes' to...
And in point of fact, my thinking here directly agrees with what you were writing about Crowley, et al - in the sense of my hypothesizing that anyone
who planned to attempt doing 'work' utilizing Crowley's "map" as you put it, would have to 'believe' in that work, and such 'belief' must be
(to one degree or another) a 'choice', depending on how thoroughly one has been 'programmed' (by parents/society) against any possibility that
magic could exist...
None of my comments on belief ever had anything to do with (to quote you), "choosing the spiritual or religious paradigm under which one
And I never said anything to indicate (regardless the cause, of temporal lobe 'experiences') that anyone "has anything wrong with their
brains"...the term "glitch" was intended to be an abbreviated way of referring to 'whatever causes such temporal lobe experiences'...
....Heck, I use the term 'glitch' to describe whatever it is (likely genetic) in my own brain which has inflicted me with life-long Major Depressive
Disorder (the kind of depression wherein all the psychological testing shows the patient to have no mental health pathologies).
I also never said that there was anything 'un'natural in anyone having such temporal lobe experiences...
The word 'supernatural' does not in any way mean 'un'natural...it refers to phenomena that is 'other' then the 'commonly understood'
definition of "natural" (I guess I shouldn't have assumed that people who haven't read C.S. Lewis's book "Miracles" would be able to make the
At this point I offer genuine apologies for using up so much 'thread space' trying to explain myself...I just really hate being misunderstood...
And please forgive me but - frankly, I'm a bit hurt that people either had not been reading or not bothered 'retaining' any of my earlier writings
in the thread, because if they had, they would know what I'm talking about in the way I've used certain terminology...
...and being aware of my wide open mindedness, might have taken some effort to attempt to 'read between the lines' in willingness to fully
understand the 'intent' behind the terminology...