Dr. Jacques Vallee ~ The Control System

KellyPrettyBear
reply to post by Rosinitiate

 

What is so dramatic about our past, our truth that mustn't be known. Simply that we are slaves? Does it only take the realization of that to stop it?

What if humans have always been the junior partners to another type of mind?
Wouldn't it be exciting if humans could evolve past being unwitting food and
take up the mantle of leadership? Stop being victims? That is certainly possible
and very exciting to consider. But to accomplish that, the average human would
have to learn how to throw off the inhibitor collars and become liminal personalities
en masse. Rather than being the bailiwick of sorcerers .. perhaps this is the only
freedom for the human race.. the only way to break the great cycle of self-destructive
behavior.

KPB

I think it would be a fantastic experience if we could do so en masse. I think the issue here than, would be an organized effort to keep us ignorant of this potential reality. How do you get a collective to realize they're being controlled or manipulated when they have know concept of this reality?

Now if we're looking at two pieces of a potential whole, the government UFO meme and the "supernatural" phenomenon (tricksters) , these being separate yet intertwined as one, is there collusion or simply one piggybacking the other?

It stands to reason if these "tricksters" have been here all along, then its safe to assume they helped or totally engineered the existing "police state" for want of another word to there own end. Which would make our "elites" ignorant co-conspirators, or one of the same as those who wish to enslave us.

On a side note: its good to see you back on the threads and your opinions are more than welcome in my opinion.

Interestingly, all those espousing the meme conspiracy theories are themselves subject to the meme of conspiracy typified by the matrix movies and movies like V for vendetta.

One could say traditions are false all they want but they are unavoidable.
Even atheism is an ism
Beware, for much of this can be an emotional reaction to a bad experiences by some.

If those here really want to examine this I would HIGHLY recommend the book the Stargate Conspiracy.www.amazon.com...

This examines the idea of Government creation of memes and a new religion started by the Intelligence agencies, based on the pre-millennial obsession with Egypt.

It literally has characters, archetypal, historical, and literal that we have been discussing in this thread and others.

Another point to make is that the western man has been hoisted upon the double edged sword of freedom where the faith in the mythology of Christianity has been ruptured beyond repair.

Nature abhors a vacuum, the alien UFO phenom is kicking at the door to be let in TO FILL A HUGE VACUM.

Rosinitiate
...It stands to reason if these "tricksters" have been here all along, then its safe to assume they helped or totally engineered the existing "police state" for want of another word to there own end. Which would make our "elites" ignorant co-conspirators, or one of the same as those who wish to enslave us.

Oh we are soooo going there. Not because I want to steer it that way, but because Vallee himself takes us there. Globalism + UFOs. Working on it now.

I love this thread. S&F.

In reading it, I was instantly drawn to my bookcase to bring down Mack's Abduction's book and another one I have of abduction stories called Encounters by Fiore.

I'm looking for hints about the control system through their experiences.

I do believe the occult and UFO/Alien phenomenon is inter-related through personal experience.

So here's my thought and it's just a hypothesis and not something I'm saying I adhere to with conviction, and I'll use a popular book everyone will be familiar with as a starting point. The Fellowship of the Ring. Now in that book we see much of our myth reflected. It always struck me - the elves. They were leaving this Earth or in the book Middle Earth - to separate themselves from man. Traveling across the waters, through a veil that would separate their kind from us.

Why? Well because we're us. Human and it did not complement well with the other race of beings ways. So they left, and left us behind to do as we do, and here we are.

Now back to reality. Perhaps something like this did occur, and the control system isn't one the government is trying to maintain - but it is one they are trying to break - to get over to the other side where the "UFO/Alien" dwell. I don't think we're in control of the system - I think ultimately - the upper echelons of human society would like to take control of it - but that is just pipe dreams.

Now the controls set into place in my opinion were the Abrahamic religions. No science, no magic, no reading for the peasants, no believing in anything except what your told to think.

Well all of that was thrown away. I mean not literally. People still call themselves Christian, Jewish, and Muslim - but they don't follow the word. They allow science in their life. They watch all sorts of things magic. We read anything we wish, even those texts once thought taboo. We do science. We encourage alternative/magical belief systems now and don't burn them at the stake. Everyone can read and piece together whatever readings they wish. It's freedom and tolerance! The control system is a buckling and now we see UFO/Alien paranormal phenomenon with increased regularity. Why?

I personally believe it started with people like Dee, Crowley, Hubbard and Hitlers occultists- but ultimately it was the Atom/Adam? haha that brought them back in force. I truly do believe when we tested our nuclear weapons, more dimensions than we can see and the life included in them - is affected.

Eh', I'm going to stop now before my thoughts become even more disjointed and abstract.

Very thought provoking thread, The Gut. I love your stuff.

CdT

It must be understood, before we go headlong into the Matrix, V, conspiracy devil theories…That like the old saying “people get the politicians they deserve, never forget “People get the gods and demons they deserve as well.

The real spiritual teachers understood this therefore they emphasized the cultivation of the individual self above the social self…it’s a balancing act that many fall to the ground trying to maintain.

Older video with the good Doc and others

reply to post by The GUT


Mr G, how I love Vallee and all his work on these subjects. Like you, I also wonder what Doc Jock meant by the "Control System". Every thing you ever post convinces me that me and you would enjoy a long talk on many subjects. Just wanted to say thanks for posting this and send you some hugs and high fives.

PS-I have recently acquired a new computer that allows me more access to communication programs. If you ever want to waste a few hours talking about stuffs, send me a PM and we can find somewhere to digitally interact.

reply to post by Mr Mask

HaHa, I posted it and my Mr. Mask Homage on pg 1!! Much love, brother, and heck yeah I wanna chat with the genius behind the mask!

p.s. - Awesome member rosinitiate really wants some COD action with ya, btw. As a team member I might add, not on the receiving end I don't think.

reply to post by The GUT


Sent you a PM good sir. I look forward to a wild and twisting interaction soon.

See ya then sir!!! Big fan!

KellyPrettyBear
reply to post by BlueMule

 

So studying a system of lies and disinformation has
value in and of itself? I guess that's true. For a
start..

KPB

You know what they say, "Know your enemy...."

reply to post by Mr Mask


Can we expect a camper killer commentary featuring "the Gut" as a rap battle about inter-dimensional versus extraterrestrial?

Thats something I'd break the like button to see!!

sorry people I'm working from ipad and it messes me up when quoting on posts bear with me

Caver78
www.ask.com...
"Feedback loop can be defined as a section of a control system which allows for feedback and self-correction while adjusting its operation according to disparities between the actual output and the desired output."



I would think that a big chunk of that self correction is the dichotomy between the contactee's & the mainstream ufology. Valid info is brought to light, then chewed up (steamrollered) by the mainstream. Actual output - Desired output.

Just the fact this whole "Control Mechanism" idea was trotted out years ago and we are still debating it's validity is just sad. The evidence has been in our faces for what? more than 20 years?

The Gut has begun many threads like this all with no real resolution. (no disrespect meant) It's obvious he's looking for a certain puzzle piece without wanting to actually ask the question. I mention this because it's past time for us to be coming up with some real answers instead of just nibbling around the edges.

Looking at this in light of WillTell's point that UFO's are the passive portion of the control system, that is brilliant in that humans are notoriously wildly unpredictable. Makes sense to me.

edit on 25-1-2014 by Caver78 because: (no reason given)

. i agree and will tell makes a great point there,it really does make alot of sense looking at it like that ,and in so many abductee stories the abductees are subdued and or parylized probably for good reason,because we are such a violent and unpredictable race they know this about us and aren't taking any chances and its just easier for them.

Brotherman
reply to post by Mr Mask

 

Can we expect a camper killer commentary featuring "the Gut" as a rap battle about inter-dimensional versus extraterrestrial?

Thats something I'd break the like button to see!!

Hahahahahahaha. It is no secret that I love The GUT and enjoy his thought processes on many topics. I don't see any reason for a battle between us, not in rap or on any field of war. But- I WOULD love to mix some ideas with the man and see what becomes of it. I am overly interested in talking about Dr Vallee's work with him. We both seem a little "overly interested" in his work.

I bet The GUT raps like a pro tho!!!

Rosinitiate

It stands to reason if these "tricksters" have been here all along, then its safe to assume they helped or totally engineered the existing "police state" for want of another word to there own end. Which would make our "elites" ignorant co-conspirators, or one of the same as those who wish to enslave us.

I just want to quibble a bit, if I may. There is a chance that these tricksters are more like psycho-physical manifestations of the trickster archetype; living myths... and less like autonomous beings with agendas and malevolent aspirations. So, trickster scholarship might prove vital to the future of ufology. For that, we must turn to religion, myth, folktales.

"Myths are public dreams, dreams are private myths" -Joseph Campbell

Vladimir Propp, literary theorist, thought that Russian folktales could be seen as variations of a few underlying plot elements. Generally, a preliminary situation is followed by "misfortune or lack" and then by a sequence of events that repairs what misfortune or lack disturbed. The trickster figure mischief-maker and thief is one of the prime movers of the narrative. He gets the story moving and it comes to an end when he and his mischief have been dealt with.

There are only a few ways to deal with the trickster. A limited number of plots. From the threshold there are only a few ways the trickster can move. He can come inside, he can leave entirely, or he can stay exactly where he started, resisting all attempts to civilize or exile. From the tricksters point of view, staying on the threshold is the ideal. It gives us the plot that never resolves, the endlessly strung-together Coyote tales each linked to each with the phrase "Coyote was going along..."

Awakened consciousness is the potential end of the narrative, without it the tale can go on and on, another night, another season... another unconscious projection of the trickster archetype that we can't withdraw and can't exile.

"The so-called civilized man has forgotten the trickster. He remembers him only figuratively and metaphorically, when, irritated by his own ineptitude, he speaks of fate playing tricks on him or of things being bewitched. He never suspects that his own hidden and apparently harmless shadow has qualities whose dangerousness exceeds his wildest dreams." -Carl Jung

The trickster figure is more than a mere story, more than a mere metaphor. It's an archetype of the collective unconscious. It's part of us, and our minds project it "out there" in symbolic, poetic, cryptic, semi-autonomous thought-forms that change from culture to culture, age to age, person to person, religion to religion.

In our modern space-age culture, it has taken the form of UFOs for many people. The archetype is projected "out there" in UFO form where it is seen by many people. A public dream that is solid enough for radar to bounce off of.

But how can that be, you ask? If UFOs are mere projections, then there shouldn't be any physical evidence, right? Radar can't bounce off a dream... you can't take a photograph of a psychic object, can you?

"Oh yes, this is an important point to make, which the flying saucer people are forever misunderstanding, and that is that saying the flying saucer is a psychic object does not mean it is not a physical object. Jung in Mysterium Coniunctionis is at great pains to say that the realm of the psychic and the realm of the physical meet in a strange kind of never-never land that we have yet to create the intellectual tools to explore. This is where the mystery of synchronicity is going to come to rest, the mystery of all kinds of paranormal activity on the part of human beings, and the mystery of the flying saucer." -Terence McKenna

Caver78
In looking for patterning within this alleged control system, the intelligence gathering aspect of it, we may do well to look at circumstances surrounding our past.

the library at alexandria
china's Mao & cultural cleansing
hitler, stalin and all the rest.

Every time humanity has enough information collected in one spot to begin tracking the control systems patterns we spontaneously suffer a setback. Curious no?
Due to the extremely long timeline and our past fragmentation we're approaching this cusp again with the NSA and the internet. Same thing, different era.

curious indeed ! and I have long thought about this on many occasions ,the past most definitely has some clues to our future and it seems like hummanity always get so far only to be road blocked or have puzzle pieces missing making no sense rendering all the work you've done useless ,I just wish something big would happen that would explain this frustrating # lol,I love ats and there has been some great threads ,i hope that one day we will crack the great mystery of the universe and life on this planet together and soon cuz I feel like I'm going crazy,keep up the good work and I will also be watching for patterns you are so right same thing different era but will we change the course of history and break this pattern or just sit back and let it repeat itself again?

reply to post by Mr Mask


Me and the Gut have tons of symmetry in regards to ufo and when I said rap battle I meant you two battle together you just got to get him on COD kind of like how you presented your viewpoints on stupid atheists video where you presented both sides and fairly and then put forth your view on things. The Gut probably does rap like a maniac

In the Epilogue, Vallee tells us about his more recent ideas about UFOs as a manifestation of a "control system", and this aspect is treated elsewhere on this site (go to our search engine and search for "Vallee"). In the Epilogue Vallee talks a little bit about physics, parallel realities, hyperspace etc.:

"Cosmology now recognizes the possibility, indeed the inevitability, of multiple universes with more than four dimensions. Communication and travel within our universe are no longer thought to be absolutely constrained by the speed of light and a constant arrow of time. Even travel into the past may be considered without necessarily creating insurmountable paradoxes. This is a tremendously exciting development. It opens up vast new realms for theoretical and experimental endeavor."

Link

This is an interesting read, personally if you can get past the "I'm a whiny do gooder" theme the author of this page presented (this is of course my opinion) he actually raises an interesting question towards the bottom of the page, I won't spoil that for yall though.

BlueMule
But how can that be, you ask? If UFOs are mere projections, then there shouldn't be any physical evidence, right? Radar can't bounce off a dream... you can't take a photograph of a psychic object, can you?

"Oh yes, this is an important point to make, which the flying saucer people are forever misunderstanding, and that is that saying the flying saucer is a psychic object does not mean it is not a physical object. Jung in Mysterium Coniunctionis is at great pains to say that the realm of the psychic and the realm of the physical meet in a strange kind of never-never land that we have yet to create the intellectual tools to explore. This is where the mystery of synchronicity is going to come to rest, the mystery of all kinds of paranormal activity on the part of human beings, and the mystery of the flying saucer." -Terence McKenna

A kind of extra-dimensional space within our own space where our thoughts, feelings, wants and needs are made manifest through the power of belief or co-comprehension perhaps? Henri Corbin's Imaginal Realm begins to explore this idea but falls short in my opinion. The Never-Neverland of J M Barrie, C S Lewis and Narnia right through to Stephen Donaldson's Thomas Covenant Chronicles, barter with the same themes of other worlds outside of the perception of others but which can be directly and tangibly experienced by some. Whether such worlds are the imagination made manifest, or represent multi-verses or parallel dimensions, accepting the possibility of such, explains much.

Loved your post

In the following posts we'll take a deeper look at statements made by Jacques Vallee in Forbidden Science II and his introduction to certain elements within the intelligence community.

If we believe that Jacques is basically an honest man with good intentions, then we might come to the conclusion that his concepts were prostituted for purposes he didn't envision. I believe much evidence exists for that, however it's also possible that he's attempting to shift blame and save his historical reputation. The former, for now, seems to me the most likely.

If his ideas were used for purposes and in ways he never meant for them to be, then Dr. Christopher "Kit" Green is a prime suspect. If true, maybe it's no surprise that Kit Green turned up with his hand in the SERPO cookie jar. (For those who may not be familiar with Dr. Christopher "Kit" Green, just do a search including his nickname or check out the links in my signature.)


One reason I tend to lean towards trusting Jacques, is his early--even prophetic--warning of the dangers of cultish new religions based on the UFO phenomenon. He called the dangers of Heaven's Gate long before the suicides. He also makes mention of the coming "police state" and how the UFO phenomenon could be twisted to such ends.

As we look at the statements in FS II, there are, I feel, some points to carefully consider:

- The progress and evolution of the control system theory and how wide-ranging its influences including computer science.

- The apparent interest of the intelligence cadre in Dr. Vallee's theories. Especially Kit Green

- Jacques not-so-veiled rant against the machinations, deceptions--and even menacing behavior--associated with his intelligence contacts.

Doc Jock also makes many interesting comments about Dr. Green. Kit has cultivated a persona that seems to paint himself as a UFO believer of sorts. Maybe he is these days, maybe not. His early beliefs--as detailed by Vallee--shows a man interested in the sociological aspect and quite dismissive of the UFO community. A little later we'll look at other documents that also agree and suggest he never truly changed his views and sees much of the UFO community as mentally ill and in need of medication. He seemed pretty hyped about how Jacques control system theories might have some intelligence uses, however.

I know the following is somewhat text heavy, but I believe most of y'all will find it both fascinating and relevant to the discussion here:

…When our conversation returned to the undercurrent and the activities of the government, Hal insisted it was time for me to meet his spooky friends. ““I'm ready, if they mean business. Where are they hiding?””…““They're getting nowhere,”” Hal said in frustration... ““They have no concept of the Magonia angle; they still see the topic in terms of extraterrestrial technology, propulsion systems, space hardware.”..

…Hal's contact is a boyish fellow, Dr. Christopher Green nicknamed Kit, a dynamic bespectacled young man of medium build with alert brown eyes. He holds a doctorate in biology, exudes optimism and refreshing humor…

Dr. Hal Puthoff is another cat that had his paw in the SERPO cookie jar. A onetime Scientologist of high-ranking and another who has portrayed himself as a believer in the ETH. Maybe he, too, is these days, but back then (70s) he seems to lean towards the IDH…or at least that's what he's apparently leading Jacques to believe.

Kit Green, Pat Price, & Hal Puthoff Back in tha' Day

…I had lunch with Pat Price and Hal Puthoff. A temporary clearance is being setup to enable me to visit Kit Green next month in hopes to better understand the chessboard. Oddly enough, in this situation, it is the individual researcher who is in the best position to gain an understanding. As I extend my contacts in Washington it is that precious freedom that I must preserve above everything else…

Don't do it, Jacques! Darn, 4 decades too late. Kind of sounds like the same trap that Bill Moore allegedly fell into.

A brief aside: Jacques Vallee, unlike Al Gore, really did help bring the internet into existence, from his early days at Stanford to his seminal work for ARPA--precursor to DARPA--on the then called, ARPANET.

The Planning Network (PLANET) was the first ARPANET chat system, predating the Internet. PLANET was invented by Jacques Vallee, Roy Amara, Robert Johansen, and others from the Institute of the Future in 1973.

It was the first chat program designed for the ARPANET, and enabled anybody on the network to log into the system. PLANET was used in a series of evaluation studies, and had a considerable influence on those that used it and later research.

www.livinginternet.com...

He did a lot more than that, but that gives an idea of Vallee being there from square one and his in-depth understanding of information networks and potentialities. Now, Ft. Meade and games:

I spent two fine hours in the office of Tom Belden, a legendary analyst at the Institute for Defense Analyses. He came to pick me up in Kit's office and said with a chuckle, as he guided me down the wide corridors of the CIA at Langley, ““Do you realize that I have to use this bloody Agency as my cover?”

...The day was spent training NSA analysts at Fort Meade. There was a funny moment: sitting at a classified terminal to demonstrate Planet over the Arpanet…

…He told me stories about the early use of conferencing in the Intelligence community. We discussed crisis simulation games on computer networks, a subject on which I was eager to have his wisdom. He explained why multilingual computer conferences should use interpreters rather than translators, and told me about the ingenious research games he had invented to create standardized conflict simulations within dispersed groups…

…Kit came over for a long talk about Lopez Rega, the cults of California and my theories of control systems.

In the second-to-the-last-paragraph above I've emphasized some key terms: Intelligence community, and Belden remarking on. "ingenious research games he had invented to create standardized conflict simulations within dispersed groups." Those simulations on networks we might note.

Note also Kit's interest above in Jacques' "control system" theories.

…It brings us back to a psychophysical control system. There's a secondary human impact, easier to analyze, the undercurrent working through groups using the alien mythology to propagate their own agenda. Examples: the Ummo hoax, the cults, the shadowy military folks who promote the Holloman affair. But I still don't understand the connection between these two aspects.

"Myth," and "Shadowy Military Folk," he says...I can believe it.

Murray Turoff and Roxanne Hiltz are attending this meeting on teleconferencing where panelists argue endlessly about the Delphi technique of forecasting…

…As I came out of a session where Turoff was a speaker, I found myself face to face with Bill Powers stepping out of another meeting…

...Conversation turned to research on higher consciousness under his feedback system of behavior. ““The only way to study a control system is to introduce perturbations into it,”” he advised.

An introduction of "pertubations" into the "control system," eh? That might hurt…depending on the character and motives of those doing it.

Forbidden Science II