An Open Letter to Lovers of the Gun

mikegrouchy

muzzleflash
I Googled FBI homicide statistics:

FBI Expanded Homicide Data Table

2007 - 2008 - 2009 - 2010 - 2011
Total firearms: 10,129 - 9,528 - 9,199 - 8,874 - 8,583


The vast majority of which were handguns.

Are these numbers decreasing or increasing? Can anyone tell?

edit on 24-1-2014 by muzzleflash because: (no reason given)

edit on 24-1-2014 by muzzleflash because: (no reason given)

So ... the OP-ed in the opening post ... lied.

Thank you for the actual stats MuzzleFlash.

Mike

edit on 25-1-2014 by mikegrouchy because: (no reason given)

Lied - just what was a lie? Each and every incidence of school shootings referenced in the cited article is a fact and a easily verifiable one at that. No lies there.

As to the opinions of the article's author and my comments - they were opinions and therefore, by definition, cannot be lies.

GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by FyreByrd

 

Id have to have him list the shootings. The other day a friend of mine posted there was another school shooting but it was a guy who killed another guy on a campus. It wasn't random, it was a straight up murder at a university. I dont consider that a school shooting.

edit on 25-1-2014 by GogoVicMorrow because: (no reason given)

He did list the shootings. The salient point being 'school shootings', not motive just the behavoir.

rock427
Answer me this OP. Aren't schools "gun free zones"? It's against the law to bring a gun on school grounds. Yet that hasn't stopped people from breaking that law. Now please explain how you expect law breakers to automatically follow laws that limit guns?

Your heart might be in the right place, but your head most certainly is not! You cannot take your subjective viewpoint and force it down other people's throats and expect them to see it your way. A gun is a great thing for self defense and hunting. Who are you (let alone the bleeding heart liberal author you used in your OP) to tell me; a law abiding citizen, what I can and can't use to defend myself with?

It truly pisses me off that people like you, and that delirious author, seem to think you know what's best for me and the rest of society. If a gun isn't for you, that is YOUR choice. You are well within your rights. However, so am I. I need no further explanation as to why I need or want a gun. As for you and that author, I leave you with this expression. Go kick rocks.

Once more, I am not trying to force anything down any ones throat. You are choosing to participate.

And you do help make my point about easily accesable guns in the home. Yes firearms are mostly illegal in public places and 'the law' is not solving the problem. There I agree it is all our responsibility to help solve the problem.

reply to post by FyreByrd


I am appalled at your short sightedness and irresponsibility of your family and yourself when you support your idea and stupidity about guns.

What some other ATS members have said about owning a car, and the results of having one your notion seems moot and belittled.

My question to you OP, let me pose a very serious and realistic problem with your rights if held in the highest responsibility as a adult. Please take your time to answer....
I do not want to assume, but let me take you into a uncomfortable situation please. Let's say you have a teenage daughter or son and they somehow, successful or not come by a horrible and dangerous girlfriend/boyfriend. One night your sitting around the dinner table with your parents, siblings, nephews, ETC. This current or ex BF/GF starts getting into a violent conversation with your child. And pulls out a gun, or maybe even another weapon. And shoots, stabs, hurts, or kills your child in near or in front of you. That's not all. The rampage gets worse as he/she comes after more of your family....

What do you do. Now to make the choice harder on you. The 911 call could take a minimum of a hour for police to show up. What is your life expectancy to be. Can you give a honest answer? What if the maniac was coming after you and your knife-in-hand suddenly wasn't enough, and you know it's certain death or critical injury. You seem the type of person to leave your family with your tail up between your legs and leave them all behind to save your ass from what I've read

Now most likely this won't happen, but this is the case most Americans carry or own. BUT! It is up to the gun owner to be absolutely, and coherent in the responsibility to have one or many. I can almost guarantee that anyone who acts with correct training with gun ownership responsibility 9 out of 10 are safe and considered IMO great to have in our community.

Now if you will not own, buy, or train to have a gun......(I repeat this on every gun thread) Nobody in America wants to here your pissy, whiney, excuse why your hurt, and can't understand why nobody took care of this. I.E. bad education, government, local whatever...

THIS IS YOUR LIFE, BE A PERSON OF RESPONSIBILITY AND TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF AND YOUR FAMILY.

STOP BEING A LITTLE B****, AND RELYING ON OTHERS TO TAKE CARE OF YOU.

Your thread is a pointless and a pathetic excuse to get support from weak minded people.

I will be pleased to tell any other against my post to really think hard, really hard before replying.


You are welcome. And obviously I am not the only one on this thread that thinks your opinion is a sad state of affairs.



guns are allowed in public more than not. Very few and important places don't. If people in my city were stopped to see who was carrying, anyone over 21 would be almost 9 out of ten... Then again I would never in my life visit a big city. I'm utterly disgusting when I have too visit one. I ship my gun where ever I go in America. Or buy one there quickly. I would move to another country. But any tht will not allow me to own a gun is off my list, however the crime rate.

FyreByrd

rock427
Answer me this OP. Aren't schools "gun free zones"? It's against the law to bring a gun on school grounds. Yet that hasn't stopped people from breaking that law. Now please explain how you expect law breakers to automatically follow laws that limit guns?

Your heart might be in the right place, but your head most certainly is not! You cannot take your subjective viewpoint and force it down other people's throats and expect them to see it your way. A gun is a great thing for self defense and hunting. Who are you (let alone the bleeding heart liberal author you used in your OP) to tell me; a law abiding citizen, what I can and can't use to defend myself with?

It truly pisses me off that people like you, and that delirious author, seem to think you know what's best for me and the rest of society. If a gun isn't for you, that is YOUR choice. You are well within your rights. However, so am I. I need no further explanation as to why I need or want a gun. As for you and that author, I leave you with this expression. Go kick rocks.

Once more, I am not trying to force anything down any ones throat. You are choosing to participate.

And you do help make my point about easily accesable guns in the home. Yes firearms are mostly illegal in public places and 'the law' is not solving the problem. There I agree it is all our responsibility to help solve the problem.

I'm sorry, that star was meant for the person you quoted. Damn I wish I could undo that.

I understand the arguments from both sides, and think neither is completely right or wrong.

But I would like to point out a discrepancy in an argument from the pro-gun side regarding the idea of the things most of us own killing, in some cases, even more people than guns do. Like cars, knives, chemical cleaners, etc. They say "So why don't we ban those too?" .

Well, there is a big difference between all these objects and guns. The purpose of a gun is usually to kill (not always, but that doesn't matter here). Some are even designed specifically to kill as many people as fast as possible. Yes, a car, chemical cleaners, and the like are able to kill, but are definitely not designed for that purpose. I will leave hunting-type knives in the middle.

I think we can say that the closer an item's design fits your goal (killing), and the more readily it is available to you, the more likely you are to fulfill that goal. And then there are all the accidents of course.

I'm all for the 2nd, but I don't see much point to it as long as the citizens do not have the same amount of fire-power as their government. You know, like jet fighters, drones, missiles and nukes...

I can however see the importance of armed citizens in defense of other citizens or themselves. But much depends on the details of the situation.

I would also like to add that I have lived both in the US and in Europe, and the difference in gun culture is HUGE! There is no gun culture here in Europe as far as I can see. You will rarely hear a conversation about guns here. Even the police rarely fire their guns. It's main news when it does happen, even when no-one is injured. So to me, it is clear how much of a role the culture plays and how the media keep it alive. That's what the focus should be on.

soulwaxer

Gun crimes are down however the Media Hyper reporting of every gun crime creates the notion of increased gun crime.

reply to post by soulwaxer


the problem isn't items that can kill, but people who can kill.

bigfatfurrytexan
reply to post by soulwaxer

 

the problem isn't items that can kill, but people who can kill.

I've just recently had a heated discussion with friends from work about "crazy Americans and their guns" as it was put.

People do forget that shootings have happened here in Montreal in the past along with other parts of the world, Alaska, Germany, Argentina, Finland just to name a few, and yes, other parts of Canada as well.

As a man NOT owning a gun, and as a Canadian, here is my opinion.

Guns DO NOT kill people. People DO.

when will this small minded argument end? its getting old. really old.

do you drive a car? your chances of dying from a car crash have increased!
do you eat food? your chances of choking have increased!

are you currently alive and breathing? then your chances of dying have also increased!

its sad people even discuss this stuff, but to get so passionate over it is just depressing....

i have a serious question for everybody who relies on police to save them in dangerous situations.

what do you do when the power is out? because where i live thats when most burglaries occur.

oh...your cell phone?

have you ever seen one of these? are you aware of how easy they are to create? the parts are readily available at radioshack.

your more vulnerable than you think.

reply to post by FyreByrd


Here is a scenario, having only gotten rid of the gun's but the insane are still with us, we have a person that takes a large truck and during recess at some school he drive's in to the play ground and run's over everyone he can. How many kids do you think this person will kill before the police come and kill him with there gun's.

Or do the police in your world have guns ?

What happens every time there is a shooting? It's all over the news. Every news outlet from NPR to Fox News goes on and on and on about it. Why then are people so surprised by them? Although the intention may not be to glorify the violence, to the psychopath it is glorified. That is why there seem to be so many. It's an instant road to fame... or infamy. Whatever the case, maybe we should look at how such situations are handled and not the tool that was used.

I leave you with a question. If I was to get in my car and drive it onto a football field hosting a graduation and began to run down the graduates, what do you think the outcome would be? Would it get the same amount of attention as if I had done the same with a gun? If it did, do you think that we'd see more car-related murders. I think that we would.

As far as firearm ownership, I am all for it. Firearm ownership should be a privilege of responsible adults. The irresponsible adults are the problem. Many teach their child or children to handle and shoot a firearm as earlier as five years old. Also, many allow the child have a rifle or shotgun with ammunition in a closet in their room and some let the child have a pistol tucked away in a drawer in their bedroom.

Later in life when the child or children reach puberty, the hormones start kicking in and who knows what will happen. Does a child need access to a firearm in the home? I would say absolutely not.

In these times there are more firearms owners because of all the hype that as been generated over the last couple of decades. With a higher availability comes a higher incident rate.

You say you use to be a gun advocate, now that you have kids you have changed your tune? I will say that is true American style, but your kids, my neighbor's even my family's kids have no bearing on my opinion of gun ownership. Every time a gun is used improperly/illegally, it wasn't stored properly. Do you have any idea how many time alcohol was used illegally by under aged children leading to death? (and not of just their own death)
When our government doesn't want it's people to own guns, that's about the time you know you really need guns.
Good luck with all that....

Naïve and delusional at best.
A gun is a tool, much like a Hammer. They both can be use for fun and both for killing.
The Hammer is a blunt object and has more kills to its name then gun’s in domestic violence..
I have never and I bet no one on earth has, seen a gun on a table jump up and shot someone.

If you fear guns, go get some education on the safe use of them.
You Sir I fear are part of the uninformed and fall to fear mongering …
If you fear your kids will shoot someone, teach them gun safety!
If that fails then sad to say they were going to do it anyway.

reply to post by FyreByrd


Guns don't kill people... People kill people.

The problem isn't the guns. The problem is the people.

"More cars kill people than guns"

"Are you happy to see me or is that a Ford Explorer in your pocket"


Guess I can hide my car in my waistband too.

This is apples to oranges, NOT a valid comparison.

Fine, I didn't ask you to keep them ,now kindly step away and leave MINE alone and don't stop MY people from having them.



In fact: If you have a gun in your home that frightens you and YOU are it's owner. Please give it to a friend you trust, who does have them or the nearest veteran.

reply to post by FyreByrd


I am one of the largest firearm dealers in Arizona. I sell (legally) almost 1000 guns a month. Over the last few years i have literally armed thousands of people. People who pass background checks. I also take very (emphasis) seriously my duty as a firearm retailer to curb straw purchases and to ensure paperwork is being filled out correctly with proper ID ect...

Being said. I have interacted with thousands of gun owners or potentional gun owners. They have almost an exclusive concern when making their purchase... their safety and the safety of the ones they care about.

You sir, are people i despise. Not because you are anti-gun, but because you and others like you take zero personal responsiblity for anything in your life.

Left ideals concerning healthcare, regulation, gun ownership, ect all have a root problem that a collective of people wish to disregard their personal responsibility for health, safety, and finances by voting in laws which ultimatly are enforced with guns (ironic?)

99% of gun owners make their purchase as an insurance policy against the potentional threat of true violence against themselves or those they love. Every single living creature on planet earth has the right given by nature/god/the force to defend themselves against unwarrented violent attacks.

Any safety precaution taken beyond those by the individual themself is theater.

The world is an unsafe place and nature makes it this way, to think otherwise is niave and ignorant. No one has a right to safety no matter where/what/circumstance.