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Dr. Jacques Vallee ~ The Control System

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posted on Feb, 1 2014 @ 02:12 PM
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KellyPrettyBear

How fascinating.


Indeed! Perhaps that would be worthy of a brand new thread.


On a related note, Persinger got scared silly by me apparently
and dropped our emial conversaton on the second round of
discussion. Or he thought I was a loser. Maybe both. Who knows?


Well, hopefully he just needs more time.





posted on Feb, 1 2014 @ 02:24 PM
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reply to post by BlueMule
 


As far as KPB scaring people like Persinger, heh, perhaps he (not to speak like KPB isn't reading this, sorry Kevin) should study old-fashioned human standards of behavior a-la Emily Post, heh, and de-liminal-isze a tad to engage someone who isn't used to the Trickster/teaching personae?

The comment made earlier about hitting KPB upside the head with, or sitting upon, the stool is relevant. The manic, "did-too-much coke and regurgitating upon the keyboard" enthusiasm doesn't bother me, but I'm weird.

Just a grounding suggestion for Kevin, not to "shut up," (not at ALL!) but take the time to relate to strangers who don't know that there is 'gold in them thar brains.'

Edit: Not that KPB doesn't know he's (you are) abrasive, he (you) states it all the time... but maybe I mean less "shorthand preaching to choir" and more "let me shake your hand, scared ape, and prove I'm not dangerously insane"- just taking the precious time to give the other person the equally precious time to relax and think, is what I mean.
edit on 2/1/2014 by Baddogma because: (no reason given)

edit on 2/1/2014 by Baddogma because: clarify hurried typing

edit on 2/1/2014 by Baddogma because: last clear up of type-o... even if I find more... sigh



posted on Feb, 1 2014 @ 02:37 PM
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reply to post by Baddogma
 


Naw I get you brother.

I spent 52 years living in 'otherworld' more than 'this world'.

I'ts going to take me time to learn how to become an effective
teacher, if that is indeed what my path becomes.

Unlike most lunatic people who have been 'to the other shore'
I don't feel it's my job to teach the world. Or necessarily to
interact with the world in any visible way at all.. people who
get sucked into that sort of thinking are sucked back into
the control mechanism again.

I might just hang with a few close friends.. and leave ATS..
someday.. I don't need to express myself in this way to
define myself...

Just FYI, brother, you can give me hell all you want.. advise
me all you want.. I need to learn from 'seekers' how they
want me to address them.. or if they don't want me to
address them, I can just go away.. it's all the same to me.

As long as I have a couple good friends in the world.. some
animal friends.. some spirit friends.. and a good lover,
then I'm a rich man and could want for nothing..

Thanks.

Kevin



posted on Feb, 1 2014 @ 02:45 PM
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reply to www.abovetopsecret.com..." target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow">post by Baddogma
 


Insightful.

But you see...

and this excites me so much I could jump up and down...

The way of the shaman.. the way of the liminal... being in
the void and howling at the moon..

it's not enough.

You need one element from the way of the magician to
become stable.

You need the tool of accepting lies as truth..

What you say is the shaman needing belief is not true..

Nope.

But you are very close.

As a TOOL I believe various things.. that my intuition tells
me to believe for a while.. I focus my intent through those
purposefully believed lies..

to cause effects due to intention (properly used will)

then I learn something..

which causes me to discard those initially adopted false
beliefs..

then the intent.. then the learning.. then the discarding..

it's an endless cycle..

It's how you clothe yourself in the void.. so you don't
go mad..

but you discard as fast as you don.

It's really what all spiritual seekers do in spurts.. while
denying that they do it.. but the shaman/trickster/magician
does it consciously and constantly.. as a purposeful TOOL
rather than beat themselves up about it.. like most spiritual
people do.. they consider this process 'doubt' or 'lack of faith'
or 'weakness'. But when done consciously.. it's raw power.

so you stay free.. you stay sane.. and you keep
growing.

I hope that was helpful.

My 2 cents.

Kevin



posted on Feb, 1 2014 @ 02:49 PM
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reply to post by KellyPrettyBear
 


Yup... but being petulant and thinking about disengaging ain't the direction to go, either, boy-yo. And while I'm doling out too-obvious, probably already id'd and noted "constructive" criticism, heh, I clarified what was bothering me about your world-view.

And that is that it's shaded by your own (negative) human experience/framework too much. Basically noted by the difference inherent in the terms "parasite" vs. "symbiote."

I like to think that the universe is more a 'friendly-makes sense at the Omega point where we re-join some godhead' place than a 'cold, Darwinian hands-off laze-faire' place. Not to say our current world isn't a 'dingo-eat-baby' setting, but I lean more 'empowered, optimistic' and that could be wrong, but both sides are colored by separate experiences and thus the reality might be different.



posted on Feb, 1 2014 @ 02:52 PM
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reply to post by Baddogma
 


You are on a roll today!

Yes, of course you are right.

All the abuse I've taken (and given back to a small degree)
has colored me. But I think I'm getting healed of that.

I'm doing a lot of healing recently.. and the people are so
grateful and loving to me.. that I don't feel nearly so
negative towards humans.

I heal them.
They heal me.

maybe that's what the dynamic should be between us
and the tricksters. I think so!

Damn, I'm getting a rush typing this.

Kevin



posted on Feb, 1 2014 @ 03:03 PM
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reply to post by KellyPrettyBear
 


Of course I'm right... in this case, anyhoo.

If you've "wasted" as much time as I have reading esoteric works you'd find your Shamanic findings (heh, my wording cracks me up sometimes... excuse me) are echoed far and wide through the ages... namely, that yuppers, we are "infested" or "blessed" with another intelligence that wasn't part of our original make-up and that explains the difference in our awareness from the other lifeforms eating, playing, pooping and screwing upon this dirtball.

I haven't had the experiential proof of such, though I've been made aware of other bodiless intelligences and have had some minor dimensional travels due to chemicals. But I acknowledge and trust that others have. But treating them like "parasites" will make them act like "parasites." The world is our mirror, after all.

Edit: and if you haven't read John Lilly, the dolphin/isolation tank guy, you might want to- as far as interesting and more optimistic experiential Shamanistic scientific exploration goes...
edit on 2/1/2014 by Baddogma because: (no reason given)


Edit: I feel like we're teenagers using a deserted mansion to get high and fool around while the parents are away... I hope GUT is well. I love that guy.
edit on 2/1/2014 by Baddogma because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 1 2014 @ 03:20 PM
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reply to post by Baddogma
 


The difference between reading and creating the wheel from
scratch is mind-blowing.

I've avoided reading most of the stuff out there for most of
my life.. here and there I got sucked into one path or another
for a period of time.. but they were all 'wrong'. For example
kundalini yoga --- a huge death trap.. yet.. without elements
of it.. i wouldn't be where I am today..

I've discarded something like 80% of that path.. and replaced
it with things I've seen and experienced directly.

People always get after me to study, study, study the corrupted
writings of the world.. and I've always refused.. and that's the
only reason I've succeeded where possibly millions have failed.

There is no actual time savings by following someone elses
system. NONE.

A good teacher will instruct you on how to create your own
system... for yourself only.. that works for you only..

I've never met a good teacher myself. Now I only want the
'world' to be my teacher... and learning never stops.. until
life ends.. even for the Buddha if he were here..

so nice chatting with you today.. you are a treasure.

Kevin



posted on Feb, 1 2014 @ 03:34 PM
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reply to post by KellyPrettyBear
 


Eh, Lilly as entertainment first, and teaching info, second. Once one's brain operating system is stripped down and built back up on your own terms, others' views only help tweaking little things about the macro brain program.

And it's always lovely to engage with someone close to your own outlook... the challenge is engaging with those far, far away from one's world-view... but that aside, nice chatting with you, too. Manly hugs and awkward cheek kissing.



posted on Feb, 1 2014 @ 03:40 PM
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I like what was said about Buddha being a trickster of sorts.

When there is no good and evil, no right or wrong, because all these things are a matter of subjective perspective, what is left in that arena? Love and hate.

And for all of our evolving, where do we steer the human ship voyaging through the ocean?

There is no 'anything' as it should be or shouldn't be, there is only the arising of casual phenomena, and an endless string of it.

So what does a Buddha do? Tricks you... tricks you into turning from an sense seeking animal into a thoughtful loving entity. Oh what a great voyage that would be for our collective.

I have gotten tired of words as of late, words are so empty, and yet one of our favorite past times is discussing. What I say, will never be interpreted by you quite as it is meant, and vice versa. There are error correcting codes called beliefs that assimilate what is said into a cohesive narrative for the individual.

The trickster is only a necessary process of evolution, and in a way, so are the aliens. They play their part, we play ours. Its all part of the whole, and that too is endless.

'God' sits in the center, and god is such an archaic term, so dont think I mean it in the way that most of the world does, but saying YOU sit at the center also does not get the point across too well. The awareness of all beings above and below, within and without sits at the center.

Release is moving up the pointed end of your existence into the center. It is moving away from conforming limited creation, into boundless unending creativity.

Buddha is just an image after all, just a word, just a man. What is never spoken about, can never be spoken about, lies at the center. Words are just the light circling the black hole trying not to fall into it into their destruction.



posted on Feb, 1 2014 @ 03:41 PM
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reply to post by KellyPrettyBear
 


I think it's great that you've reconnected with your 'mystic physicist' friend. Even if it doesn't lead to contact with Jacque Vallee, a rekindling of such a friendship would be so rewarding for you both, I hope it happens!



posted on Feb, 1 2014 @ 03:43 PM
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hehe... the world is an excellent teacher, it does not care what you do with what it throws at you.

It takes a pretty good student to understand that though...



posted on Feb, 1 2014 @ 03:48 PM
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Baddogma
reply to post by KellyPrettyBear
 


Eh, Lilly as entertainment first, and teaching info, second. Once one's brain operating system is stripped down and built back up on your own terms, others' views only help tweaking little things about the macro brain program.


Another point about reading other people's "teaching info" is this:

I have found that reading other's (wrong for me personally) truths has often times greatly aided me in defining/refining the truths which are personally 'right' for me...

Actually, I guess I've just reiterated what you said...well, you made such a good point, it deserves repeating!

edit on 1-2-2014 by lostgirl because: addendum



posted on Feb, 1 2014 @ 03:53 PM
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reply to post by lostgirl
 


mirrors are excellent arent they?

not only can they be fun to interact with but they can be insightful too!

but how does a mirror have a conversation with itself? is it the mirror conversing or the reflected? Is there a man in the mirror as there is without? Or is it a trick of the light which makes you think anything exists other than the mirror at all?

ever hold another mirror up to a mirror? so what is a reflection of a reflection separated by time and space? The fun is in the angles of reflection, the play.
edit on 1-2-2014 by preludefanguy because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 1 2014 @ 04:03 PM
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preludefanguy
reply to post by lostgirl
 


mirrors are excellent arent they?

not only can they be fun to interact with but they can be insightful too!

but how does a mirror have a conversation with itself? is it the mirror conversing or the reflected? Is there a man in the mirror as there is without? Or is it a trick of the light which makes you think anything exists other than the mirror at all?

ever hold another mirror up to a mirror? so what is a reflection of a reflection separated by time and space? The fun is in the angles of reflection, the play.
edit on 1-2-2014 by preludefanguy because: (no reason given)

The mirror itself is an illusion, both sides are 'real' and if they would only reach out to 'touch' each other, they could feel the warmth of each other's loving regard...

I don't think it's possible to "hold" a mirror to a mirror and be 'in' the mirrors at the same time...but I get your point



posted on Feb, 1 2014 @ 04:12 PM
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reply to post by lostgirl
 




do you...?

'you' can definitely be in the mirror, and the mirrors mirror, and automatically thrust into the endless strings of reflections created from such a fold in origami space-time awareness

dont think about it too much though, its automatic, and thinking just drags the process down
edit on 1-2-2014 by preludefanguy because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 1 2014 @ 04:13 PM
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reply to post by preludefanguy
 


Nice words about the buddha being a trickster.
That little concept is worth an entire lifetime to learn.




Words are just the light circling the black hole trying not to fall into it into their destruction.


Well that's the thing. That's why most people fail for so long.
They never dive in.
What they don't know.. is that yes you can dive in.. and in
fact you MUST dive in.. but then here's the kicker..

you can leap out again any time you want.. dive in again any
time you want..

Really the 'void' is a concept to be used and discarded too..

We are not emptiness.
We are not fullness.
We are not even the tension between the two, although that is close.
We are an expression of the 2 poles of reality constantly making forms
and destroying them.. and it's allowed for us to learn how to do this too...
to be co-creators as they say.. until we are destroyed..but we will rise
up again.. it's endless..

we even accidentally or otherwise lead other beings to life.. and they
also learn to be trickster/shaman/magicians.. and the cycle continues.

To 'leap out' all you have to do is believe a lie.. any lie.. believe anything
and work with that lie as though it's true.. that's all you have to do..

When you are comfortable doing this.. you are a full-fledged trickster/
shaman/magician.. a full conscious citizen.

That doesn't mean you suddenly have super powers.. but if they are
possible in the world you are a part of.. it should be possible for them
to be expressed eventually.. unless it goes against the 'tide'.. the 'tide'
of reality as a whole.. (call that 'god' if you wish). We can never override
the entire tide.

Kevin



posted on Feb, 1 2014 @ 04:19 PM
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reply to post by lostgirl
 


Great point.

yes.. nothing firms up your own connection to the 'source'
better than to consider other's points of view, then to either
explain why their point is wrong.. or realize that your own
point needs some work.

It's hard for most people (including me sometimes) to let
others words touch me when they should.. this is the one
thing that all truth seekers need to learn.

Nobody said truth seeking was easy!

Kevin



posted on Feb, 1 2014 @ 04:22 PM
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reply to post by lostgirl
 


Oh just rekindling his friendship is worth a lot to me..
A world class scientist who doesn't mock me like some
do? Pure gold.

He's also suffering from an incurable ailment.. a really nasty one. I'm hoping
that as some sort of graduation present, that someday i'll be the channel to cure him.

I don't have any local friends at all you know.. other than some work friends who don't
know my 'other side'. Would mean a lot to me.

Kevin



posted on Feb, 1 2014 @ 04:31 PM
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KellyPrettyBear
but we will rise
up again.. it's endless..


That reminded me of a song which I hereby share with you bro.






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