Dr. Jacques Vallee ~ The Control System

a reply to: KilgoreTrout

I was learning all the pieces and factors
involved with why people act the way
that they do, as from my perspective
they were ALL acting bat excrement
crazy.

When I began my studies in earnest at
the age of eight, I was leaning towards
'spiritual hypothesis' for various
reasons. I did know science 2-3 years
ahead of my grade level, but ya know
it was in the 60's in a one horse town
so I certainly didn't have 'scientific'
data worth a hoot at the time...of course
things like evolutionary psychology
hadn't been invented yet!

Of course I didn't know that I had
'high functioning autism' until I was
diagnosed at the age of 41.

So the 'monstrousness' was part real
(my step father did threaten to kill me
and beat me...and I was molested and
what not) - but it was part not entirely
real --- for example I consider lying
absolutely monstrous; but the world
considers lying 'normal' and in fact
generally 'required' on a frequent
basis.

So part of the issue was in fact me -
I did not 'belong' on liars planet..
but here I am.

So after many years I discovered that
maybe 80% of 'what's wrong with
humans' is not 'metaphysical at all'.

That left the 20%; and some of that
involves the 'high strangeness' aspects
which are difficult to research and
pin down at this time.

As for offense.....well I leave that
with you..... I was just explaining
that after all that lifetime of
research your comment was
not helpful in my view..

It's all good.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Humans, in my limited experience, are creatures of lies. The ability to lie gracefully is considered a pillar of adulthood in most societies I know of.

We lie to ourselves, and most of all to others about ourselves.

It usually stems from insecurity... with or without actual reason.

Either it's a sickness/corruption OR it's how we're 'meant' to be... maybe we're groomed for being this realm's storytellers, adept at metaphor as we are... or we have a many tendrilled CS manipulating us... or something else weirder than that... and/or we're just frightened, insecure ape-men trying to muddle through.

But boy, do we (in general) lie.

Fermilab is now conducting experiments to see if we are living in a lie... a simulated reality.

These two points seemed related and relevant to the thread... but it might be a lie.

a reply to: Baddogma

Definitely.

I did an analysis for more than a year, on the one question,
"If human's stopped lying, to themselves and others, would that
'fix' much of the world's issues?".

Honesty takes no time, no money, and little or no effort, once
you become honest that is -- and it's a golden panacea that
would solve, directly or indirectly --- eventually ---- all ills.

But humans won't do it.

Of course humans are genetically predisposed to lie, apparently.

Kev

originally posted by: Baddogma
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Humans, in my limited experience, are creatures of lies. The ability to lie gracefully is considered a pillar of adulthood in most societies I know of.

We lie to ourselves, and most of all to others about ourselves.

It usually stems from insecurity... with or without actual reason.

Either it's a sickness/corruption OR it's how we're 'meant' to be... maybe we're groomed for being this realm's storytellers, adept at metaphor as we are... or we have a many tendrilled CS manipulating us... or something else weirder than that... and/or we're just frightened, insecure ape-men trying to muddle through.

But boy, do we (in general) lie.

Fermilab is now conducting experiments to see if we are living in a lie... a simulated reality.

These two points seemed related and relevant to the thread... but it might be a lie.

I just wanted to say to you and KPB, that I think your perception of this may be a little harsh….in that, if we are living in an augmented reality, and further, as you describe, then it follows that it's a "lie," born into that scenario, we are actually then predisposed to lie, for in such a place where everyone around you is doing the same, it becomes a matter of your very survival, at times, to do so. It's like having a physical malady, a genetic problem, you are born with, where in order to survive with it, you must use a cane or other device to get by….

It's not the analogy I would prefer, but I will think of a better one and return with it. Simply put, if everyone else says the sky is green, but I see it is clearly blue, but I insist it's green, eventually the majority who have agreed it's green will say I am mentally deficient somehow, for I perceive everything, including color, differently…so I must be crazy. In order to get along in that atmosphere I had nothing to do with creating, I have to lie, so I am not perceived as crazy….

So, I think you're being a little hard of "humans." In truth, I think terminology like "human" and "alien" is something we need to take a hard look at, if you think about it. For there are plenty of threads here, and information as to whether we came from here, how we were created, etc. And that, therefore, calls into question what "alien" really means, doesn't it? If we weren't originally from here, then we are alien to the environment, the planet, as well….

I am careful about these terms and this line of thinking because I think part of the "test" of this augmented simulation may be to reject what and who we are, therefore acquiescing or giving tacit approval to our own destruction, in favor of a transhumanist, or other augmented humanity form of life, increasing the engineering which has made us reject whom we are, to begin with…

See how that works?
Regards to you both,
Tetra

a reply to: tetra50

I quite understand your position.

And.. I understand that those words about lying are 'hard ones'.

I also understand that our slave race (that's effectively what the
99% at least have become) cannot help but to use the tools
built into them, in order to survive.

But it's why I brought up "Dante's Inferno".

The only way to 'escape' is 'out the bottom of hell"
and then up and out to 'heaven'.

No matter how hard it would be to discard the lying
nature we are constructed with.. that is the ONLY
way..

Yes, honesty seems like death and destruction
to humans.. but it's the only exit from the control
loop.

The only way to win some games is not to play.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

The only way to win some games is not to play.

Many years ago, I had a wise counselor who said to me, "If every man who asks you out takes you to the same dance, what do you do?" The answer, of course, is: Stop dancing.

We were discussing something a little different, but in the end it all amounts to the same life struggle, really. On that basis, I frequently wonder about my own participation, even, here, for it seems like a major dancehall, really.
I wonder, did you ever see the movie, "They Shoot Horses, Don't They?" I find it a great example of many things discussed on ATS, in general, if you haven't seen it. And it certainly applies to what we are discussing, and much of what has been disseminated, hereabouts. It certainly illustrates clearly my point here about the environment we are born into, what tools we must utilize to survive it, no matter what is inherent in us as a species, or learned because of the need to survive, manipulation and what is deemed "nature," but may, in fact, not be at all…

Anyway, Dante's Inferno is most certainly applicable in what you have said here, and the issues being discussed. Perhaps Beatrix will fix all our blindness…

tetra

That is if we have a dormant divine nature which can take the place of the lying nature.

How would one do that? All we know is the spiritual paths which themselves have been corrupted. A catch 22 situation, indeed.

As if we all got on an elevator and got stuck on the 13th floor…ha ha

Then we find out there is no 13th floor the builders are superstitious!

originally posted by: Willtell
That is if we have a dormant divine nature which can take the place of the lying nature.

How would one do that? All we know is the spiritual paths which themselves have been corrupted. A catch 22 situation, indeed.

As if we all got on an elevator and got stuck on the 13th floor…ha ha

Then we find out there is no 13th floor the builders are superstitious!

The whole magician's trick of classifying things as 'divine' is at the heart of
the control loop.

Classify even one particle or image as 'divine' and all other particles,
all other images become 'not divine'.

When nearly everything becomes 'not divine' (because you can see it with
your eyes), then you have, by this one act of magician's deception ---
been cast into 'hell on earth'.

Kev

a reply to: tetra50

I haven't seen that movie..

As for ATS .. there are many motives for posting here.. or just reading here..
but one way or another, everyone (imho) among other motives, is seeking
to clarify their thoughts and feelings so that they can become more comfortable
with themselves and the world .. when there is precious little comfort to be
found in either.

;-)

Kev

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear

originally posted by: Willtell
That is if we have a dormant divine nature which can take the place of the lying nature.

How would one do that? All we know is the spiritual paths which themselves have been corrupted. A catch 22 situation, indeed.

As if we all got on an elevator and got stuck on the 13th floor…ha ha

Then we find out there is no 13th floor the builders are superstitious!

The whole magician's trick of classifying things as 'divine' is at the heart of
the control loop.

Classify even one particle or image as 'divine' and all other particles,
all other images become 'not divine'.

When nearly everything becomes 'not divine' (because you can see it with
your eyes), then you have, by this one act of magician's deception ---
been cast into 'hell on earth'.

Kev

My good friend, qualities are divine not strata of material

The term divine refers to the fact of developmental phenomenon. One doesn’t have to term a baby as evil, merely undeveloped, and if and when they develope or evolve into the divine then it becomes a symbol of completion or perfection of that development nothing more or nothing less.

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: tetra50

I haven't seen that movie..

As for ATS .. there are many motives for posting here.. or just reading here..
but one way or another, everyone (imho) among other motives, is seeking
to clarify their thoughts and feelings so that they can become more comfortable
with themselves and the world .. when there is precious little comfort to be
found in either.

;-)

Kev

Absolutely, and I found that so beautiful, KPB, I quoted you, again.

The movie is good, though. Painful, but very good and worth watching.
I find comfort, often, in your words, here. Just so you know. Sometimes just understanding of the human condition in each of us can be a huge comfort…
tetra

a reply to: tetra50

I'm glad.

Kev

a reply to: Willtell

We will have to agree to disagree, and that's OK.

But if it makes you feel any better, i have no issue with 'first principles',
and if you want to call those 'divine', I can sympathize with that.

however the word 'divine' is at the heart of the control loop; one of the
most brilliant ploys to keep humans confused and powerless of all
time.

By defining fake platonic or spiritual / religious 'superior realities and principles'
we are transformed from what we could be, to the nearly brainless food
animals that we have become.

In my opinion of course.

And it's not just spirituality and religion which are the control collars, but nearly
every long-term system in this world, including financial and political ones.

We are presented with say 10,000 false systems and 1trillion false ideas. and we are
then encouraged to pick any of them we wish and this is our 'free will'.

What most people pick as their 'method of liberation' is in fact that which robs them
of their individuality and freedom and makes them stupid food animals for those
privy to the ways of the magician's tricks.

Extracting oneself from this can only be accomplished by throwing out ALL of what
culture has generated, and starting fresh for yourself.

Learning to think for oneself is the hardest thing in the world.

The greatest gift humans have --- the ability to build upon the successes of others
who came before them, is also their fatal flaw which allows the control collar to
be held firmly in place, century after century.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear


Divine to me is a word that has meaning only to describe the highest state or station in a given context. Generally relative to religious science.

That’s all

When they asked Buddha who was he after enlightenment he didn’t say I am divine

He said I am awake

So much for the divine…eh

As for the control loop. Well it seems to me that control one way or another is a part of out existence…not necessarily bad in itself…just a part of reality.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear
i'm still having a very hard time with this, especially on a thread where the given topic that's [mostly] been discussed is the control loop, and its overwhelming insidious and seemingly inescapable grip on everything and everyone's life.

Of course humans are genetically predisposed to lie, apparently.

In such an atmosphere, if the control loop is a real thing, then I don't see how anyone can label any behavior, much less any like scientific conclusion about genetics and predispositions…..The very environment could very well be predisposed, planned, etc. That's what a control loop effectively does: it forces and controls behavior, to make it appear to be genetic or inherent. That's sort of the whole point, isn't it?
tetra

a reply to: Willtell

Defining 'highest' makes people yearn for some otherworldly thing,
rather than to live life the way it really is.

It's the very essence of why we are prisoners of the control loop..

Concepts are deadly.

The 'Buddha' (supposedly a conflation of at least 5 different people
over hundreds of years) understood this well. That's why questions
to 'him' about things like 'soul' and 'after life' went nowhere..

It's only later, that Buddhism became an instrument of the control
system too (more harmful than helpful).

I know this all sucks.. we are evolved/modified to 'yearn for the
divine' --- but what we get is the control collar placed on us..

Thanks for discussing..

Kev

a reply to: tetra50

Tetra,

you really struggle with what's real and what's not real.. and of course that too
can be a trap! Yah, it sucks. I fully understand.

There's only a few things i can say, after a full lifetime of dealing with this
consciously.

1) We will never know what is real and what is not real.

2) Our brain yearns for what is real so much, that it will force us to accept 'nonsense'
as 'real', just so that we don't have NO ANSWER to the ultimate questions and drive
ourselves crazy. This is why it is said, that we are 'designed for God and religion'
and in this sense we are..

3) Nothing real reduces to black and white (good or evil). Good and evil and 'God/spiritual'
are the 3 major words used to keep us as brainless cattle to be fed upon.

4) Anything heavily promoted by society is part of the control loop.

5) Anything universally hated by society, such as genuine honesty, thinking for oneself,
and things like that --- probably aren't.. for example the catholic church spent more than
800 years burning libraries...viable third parties in America.. food without additives..
it's amusing what is hated and suppressed sometimes..

6) Be loving, kind, honest and brave at all cost.. do not fear confrontation, unpopularity
or 'death' --- and the chains start to fall off... it is fear and the need for certainty which
keeps us prisoner.

7) Stop trying to catch 'god' in the act. She's the FIRST STAGE MAGICIAN. When you start
to see the 'magician's tricks' you start to understand the nature of things.. at least 'this'
particular layer.

Kev

nm

nm, again. sorry for taking up space….

a reply to: tetra50

Of all things, I was watching a Karla Turner youtube. Now, her presentation
comes across as rational in tone. The content ... er.. a bit whack-a-doodle,
but who am I to talk?

But she said one thing that I agree with 100%, that I thought you might
appreciate.

She said that there is 'something the "aliens" are afraid of' within humans.

I totally agree.

It's almost like humans could 'pull rank' on the control loop critters, if only
they knew they HAD that 'rank'; but of course humans have been trained
to defile themselves by believing in 'original sin' and other schemes to
keep the human cattle totally dehumanized and under control.

There *IS* something potent in humans.. at least potentially... I've always
known 'it'. But to 'get there' you have to break away from human culture
entirely. Most people aren't willing to do it.. and then to be *useful*
you need to rejoin culture, without becoming corrupted by it.

Not easy.

Just thought I'd mention.

I don't like how gloomy the world appears either.. but people are determined
to maintain this world just as it is, out of fear, brain-washing and a lack of
imagination I guess.... and a desire to have quick answers rather than to do
the required research, which often means math/science or at least learning
how to think for oneself, not swallow some potent lie from the past.

Kev