Dr. Jacques Vallee ~ The Control System

originally posted by: 1ofthe9
Did you catch that he was the one who pointed Emenegger at the Holloman stuff?

Wow. No, i didn't. That's pretty huge in my thinking.

How do you rate the source?

originally posted by: The GUT

originally posted by: 1ofthe9
Did you catch that he was the one who pointed Emenegger at the Holloman stuff?

Wow. No, i didn't. That's pretty huge in my thinking.

How do you rate the source?

Good question. I actually forgot which book I found it in - and I'm just hoping there isn't confusion with Leo Verona...

originally posted by: Rosinitiate
After all, integrity isn't top priority for the fool on his journey to dusty death. I sometimes think integrity is an oxymoron. Why is it that those who live by the code and profess integrity and honor are the same that drop bombs and tomahawk cruise missiles? I'd probably piss on integrity if I ever saw it for my simple cynical mind may mistake it for ego.

A fascinating study is digging into what has been written on the "cult of intelligence." Beginning at Wild Bill Donovan is a good place to start, but of course it begins earlier and then Allen Dulles (If anyone knows what happened to JFK he did!) really created much of the culture and its ethics as it were in addition to fathering the MKULTRA family and Project Paperclip. JFK--?!. Heroes and patriots have many been, but whatever you were going in, is not what you are coming out.

Being a veteran whose MOS was by it's nature more fraternal than most, I certainly understand the bond that builds, but I have also experienced the above-the-law 'cause we-are-the-law side of that, and there comes a point where you have to make a decision if you can live with that or not. I did make some mistakes along the way, and was silent about things that bothered me, but ultimately that wasn't me.

The following excerpt is from CIA & MKULTRA operative George White's resignation letter to his boss Dr. Sidney Gottlieb of MKULTRA infamy:

I was a very minor missionary, actually a heretic, but I toiled wholeheartedly in the vinyards because it was fun, fun, fun. Where else could a red-blooded American boy lie, kill, cheat, steal, rape, and pillage with the sanction and blessing of the All-Highest?

It's the age old decision faced by all of us exponentially multiplied by the sheer power offered by the ultimate immunity.

George Hunter White

Don't get me wrong, I'm know that there are, and I'm familiar with, many outstanding and impressive folk that serve or have served in that capacity. But to deny that something unwholesome also resides in the bowels of the apparatus is futile in my opinion.

Btw: For anyone unfamiliar with the story of red blooded American George White, you can read the full letter in a great article full hookers, johns, lucy in the sky with diamonds, two-way mirrors, cameras, more on Dulles, and sheeee-nanigans galore read about it here:

Altered States of America

Aha! I found the source! Forbidden Science - Volume Two, page 274.

"This morning we left the Queen Mary, driving to Bob and Margaret Emenegger fine house in Hollywood for lunch. Bob confirmed that his involvement with the Pentagon started when Jack Verona, who told him how to set up the program, wrote the first letter and give him access to Holloman."

a reply to: 1ofthe9

I'll be darn, I didn't catch that. Good un'. Reminds me that I need to read it again. The first time I was taking copious notes for MIB thread. It'll be good to just absorb it whole.

It's nearly irrefutable...everywhere you look the same players and associates have their hands in the biggest, bogus, ufological myth-making lineage ever perpetrated on the public. They've literally crafted & shaped the modern mythology. Amazing.

How MUCH better ufology will be when--and if--that ever sinks in to the larger community.

Don't know how I missed this, but if any else has here ya' go. Great thread by mirageman wherein Vallee's 3rd--and the one he says is the most frightening and dangerous--aspect of the control system comes into play: The M.I.C. & Easter Egg Ufology.

Majestic 12: A UFO Disinformation Scandal

There's an impressive percentage of brainpower and sharp researchers having some penetrating conversation in that thread.

a reply to: The GUT

Thanks for that George White article TG, I knew that the CIA had supplied acid back in the day and basically started the psychedelic movement, but I didn't realize that they bought all of it that Sandoz produced... Wow, that is crazy. As messy and crude as all of that early experimentation was I'll bet they found out a whole boat load of 'useful' information. In fact, I'll bet they refined their methods many years ago and still have it in their toolbox.

I just wonder how many other compounds and chemicals they have discovered to further their mind control agendas. All we read now about this stuff is so old that most of it was done before I was born up until I was a teenager. That was a long time ago, the state of the art must be mind boggling by now. Good reading GUT, thanks again.

a reply to: The GUT

apologies for the simplifications, but here are a few thoughts:

biology has an inbuilt control system - natural selection - we've been tampering with it for many millennia to great effect - most significantly through the selective breeding and domestication of various flora and fauna

human brain capacity hasn't increased much for around 200,000 years - the domestication of plants and animals 12,000 years ago was what really changed things, along with the invention of writing, probably necessitated by the increasingly complex administrative requirements of the societies agriculture allowed to develop

since then culture is the dominant factor in human organisation, much more important than biology

in relation to this thread, the important questions for me are:

1) what are the mechanisms by which culture is controlled (in the naturally selective sense)?

2) are those mechanisms being exploited (or attempting to be) in a similar manner to the biological mechanisms?

3) who is doing the manipulation, what are they doing, and and to what end?

personally i get the feeling that this maybe something of a 'cargo cult' amongst the 'intelligentcia'

Well I've just finished Stratagem. Suffice to say that readers of this thread will enjoy it - Vallee basically explains interactions with a control system via scifi narrative. It is definitely tinged with his experiences in Silicon Valley and Brazil. Cheerier ending then Fastwalker.

He also makes use of Redfern's Unit 731/Roswell theory. Thought that was pretty cool.

originally posted by: 1ofthe9
Well I've just finished Stratagem. Suffice to say that readers of this thread will enjoy it - Vallee basically explains interactions with a control system via scifi narrative. It is definitely tinged with his experiences in Silicon Valley and Brazil. Cheerier ending then Fastwalker.

He also makes use of Redfern's Unit 731/Roswell theory. Thought that was pretty cool.

The "control system" and the interdimensional "alien" in Stratagem were so different than Fastwalker, yet they both were hinted to contain bits of truth disguised as fiction. Creepy Sp00ks and military industrial complex villains were pretty consistent though, hrrrmmm. Stratagem is pretty out there and kind of new age even. Cool read though for sure because it's by Doc Jock!

Strange many of these guys are writing novels now.

We may have reached a watershed of information on these sci-fi, occult, AlienUFO, alt history topics.

You know what that means?

originally posted by: tetra50
But I'd like to point this little trick out, within Wiener's analogy, recognizing, of course, that it's only an analogy…
However, regardless of that fact, this fact still remains: Cement is the antithesis of forward movement.

You have to remember context. Much of Wiener's work was done in the post war period when concrete was the material that was going to change the world. Cement binds together any number of materials, sand, gravel, bits of broken bricks etc and forms a durable, multipurpose solid base on which to build.

One of my favourite old-time ATSers, who sadly very seldom posts these days, ConspiracyNut23, always had on his avatar the phrase 'Discussion discovers'. That is what Wiener is referring to in his own way. Communication is central to identifying the nature of problems, additionally one sided view points, cherry picking of data are revealed via discussion. Assuming sufficient enquiring minds, who verify information for themselves and check sources by hitting the books rather than just Google. By drawing on printed resources, in our own homes, from libraries, rather than those already available on the internet, as most threads do, we have a much better chance of getting the right mixture and balance of information required to counter any form of disinformation or misdirection. And, more importantly, we have a much better chance of finding a workable solution to what the future holds in store for us and of turning that into affirmative action. Even cement, if you know your chemistry, is always transforming and changing, but you are right to an extent, because that kind of transformative power is far too slow for our current needs. We need to adapt a lot quicker, like a billion times quicker than cement is capable of. Perhaps, plasma is a better analogy for the kind of binding agent we need Though really, Wiener would have used the internet and mass communication technology as the necessary descriptive had he been writing today, but it is only the means, not the end. We need to keep bringing in fresh material not simply regurgitating.

Thanks for the kind words. Much appreciated.

originally posted by: Willtell
You know what that means?

I'm not sure. Since the public is allegedly at least 40 years behind black ops, does their writing about this stuff imply that they're all way ahead of it by now and there is little worry in sharing this much?

Or did you mean something else?

a reply to: RedCairo

It may mean all has been said. The education process has been done.
There only remains some form of… (How shall I put this?)
Some form of unfolding of reality that all and much or some of these themes have suggested will happen…there’s nothing much more else to say.

In any knowledge there is a foremost group who has mastered it.
Amongst them will be the leaders of the age of unfolding…

Leaders are leaders because they have LEADING information.

To be fair, a fairly huge percentage of the 'leaders' in the fields of ufology, occult and more, have been MISleading at least as much as they have been leading. ;-)

Maybe there is nothing more to say, or maybe they have, despite their public enthusiasm, hit about the same private wall nearly everybody else has. There is a point where information just basically peters out, not because it doesn't exist but because it just isn't available.

a reply to: RedCairo

I don't know how you said so much with so little but you did. Tip o' the hat to your wisdom, m'aam.

a reply to: KilgoreTrout

Dear Kilgore: Thanks for the reply.
Communication is, indeed, central and extremely important. The lack of duality within it and double entenders, or double speak is absolutely necessary. You see, I have a theory that so much today of communication is carried out in just such this way that we are getting absolutely nowhere. And the reason for speech like that is to obfuscate, confuse and ensure, in general that NO communication of any real value takes place. But, that's just me.

Communication is central to identifying the nature of problems, additionally one sided view points, cherry picking of data are revealed via discussion. Assuming sufficient enquiring minds, who verify information for themselves and check sources by hitting the books rather than just Google. By drawing on printed resources, in our own homes, from libraries, rather than those already available on the internet, as most threads do, we have a much better chance of getting the right mixture and balance of information required to counter any form of disinformation or misdirection. And, more importantly, we have a much better chance of finding a workable solution to what the future holds in store for us and of turning that into affirmative action.

I agree, here, as well. But this is the problem: Some of us are hindered either by our physical situation (can't get to a library) or a financial one (can't buy nor afford these books), though I'd love to be doing more reading than I am on these subjects and more. There's nothing I can do about that now, due to a physical disability, but I hope to rectify that in the future.

My analogy about concrete, perhaps, was not meant to be taken so literally, but applied in a wider sense as to stagnation. If you have your own POV, it can quickly become bias, and so you will seek, naturally,to confirm it, and disregard all that doesn't fit its particular set. This is the danger of the concrete analogy. Though I am sure you are more than bright enough to have understood I meant this.

As for "binding plasma," which is not how you used the term, but how I am choosing to now extrapolate it for my own purposes in reply, that's exactly, most likely what we don't need….to be glued together, for it forever means we would be levelled down to the common denominators amongst us. We need, imho, all the unique minds and mindsets, and to stop muzzling them, or we will get nowhere but just where we are, only with new set dressing on the stage.

Good luck to you in all you endeavor. Perhaps you will be the mind that sets us free.
tetra50

originally posted by: tetra50
My analogy about concrete, perhaps, was not meant to be taken so literally, but applied in a wider sense as to stagnation. If you have your own POV, it can quickly become bias, and so you will seek, naturally,to confirm it, and disregard all that doesn't fit its particular set. This is the danger of the concrete analogy. Though I am sure you are more than bright enough to have understood I meant this.

ATS is, essentially, a social network and entertainment forum. The vast majority of those here, come to be entertained in a social environment. Understandably therefore, they bring to the forum articles and subjects that they are interested in from elsewhere on the internet and reformat them as a thread in order to be able to discuss them with others. Equally understandably, those articles are selected on a preferential basis and selections for copying and pasting are chosen that best support that bias. The reward system, stars, flags and applause, is also based entirely upon opinion. Entertainment by it's very essence demands that it be, to some extent at least, diversionary, escapist and a break from the mundane. Nothing gets done when people are being entertained and the most entertaining people are the most popular. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. It is good and it is healthy, but appreciate that that is what it is. The subjects discussed on here are mainstream and they attract a mainstream audience because it is entertaining. Whether anything is discovered or learned as a result of discussion depends entirely on the individual. You either use the thread as a spring board to delve deeper into a subject, or you move on to the next diversion. Each experience is valid under the context of personal engagement and expectation. The problem however is that the increased level of single bias threads, coupled with the opinion based reward system leads to positive feedback outweighing negative, subsequently it's stuck on repeat. If you have the same conversation, say the same things over and over, you stagnate. Very little new material is being brought in, it is usually just other people's research taken from articles found on the web and, for entertainment purposes, that is adequate. If you want to discover and learn though, not so much.

originally posted by: tetra50
Good luck to you in all you endeavor. Perhaps you will be the mind that sets us free.

Didn't anyone ever tell you to be careful what you wish for? My mind will not set you free, of that I can assure you. Besides having absolutely no interest in doing so, that kind of thing is not where my talents lie, plus I am a total hard ass, the cure would be far worse than the disease

originally posted by: RedCairo

originally posted by: Willtell
You know what that means?

I'm not sure. Since the public is allegedly at least 40 years behind black ops, does their writing about this stuff imply that they're all way ahead of it by now and there is little worry in sharing this much?

As a little side bar, because you kind of raised it...I was watching the documentary film Dirty Wars the other day, and it struck me, why, if the US did indeed have some of the technical capabilities that are attributed to them in these parts, from occult knowledge to sentient plasma balls, would it be using JSOC in the way that it is? And furthermore, why wouldn't they use it on witnesses to resolve all these awkward instances of their illegal actions being made public? All evidence points in fact to the modus operandi not having actually moved any further than the level of mind control developed over 40 years ago. The conclusions that those studies and of the techniques that they utilised, seem perfectly on a par to the situation right now. Where it does seem to have moved on though, is the level of expertise that the US have developed in terms of assassination squads. And that, of course, is where mind control is particularly powerful, on individuals and small groups of reasonably like minded people, who can then serve to tip the balance, one way or another.

We're no way near being 40 years behind 'black ops'. Communications are too good. Corporate competition and therefore espionage is fierce, and that whole world is so incestuous amongst the boards that the flow of 'secrets', means that at the very least, we are getting sniffs of what is being developed militarily because of the flow through to the high end of the electronic and vehicular consumer markets. I wouldn't like to put an exact number on it, but 40 is a ridiculous one, don't you think?

a reply to: RedCairo

Maybe there is nothing more to say, or maybe they have, despite their public enthusiasm, hit about the same private wall nearly everybody else has. There is a point where information just basically peters out, not because it doesn't exist but because it just isn't available.

or maybe it is available but people are looking in the wrong place, or in the wrong way