It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Dr. Jacques Vallee ~ The Control System

page: 43
154
<< 40  41  42    44  45  46 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Feb, 1 2014 @ 09:30 AM
link   
reply to post by nugget1
 


You are 100% right.

That's what 'he' does in my experience.

It's all just a giant reality television network with one viewer.

Horror channel.. paradise channel.. it's all the same to the one.

and no reason to intrude.. as all the characters are already
him to begin with.

Kevin




posted on Feb, 1 2014 @ 09:32 AM
link   
reply to post by Willtell
 





So is rain good or evil?


Nothing is good or evil..

those are just selfish and self-centered concepts held
by limited and temporary beings.

Kevin



posted on Feb, 1 2014 @ 09:36 AM
link   
reply to post by Willtell
 


putting things in terms of 'good and evil' is the control loop in
action. Just stopping doing that would go far in freeing the
entire human race from negative control loops

My theory says that there are 3 levels of the control loop to
discuss:

1) The trickster / sons and daughters of god playing / play fighting.

2) The human energy system has evolved symbiotically with tricksters
so it has it's own crabby lower awareness that materializes things..
and actually.. functions as the MAIN control loop. (sometimes
'aliens' possess these materializations).

3) The gubmint and other sorcerers who try to mind control the population
in order to attempt control of the other 2 loops.

Kevin


edit on 1-2-2014 by KellyPrettyBear because: (no reason given)



posted on Feb, 1 2014 @ 09:38 AM
link   
I can also devise, from the aliens are demons perspective, a viable credible scenario there also.

That’s what I do, I am not a dogmatic believer in anything that isn’t apparent as of yet, I merely offer the most likely and intelligence possibilities from any prospective, which can include:

The aliens as angels or good guys

The aliens as evil or bad guys

Or somewhere in between

The aliens as ID beings

The aliens as reptiles

Aliens as saviors

Aliens are us in the future
Etc…

Steve Greer thinks the aliens are all good and Carla Tucker thought otherwise; that they may be demonic.

I could postulate on any possibility. Of course we should and do have disagreements and debate though I think it’s ridiculous for people to argue vehemently over something where various possibilities exist and we just DON’T KNOW FOR SURE WHAT THE DEAL IS.



posted on Feb, 1 2014 @ 09:40 AM
link   
reply to post by Willtell
 





I could postulate on any possibility. Of course we should and do have disagreements and debate though I think it’s ridiculous for people to argue vehemently over something where various possibilities exist and we just DON’T KNOW FOR SURE WHAT THE DEAL IS.


Yes! lets keep that in mind! good observation.



posted on Feb, 1 2014 @ 10:55 AM
link   


no thing completely good or completely evil

and



Good and evil is just plain perspective.


IF good=positive energy, and bad= negative energy, AND only positive energy can enter the kingdom of the Creator, then all the doctrine to 'be good' handed down through the ages might ( in modern terms the ancients didn't have the knowledge to understand) have been trying to get people to shift their energy to positive.



since no two humans agree on the subject of god, bringing god into any subject just turns it into chaos


Your description of Mr. Trickster sounds no different than others description of God. Instead of saying 'Trickster' or 'God' we could just say 'Pure energy' or 'corrupt energy' if it would make you more receptive to considering ideas other than your own.



" Everything seems to point to beings coming from heaven, mating with the daughters of men, then history stops..." That's just one narrow mythology.. it's very far from universal.. oh I don't know.. maybe 25% presence in mythology?

With the limited knowledge of that time period, couldn't this be a way to describe genetic manipulation? Could Mary have been artificially inseminated? Would we benefit from translating myths by applying our advanced knowledge to them?



I really don't think that we can assume that physical aliens ever 'mated' wtih humans in the conventional way. There is certainly zero dna evidence of that.

There has been a bit of controversy on whether or not our DNA was manipulated in the distant past. A closed mind can't learn.



Maybe it's just semantics here.. maybe the 'annunaki way' of describing this is just a flowery anthropomorphizaton of the things others say.

So may be the 'Trickster' way.



I think that is a key realization that we must agree upon, to make a good theory.


I'm not here to 'find' a theory, nor to agree with anybody. I'm searching for my point of origin.



Nothing is good or evil.. those are just selfish and self-centered concepts held by limited and temporary beings.


Maybe you're right. Maybe it boils down to +/- energy making the world go 'round. Maybe it takes a balanced energy to manifest a human body. Too much positive, and you sit at the feet of the Purest energy, never to manifest again. Maybe too much negative, and you can't manifest a body...your conscious has all the same desires, but no body to fulfill them.....what torture! Or, as ancients might describe it ....hell.



putting things in terms of 'good and evil' is the control loop in action.


So, would it make you more comfortable to call it +/- energy?
You seem to want us all to acknowledge your 'Trickster" as some sort of kingpin. I think your focus may have narrowed your vision a bit.



You are 100% right.


I don't like it when you agree with me, KPB. It makes me feel as if I'm way off track!

edit on 60000001010America/Chicago281 by nugget1 because: Correct spelling



posted on Feb, 1 2014 @ 11:05 AM
link   
Interesting turn here in the past page or two in bringing in the creator. I am also interested in the topic of how many layers the control system has or how many areas it influences our existence. In the Electromagnetism, UFOs, and the Weaponization of Alien Technology thread, I linked a paper discussing the phenomena and how it affects us as a society and the conclusion it reached was that there are 6 layers in action with these incidences:


The 6 Levels of UAP Analysis

Let us consider the characteristics of the sightings that are not explained by trivial natural causes. We can recognize 6 major “layers” in terms of our perceptions of these characteristics, as they can be extracted from earlier works about UAP phenomenology (Vallee, 1975a, 1975b) or from the current NIDS database.

Layer I: First of all is the physical layer, evident in most witness accounts describing an object that:

▪ occupies a position in space, consistent with geometry
▪ moves as time passes
▪ interacts with the environment through thermal effects
▪ exhibits light absorption and emission from which power output estimates can be derived
▪ produces turbulence
▪ when landed, leaves indentations and burns from which mass and energy figures can be derived
▪ gives rise to photographic images
▪ leaves material residue consistent with Earth chemistry
▪ gives rise to electric, magnetic and gravitational disturbances

Thus UAP -- in a basic physical sense -- are consistent with a technology centered on a craft that appears to be using a revolutionary propulsion system. It is the existence of this layer that has led mainstream ufologists to claim that UFOs and elated phenomena were due to extraterrestrial machines.

Layer II: For lack of an adequate term, we will call the second layer anti-physical. The variables are the same as those in the previous category, but they form patterns that conflict with those predicted by modern physics. Objects are described as physical and material but they are also described as:

▪ sinking into the ground
▪ shrinking in size, growing larger, or changing shape on the spot
▪ becoming fuzzy and transparent on the spot dividing into 2-or-more objects, several of them merging into one object at slow speed
▪ disappearing at one point and appearing elsewhere instantaneously
▪ remaining observable visually while not detected by radar
▪ producing missing time or time dilatation
▪ producing topological inversion or space dilatation (object was estimated to be of small exterior size/volume, but witness(s) saw a huge interior many times the exterior size)
▪ appearing as balls of colored, intensely bright light under intelligent control

It is the presence of such descriptions that leads most academic scientists to reject the phenomenon as the product of hallucinations or hoaxes.

Layer III: The third layer has to do with the psychology of the witnesses and the social conditions that surround them. Human observers tend to see UAP while in their normal environment and in normal social groupings. They perceive the objects as non-conventional, but they try to explain them away as common occurrences until faced with the inescapable conclusion that the object is truly unknown.

Layer IV: Physiological reactions are another significant level of information. The phenomenon is reported to cause effects perceived by humans as:

▪ sounds (beeping, buzzing, humming, sharp/piercing whistling, swooshing/air rushing, loud/deafening roaring, sound of a storm, etc.)
▪ vibrations
▪ burns
▪ partial paralysis (inability to move muscles)
▪ extreme heat or cold sensation
▪ odors (powerful, sweet or strange fragrance, rotten eggs, sulphurous, pungent, musky, etc.)
▪ metallic taste
▪ pricklings
▪ temporary blindness when directly exposed to the objects’ light
▪ nausea
▪ bloody nose and/or ears; severe .ache
▪ difficulty in breathing
▪ loss of volition
▪ severe drowsiness in the days following a close encounter

Layer V: The fifth category of effects can only be labeled psychic because it involves a class of phenomena commonly found in the literature of parapsychology, such as:

▪ impressions of communication without a direct sensory channel
▪ poltergeist phenomena: motions and sounds without a specific cause, outside the observed presence of a UAP
▪ levitation of the witness or of objects and animals in the vicinity
▪ maneuvers of a UAP appearing to anticipate the witness’ thoughts
▪ premonitory dreams or visions
▪ personality changes promoting unusual abilities in the witness
▪ healing

Layer VI: The sixth and last category could be called cultural. It is concerned with society’s reactions to the reports, the way in which secondary effects (hoaxes, fiction, and science-fiction imagery, scientific theories, cover-up or exposure, media censorship or publicity, sensationalism, etc.) become generated, and the attitude of members of a given culture towards the concepts that UAP observations appear to challenge.

In the United States, the greatest impact of the phenomenon has been on general acceptance of the idea of life in space and a more limited -- but potentially very significant -- change in the popular concept of non-human intelligence. In earlier cultures such as medieval Europe or Portugal in the early years of the 20th Century, the cultural context of anomalous observations was strongly colored by religious beliefs.


Incommensurability, Orthodoxy, and the Physics of High Strangeness:
A 6-layer Model for Anomalous Phenomena
Jacques F. Vallee and Eric W. Davis
National Institute for Discovery Science
Las Vegas, Nevada


I didn't even notice when I originally linked it that Vallee was one of the authors.

Regards to the mentioning of the creator, that actually relates back to the other threads I referenced in my prior post to this thread.

And how that relates is this:

consciousness.



That is the universal constant and unifying theory which science has been seeking for. Consciousness ties the entirety of existence together and is the cohesive force that provides the order and structure which is apparent when observing anything from the physical to the spiritual that I mention in this post in Slayer's excellent thread titled, Milky Way galaxy may have formed inside-out.

The various threads dealing with quantum consciousness present some very compelling evidence that consciousness is an inherent physical property of the fabric we find ourselves embedded within. An individual mind is evidence of quantum coherence within a larger consciousness field and that cam account for the various psychic phenomena people are able to demonstrate.

Science and mysticism are finding a lot more similarities than differences; telling us that what the mystics of various traditions have been saying for eons, is true.



posted on Feb, 1 2014 @ 11:30 AM
link   
Please forgive me for the extension of this post.
It’s a personal opinion and it does not contain factual information or links for that.

In this thread I have seen tremendous posts full of information and personal insight (The Gut, Red Cairo, KPB, Willtell and so many others). I am learning a lot (I must confess my ignorance on so many aspects of the UFO phenomenon).

Many posts/posters focus on the ambivalence nature of the UFO phenomenon or of the control system. Good/Evil, Trickster/Buddha, Angels/Demons, ETH/IDH, free will/external control, you get the point.
It’s a bit manichaeist (dualism?) and it may reflect the cultural and religious background of most of us. It also reflects our need to simplify information/facts for better and faster understanding. But it is the best way to deal with this phenomenon?

On reading this tread I often recall David Lynch´s Twin Peaks tv series of 1990. It reflected on the dark nature of the human behaviour and soul. How we are not entirely good or bad.

We need a Copernican revolution on how to study the UFO phenomenon or the control system.

Perhaps, we are too centered on us, humans. Or on how are victims of external nefarious control.
On how relatively important we are to others (for fun, pleasure, recreational activities, as a cosmical/biological enterprise, etc).

I suspect we are dealing with different phenomena emanating from different sources/natures and requiring multiple explanation scenarios for comprehension (ETH, IDH, post-biological simulation, time-travelling, etc).
Our (species, dimension, universe, reality) might have a specific interest/relation to each source/nature.
It may be needed different skills and understanding for each phenomenon at hand.
Maybe, in the end, all combine/interact to the same goal/end/purpose.

Vallee is one of the most brilliant intellects studying this phenomenon. But I also think that he is compromised both by his ego and his connections with the intel community. I also feel that his terminology is not the most appropriate and might be leading us in the wrong way (it reflects his backgrounds as a computer engineer). Maybe he is deliberately implanting memes to foil us?
We all know that the verbal/writing description of the UFO phenomenon may vary based on the personal language skills and education. And Vallee is no exception.



posted on Feb, 1 2014 @ 11:33 AM
link   
reply to post by nugget1
 





TF good=positive energy, and bad= negative energy, AND only positive energy can enter the kingdom of the Creator, then all the doctrine to 'be good' handed down through the ages might ( in modern terms the ancients didn't have the knowledge to understand) have been trying to get people to shift their energy to positive. ext


Imo, The "Kingdom of God" is where the positive energy originates.

Positive energy is nothing but the absence of the negative energy

The negative energy comes from a corrupted KOG

Positive energy will return to the Corrupted KOG when it resolves its corruption.

Putting positive energy on a corrupted soul doesn’t resolve the corruption until the soul is purified. KOG is a part of the soul.

It’s like a fountain. When mud comes from a fountain pouring pure water on the output won't cure it just dilute it more

One has to clean out the fountain then produce pure water



posted on Feb, 1 2014 @ 11:46 AM
link   
reply to post by nugget1
 





Your description of Mr. Trickster sounds no different than others description of God. Instead of saying 'Trickster' or 'God' we could just say 'Pure energy' or 'corrupt energy' if it would make you more receptive to considering ideas other than your own.


'corrupt' is still a value statement like 'evil'.. but I think I can
deal with that term.

A beautiful pure loving power lives within me.. that powers
all the healing I do.. that teaches me indirectly.. by being
the pure awareness which illuminates all both natural
and corrupt. I view this power as pure awareness.. the
'observer'. It has no personality of it's own.. no words spoken
to me.. no images projected.. it is one of the two great poles
of existence... primal awareness .. and form in all it's manifestations.

so I truly understand what it's like to 'know' .. though others
would call what I have 'faith or religion'. But to me it's just
a simple compansionship that proves itself as real every
day of my life.

I'm not so different from a lot of people.. only I find all
spiritual and religious systems corrupt without exception..
and my 'relationship' with the 'pure power' does not
depend upon any corrupt system.. we walk together
simply becuase my heart has always been pure from
birth, and I was shown how to purify my body and
emotions.



posted on Feb, 1 2014 @ 11:57 AM
link   
Here's a thread from a while back that covers this topic from some different angles than has been discussed here, definitely worth a read:

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Feb, 1 2014 @ 12:35 PM
link   
reply to post by nugget1
 


I just want to post this one response to you and Will and others.

The thing that always blows my mind, is that people who think
the world is full of evil.. or being controlled.. or is a simulation..
or whatever..

they always think that their religion is immune to this.. that the
bible or whatever is 100% immune to this...

But in fact, the exact opposite is the truth.. ALL the world's
religions..ALL the world's spiritual systems are not just
corrupt.. but ARE THE PRIMARY CONTROL SYSTEM.

It's only now that UFOs are such a big thing, that they have
become the new control system.. for those who can't be
controlled by the older methods.

This is why, in my opinion (this is all my 'opinion') all true
seekers should consider doing what the Buddha did..
what I did.. start from scratch. Throw out EVERYTHING
and have faith that 'god' will honor the effort, and you'll
learn non-corrupted things not from the control system.

Now, no doubt some of my fellow posters think they have
done this too..

but if you even say the words god, good, evil, annunanki,
angel, demon -- and those symbols are part of a person's
world-view, then I say that person is a prisoner of the
'matrix'.

This has been my view for almost 50 years.

This is my 2 cents.

Kevin



posted on Feb, 1 2014 @ 01:20 PM
link   
Well an exciting development.

I used to be friends with a world famous physicist, who is also a mystic.
He was one of the early developers of the zero point field concept.
He was never part of the aviary or even on the fringes of it apparently..
I think he tried to be more 'conventional' outwardly and stayed away.

But it turns out he's good friends with Vallee.. for the past 30 years.

I'm going to have a call with my former friend tomorrow to discuss
these topics and others.. and I think if he's interested in what I have
to say, that a conference call with JV would be easily possible.

How fascinating.

Maybe we'll rekindle the old friendship.. that would be awesome..
my old friend is quite a fellow in his own right.

On a related note, Persinger got scared silly by me apparently
and dropped our emial conversaton on the second round of
discussion. Or he thought I was a loser. Maybe both. Who knows?

Kevin



posted on Feb, 1 2014 @ 01:33 PM
link   
reply to post by seentoomuch
 


Thank you... it's a good read.

Kevin



posted on Feb, 1 2014 @ 01:39 PM
link   


but if you even say the words god, good, evil, annunanki, angel, demon -- and those symbols are part of a person's world-view, then I say that person is a prisoner of the 'matrix'.
reply to post by KellyPrettyBear
 


You forgot the word 'Trickster'
AND 'parasite'....

What you describe as 'truth' sounds like you picked what you chose to believe from the fountain of knowledge, and made your own personal 'religious' doctrine.
edit on 600000011America/Chicago281 by nugget1 because: To add comment



posted on Feb, 1 2014 @ 01:45 PM
link   
reply to post by KellyPrettyBear
 


One thing that's problematic about a system of non-belief is that we, as humans, find it difficult, if not impossible, to operate in that mode.

We are, if nothing else, ideology.

Once truly detached from frameworks... then what? (Big empty, echoing room with mirrors)

But that "then what" is interesting... I just wonder if we've baked enough in the "oven of belief" to not have residue on the toothpick.



posted on Feb, 1 2014 @ 01:46 PM
link   
reply to post by nugget1
 


It's what Buddha did too.
It's what all true mystics do.

I don't need the words trickster or parasite.
They are just words.
Words cannot ACTUALLY describe reality.


Really I'm much more turned on to the word
symbiote right now.

As for doing what I did.. anyone can do it.. and
then the test is, how many people can you help
with your approach?

If all you can do is prattle on about the same
old garbage and you can't summon.. can't
heal.. can't do various things.. then your
path has no fruit. Becoming loving and kind
and honest are even more important fruit..
and the willingness to be scorned.. that's
another important fruit.

Really all the paths are worthless, even mine..
in and of themselves..
the goal is to become transformed and to
bear fruit.

You don't need a single word spoken to do that.

My 2 cents.

Kevin



posted on Feb, 1 2014 @ 01:51 PM
link   
reply to post by Baddogma
 


Very insightful.

If you just become totally liminal, but don't find the
tiny door to stability, then you just go mad.

Living in the void is pure madness.

There is a way to become stable.. to find the tiny
seed of something in the vast field that leads to
something 'human' in the midst of all that wide-openness.

And I'm still finding it myself.. but I think I've turned the
corner..

Kevin



posted on Feb, 1 2014 @ 01:54 PM
link   
reply to post by Baddogma
 


one thing I love about the path of the Shaman is that it's
based on 'intent' and not on belief, knowledge, or any of
the usual drek.

It's pure.

You can learn to hone your intent, without knowing anything
at all.. without grasping anything at all..

then the void does not howl, it hugs.

More to it than that.. but that's a key thing,
at least that's my 2 cents.

Kevin



posted on Feb, 1 2014 @ 02:11 PM
link   
reply to post by KellyPrettyBear
 


Insightful back atcha.

"Path of the Shaman" implies belief, buddy, just to clarify ( insert smiley face here).

Define those terms more and the flack will clear... maybe one should have beliefs but have a general "maybe" stuck on ALL of them. Leaving oneself open to being wrong about the nature of everything is healthy, imo, but I've noticed folks immersed in belief systems are "happier"- whatever that really means.

It's simply easier to exist in this world when you think you have a clue as to what is going on.



new topics

top topics



 
154
<< 40  41  42    44  45  46 >>

log in

join