Dr. Jacques Vallee ~ The Control System

a reply to: KilgoreTrout

OP says KT is on topic. It's certainly a topic that Jacques himself has left pretty open-ended.

Btw, Tangerine, I accidentally replied to you with the "Shrike" comment when it was meant for uggy-lishus.

Hey, Uggle: Shrike? Hope so. I've been worried about the old feller for a year or two.

originally posted by: The GUT
a reply to: KilgoreTrout

OP says KT is on topic. It's certainly a topic that Jacques himself has left pretty open-ended.

Btw, Tangerine, I accidentally replied to you with the "Shrike" comment when it was meant for uggy-lishus.

Hey, Uggle: Shrike? Hope so. I've been worried about the old feller for a year or two.

The Shrike died quietly a while ago after either being banned by the powers that be for possibly unappreciated comments or thread. Unlike the Phoenix he didn't live for 1,000 years but after building his own funeral pyre and jumping in it he was reborn and visits the forum once in a while cloaked in lurking gear. I'm a spokesperson.

a reply to: Uggielicious

Most excellent. Thanks for spokespersoning. I suspect his faculties are as sharp and prickly as ever. No ship: I'll sleep better tonight knowing he conquered the pyre. Thanks for contributing, amigo.

Dr Vallee has stated New possible reasons and dimensions for the control system in his recent writings & interviews.

Also it is not just the control system, he sees that as a possible small part in a bigger picture he paints most interestingly, undiscussed in this thread.

Thirdly he proposes in recent years systematic procedures to be undertaken in response to that bigger picture he presents, again not mentioned here so far.

a reply to: washere
Cool, please share it here! You sure it hasn't been discussed in thread?

a reply to: The GUT

Yes I'm sure of that, though what has been written is of interest to me as explained later below. It would take tens of pages to summarize and in a forum even longer with interactions, time simply I don't have currently. My interest is not aliens but just using Vallee's theories for my own field, alongside other theoreticians of other fields.

I'd like to say in this particular field there are no boundaries as subjects intermesh. This might be good as Vallee calls it "creative intelligence" inspiration which he uses himself well, as do I or inventors and fiction writers. However a methodical scientific approach is missing which is another main problem in this field. Interestingly Vallee himself is one of the few who implements rigorous scientific approaches.

He has been a high level adviser in new technology investment capital venture firms not just recently as is fashionable but for decades. And other projects too. He is a scientific visionary. He was one of the founding structural architects behind the modern internet we have today after the early DARPA primitive backbone of the 60's.

Some like Friedman are interested in disclosure or technology that might be millions of years ahead yet mapped onto current understanding. Some of it might be possible today but I'm not interested in that. Some like Kaku are interested in civilizational rating based on energy mastery levels. That's waiting to be proved obsolete imho. Some are interested in biology. Others in non-craft tech. etc. etc. And people in this field mix it all up into a mishmash. Ending up in a new age cottage industry with the two extremists Vallee identified before anyone: the true radical believers and the disbelievers / debunkers. Vallee's interests and research focus are different and imo superior.

Also he proposes various conflicting theses which is superb. He also does not say the most important things always explicitly though he is more generous than anyone by giving more than anyone. He has links to the inside through some people but is obviously kept out too. This has been great for his formation of various theses. I'm probably the only one thinking this but it's been a blessing in disguise imho. That, his links in, is not the only reason he doesn't spell things out completely and one has to read between the lines. There are other reasons too and again he's right not to do so. This game has many dimensions and his self caution is correct. But he has revealed more than anyone imo.

Also I'm not interested in aliens or technology or politics etc. To me these are transient and I'd bore anyone in this field. Finally the main heterogeneous mishmash problem in this field with it's diverse, mostly irrelevant, references is also a creative fountain which only a few like Vallee can utilize well, probably most of those are unknown and deep inside. I think Ingo Swan was also one of the few on the right track and like Vallee did much for humanity. If no one reads them carefully then that's not their fault. But a lot is there and their work can be taken much further. Vallee just started it.

originally posted by: washere
Dr Vallee has stated New possible reasons and dimensions for the control system in his recent writings & interviews.

Can you give us sources to Vallee's recent writings and interviews?

originally posted by: EasyPleaseMe

originally posted by: washere
Dr Vallee has stated New possible reasons and dimensions for the control system in his recent writings & interviews.

Can you give us sources to Vallee's recent writings and interviews?

The few interviews he's given over the last few years I've heard might be transcripted somewhere but I doubt it. The books should be available through Amazon.

originally posted by: washere
The few interviews he's given over the last few years I've heard might be transcripted somewhere but I doubt it. The books should be available through Amazon.

You mean like this one from February 2014, that took me, like, all of 30 seconds to find...

ovnis-direct.com...

I don't have perfect recall, but I know that other participants in this thread have worked tirelessly to delve into every nook and cranny for the most up to date Vallee material. They have also bought and read Vallee's books and shared their summaries in the thread. In comparison to that level of effort, simply saying that Vallee has come up with 'New possible reasons' doesn't quite cut it. I am sure that your contribution would be welcome, but I suggest that you review the thread a little more thoroughly first.

I am going to have to take an extended break from posting on ATS. As a single working parent time is not something I have a great deal of. Additionally, I am soon to commence a course of study which, I hope, will take me out into much deeper waters and really push me beyond my comfort zones. I'm kind of bricking it...but in a good way. Anyway, I've had a lot of fun playing here, on this thread, amongst others and The GUT has been a highly cordial host, I didn't want to leave without expressing my appreciation for what has most definately been a growth experience.

I will of course be back, I am nothing if not a bad penny.

Anyway, the real reason for this visit, I received my course books on Friday and began reading immediately, I am having trouble tearing myself away from them in all honesty but I was only a few pages in when I was reminded of this thread and I just wanted to share something with you all from Norbert Wiener, the 'founding father' of Cybernetics.

"To live effectively is to live with adequate information. Thus, communication and control belong to the essence of man's inner life, even as they belong to his life in society."

For Wiener control and communication "centred not around the technique of electrical engineering but around...the ...fundamental notion of the message, whether this should be transmitted by electrical, mechanical or nervous means. The message is a discrete or continuous sequence of measurable events distributed in time."

So that "the physical functioning of the living individual and the operation of some of the newer communication machines are precisely parallel in their analogous attempts to control entrophy through feedback. Both of them have sensory receptors as one stage of their cycle of operation: that is, in both of them there exists a special apparatus for collecting information from the outer world at low energy levels, and for making it available in the operation of the individual or machine. In both cases these external messages are not taken neat, but through the internal transforming powers of the apparatus, whether it be alive or dead. The information is then turned into a new form available for the further stages of performance....This complex of behaviour is ignored by the average man, and in particular does not play the role that it should in our habitual analysis of society; for just as individual physical responses may be seen from this point of view, so may the organic responses of society itself. I do not mean that the sociologist is unaware of the existence and complex nature of communications in society, but until recently he has tended to overlook the extent to which they are the cement which binds its fabric together."

(Extracted from The Human Use of Human Beings, 1950. Author's italics, my bold.)

For those watching for bells and whistles announcing our effect on the 'control system', I hope that Wiener will aid in the understanding that we have, already, in the course of our discussions, as well as beyond them, already begun facilitating change. Bear that in mind, keep your chins up and most of all, be positive.

Ta, ta for now

a reply to: KilgoreTrout

Yay YOU!! Hopefully (maybe in a pm?) you'll share your new adventure. I'm excited for you, and KNOW without a doubt you will kick butt! Other interesting stuff in that post, that I'm looking forward to digging into.

(-------------------------0-------------------------)

That is officially the biggest cyber hug I have ever given. Did you feel it?

a reply to: KilgoreTrout

I, too, am very happy for you and hope your studies go well. I know you will take whatever you learn and do the best with it, and any study will be further informed by your wonderful mind. We are desperately in need of good minds applied to any study, for the future of us all.

But I'd like to point this little trick out, within Wiener's analogy, recognizing, of course, that it's only an analogy…
However, regardless of that fact, this fact still remains: Cement is the antithesis of forward movement.
Regards,
Tetra

This thread has come full circle from the ET, UT and to the IT (Inter terrestrial) and
from the macro to the micro…to the mystical to the scientific and finally from the intuitive to the intellectual.

Control is an interesting and universal concept that has to do with systems of the Holon
(Entity) and the Holarchy (system of Holons).www.integralworld.net...

I define this as a world within worlds as the fundamental essence of reality which determines the station and the state of consciousness) feeling).

Within that conceptual framework, ontologically speaking, there is a reality that one essence is Lord of all the Holarchies and Holons: Lord of all the worlds (knowledge’s).

The question in our midst evolves around the possibility that the ET is at the same time within our world and without it at the same time: think Solar System and Galaxy and think what happens when a Solar System gets perverted or unbalanced by a change in it’s Holarchy that produces ( negative energy)=suffering and becomes finite( stuck)...

This examination of control systems must take into account of the metaphysical idea of the extension of being( jinn) within the Holarchy that makes its examination paramount by existing Holons…Established order versus New Order or Corruption (creation)…
Experiment and change. Or finite versus infinite.

“Seek Knowledge though it be in China”
Muhammad

originally posted by: corsair00
a reply to: The GUT

A rare sighting of The GUT has just occurred!

I monitor you, you know! hahahaha jk

What do you think about the fact that your Vallee thread is still going after almost a year? Pretty impressive!

Hey, soul brother! How u be do? Great, I hope! I don't feel monitored, I feel loved haha.

Yes, I am amazed at this little thread. I even have hopes that having lasted this long, and produced so much incredibly awesome discussion/research, that just maybe it might be a gathering spot for our little family for a long time. Even if I get into debates with some here, I've got their back and/or cheer em' on in other various threads! I think the longtimers here are pretty bonded. At least that's how I feel. We've shared a lot, eh?

Here's a clue for the lot of you who think you've got this phenomena all figured out from your keyboards...

Until you get OUT INTO THE WORLD , wearing out a passport(or two), dozens of recording devices, and a couple pairs of good shoes, you'll never really know what's happening...

It just won't be settled by Google, ATS, or anywhere else online.

While it certainly makes sense to report what you actually discover, the interviews you actually have with the people who are involved, and any bit of evidence you may come across, until you get to know those who you write about on a human to human level it's all LITERATURE.

And to that I would say, "Thanks for all the fish!"



Springer...

a reply to: Springer

Coming from someone slamming their own website, Springer, I'm not sure what to make of that.

As far as the phenomena goes, I'd say you're indubitably right! However, I have sincere doubt that you have the phenomena aced either, in spite of worn-out shoes and tape recorders. (I knew you had done some field research, but I didn't know you had done that much.)

As far as the intelligence apparatus purposely pandering fake stories about E.T, then I'd disagree. it's not even debatable. You know that. Whether that's always a good thing or stinks like dead fish (you're welcome, btw!) admittedly gets a little trickier. Not that tricky in some cases, though, depending on one's worldview and personal ethic. Just for a quick example, I'll trot out poor American patriot Bennewitz once more, God rest his soul. Who were the "good guys" there?

I don't believe some of those peripherally referred to here--or the USG as a whole--have much real insight into the totality of the phenomena either. They sure know how to prostitute it for their own various psy-ops purposes I'll grant. Those of the so-called Aviary who I consider the most "potent" seem to have a continued interest in non-locality. How much of that may have been confirmed while working the science arm of the intelligence apparat--or is more a reflection of their seemingly lifelong interest in new age philosophies--is hard to say.

Among those who have worn out many more pairs of shoes in the pursuit, is the topic of this thread. He's had quite a bit to say about this particular subject, and his personal accounts of skullduggery not only ring true, but I'd say he's an insider that would be in a pretty good position to know of that which he speaks.

a reply to: The GUT

Every time you make these references or someone else makes them:

s far as the intelligence apparatus purposely pandering fake stories about E.T, then I'd disagree. it's not even debatable. You know that. Whether that's always a good thing or stinks like dead fish (you're welcome, btw!) admittedly gets a little trickier.

I shiver, and continually wonder why I even bother. "Not even debatable?" It amazes me anyone's mind is that closed, and that anyone is that sure about anything, especially when it comes to pandering and intelligence agencies.
I suppose I should have known better long ago.
tetra