An Open Letter to Lovers of the Gun

FyreByrd
I wanted to share this letter....

In several threads, I've heard from members that violence is decreasing in the USA. I'm not certain where those statistics are coming from or how they define violence; but I think we will all agree that shootings at schools fall into the catagory of violence.

This article, letter, if you will, by William Rivers Pitt shares some easily verifible statistics on recent school shootings. He is citing facts.

truth-out.org...

I said this on New Year's Day: "In 2010, by comparison, there were nine school shootings in America that killed seven people. In 2011, there were eleven school shootings that killed nine people. In 2012, there were fourteen school shootings - including the massacres at Sandy Hook Elementary and Oikos University - that killed 43 people. In 2013, there were twenty-three school shootings that killed nineteen people. Nine, then eleven, then fourteen, then twenty-three. If the trend holds, we can look forward to maybe thirty or forty school shootings in 2014."
I was wrong. Seven school shootings in the first month of the year means we are on pace, if this keeps up, to have no less than 84 school shootings by the end of December.

And then, he gets upset (it is an op-ed after all - an opionion/editorial)

Yes, you, who love your guns.
You.
I would ask what is wrong with you, but I already know: you love your guns more than you love your child, or his child, or her child, or my child. You love your guns, period.
Prove me wrong, because you haven't yet.

I am sick of how you hide behind gun money, gobs and gobs of political gun money, while complaining about the influence of money in politics. If any other item in common use in America - like aspirin, or a car - was wasting people with the dreary regularity of guns, that item would be banned by congressional fiat...but it's guns, so the slaughter slogs on, even as you tell your friends you hate the influence of "special interests" in politics, because you're a fraud in Technicolor.

I used to love guns, grew up with them and had fun with them. When I became a parent, I read the literature and the statistics are clear - have a gun in your home - the chances of someone in that home dying by gun go up - and put away my guns forever.

I'm not against guns, I get the 'defense against the governmnet' argument (though I think it's pretty naive in todays world), but I certainly don't want anyone I love or even those I don't dying because a gun was a seemly easy answer.

I'll end with Mr. Pitt:

I would spare you that experience. Please spare me that experience.
It is not the anti-gun people who are going to make this right. It is the pro-gun people who know better, who see this slaughter for what it is, who will make this right.
Seven school shootings in 24 days.
See. Be disgusted. Do something.

Yes I agree I wish The Powers That Were would stop using guns to do their false flag events, its just shameful the way they give guns to gans, and then kill good people then use it as an excuse to remove guns from the public.

I dont think guns are the answer anyway, when the constitution was drafted guns were at the top of the military weapons list, they wanted a well armed populous that could match the army if an overthrow of a tyrannical gov was needed. So the general population should actually be able to have any and all weapons that the state has.

reply to post by nugget1


Of course we should, but those aren't sensationalized by the media, so they don't count.

Along with what others are saying, about the kids that do these shootings, you sure don't hear if they were on meds in the media much, do you? Can't go against big pharma.

Guns are bad, gun makers are evil... blah blah blah.

reply to post by FyreByrd

When I became a parent, I read the literature and the statistics are clear - have a gun in your home - the chances of someone in that home dying by gun go up - and put away my guns forever.

Or

When I became a parent, I read the literature and the statistics are clear - have bleach in your home - the chances of someone in that home dying by poisoning go up - and put away my cleaners forever.

Or

When I became a parent, I read the literature and the statistics are clear - have stairs in your home - the chances of someone in that home dying by falling go up - and put away my stairs forever.

Or

When I became a parent, I read the literature and the statistics are clear - have knives in your home - the chances of someone in that home dying by stabbing go up - and put away my knives forever.

Yawn. I am getting really tired of people arguing from the stance of "safety."

I Googled FBI homicide statistics:

FBI Expanded Homicide Data Table

2007 - 2008 - 2009 - 2010 - 2011
Total firearms: 10,129 - 9,528 - 9,199 - 8,874 - 8,583

The vast majority of which were handguns.

Are these numbers decreasing or increasing? Can anyone tell?

A passive aggressive, gun grabbing, "child" analogy. Yes, I will still keep my gun(s).

Derelicts like this who use "Children" in analogies about sick individual(s) & school shootings are just as dangerous as a psycopath with a gun. Manipulating words and weak minded individuals to get on the "Ban Gun Bus". If you don't like guns go move to California.

If any other item in common use in America - like aspirin, or a car - was wasting people with the dreary regularity of guns, that item would be banned by congressional fiat...but it's guns

reply to post by FyreByrd

Cars kill more people every year than firearms in this country.

reply to post by AmenStop


Sir, I whole heartedly believe that "guns" are not the answer. Unfortunately how is this:

I dont think guns are the answer anyway, when the constitution was drafted guns were at the top of the military weapons list, they wanted a well armed populous that could match the army if an overthrow of a tyrannical gov was needed. So the general population should actually be able to have any and all weapons that the state has.

Any different with today's day and age? Please sir, refrain from using technology as a basis of defense. Corrupt is corrupt. Not that anyone is going to bumrush the the gov't. However that comment is very reminiscent of today's economy and state of the Union.

reply to post by borracho


And with all the regulations, and out right bans, drugs kill more people than auto accidents.

reply to post by borracho


Drunk drivers make up a part of that.

Do we ban alcohol?

What about cigarettes? They kill 5 million per year worldwide.

Why don't we ban that. Is it because only older people die from cigarettes? We don't care unless it's children dying?

Indigent
reply to post by rickymouse

 

I won't teach my two grandsons, they are playing violent video games all the time and I can't trust them with a gun...so I will never teach them.

My dad show me how to shoot at 4, i play violent video games all the time.

I'm 30 now and haven't kill anyone yet

We are talking about a small percentage of the population here, not more than one percent that this may happen to. On top of that, you were taught to shoot and respect the gun before the video games. I was about five when I got my first bb gun. I was out alone with the 22 by the time I was around ten or eleven, all my friends still weren't allowed to shoot a rifle by that age. It was because some were shooting at other kids feet with their bb guns, they weren't ready yet.

I'm willing to bet a shot and a beer that the booze/car combo kills more then dem pesky guns.

reply to post by FyreByrd


Have you ever heard of a JB weld special? Below is a full auto UZI that will be delivered to your door with no checks whatsoever. How, you ask? It is a parts kits and so not considered a firearm, but this and many like it can be assembled with only a couple tubes of JB weld or re-welded etc.. The receiver has been saw cut to facilitate an easy reassembly.
www.gunbroker.com...
and anouther
www.gunbroker.com...

Did you see the news about the citizens of Mexico taking over towns and expelling the police and gangsters? Ever wonder where they are getting the AK's? Its not from legal US sources. They are building military surplus parts kits. It may come as a surprise but I have heard more than a few times that many more parts kits exist in Mexico than in the US and I know that 10's of millions exist in the USA. All guns are 100% illegal in Mexico by the way.

AK parts kit.
www.gunbroker.com...
How to build.
www.youtube.com...

Just about any flavor you like is available, even heavy machine guns like the link below.
Bren MKII
www.gunbroker.com...
Nazi made German MG34
www.gunbroker.com...
MG 15 water cooled
www.gunbroker.com...
You can also have a myriad of Sub Machine guns.
Nice Saw cut Sten MkII
www.gunbroker.com...
PPS43 ( Notice the new receiver tube ready to cut and assemble. )
www.gunbroker.com...

I'll stop there but I could literally post thousands and thousands! Remember all of these will ship to your doorstep with no checks whatsoever. I have never met a criminal who let the risk of prison stop them, and owning a machine gun here in the USA, Mexico or in any part of the world is as easy as pie.

When the Clinton era ban took effect most of those effected just started cutting their guns and shipping in ten times as many. My point? There is no way to take the guns off our streets and your notion that new laws will solve the issue will only effect the legal gun owners. You should know that our gangs are some of the best armed on the planet. The MSM does not report on machine gun violence. They simply lump it all together and do not mention the fact that in allot of cases an illegal firearm that would have gotten the possessor 10 years and a $250,000 fine was used.

Please stop attacking the legal owners. You will never disarm the underground or rid this country of guns. You simply seek to limit law abiding citizens right to defend themselves.

You cannot legislate this problem away! You will very simply hurt the law abiding citizen and in turn empower the criminals.

Mexico outlawed all guns in an attempt to decrease gun violence. The result they got was the complete opposite. At the end of the day all power political or otherwise comes from the end of a barrel and Mexico by creating a defenseless populous handed the cartels the keys to the kingdom.

reply to post by FyreByrd


Your post is a perfect example that guns are not the problem. Our people are sick and the symptoms of the sickness are easiest to see in our children.

We are trying to place people into a box, a form, a conveyor belt of one size fits all and if you don't fit we will force you to fit; and these kids are snapping at the stress because it is not natural. Placing people on pills when they display the slightest evidence of mediocrity or displeasure of the one size fits all system is not going to end well. It is tyranny; and people snap under tyranny which why why tyrants take away the guns...every single time.

Did Billy get a C in phoenix or arithmetic? Can't have that! Billy must excel in the box we are shoving him into! Here give Billy this Adderall thrice daily! For years Billy forces his mind into the one size fits all box his mind naturally rejects; and the day he snaps, you blame the guns. Sorry, kids have been around guns in America for generations; it's only with the recent generations of children where things like Columbine have occurred. The cause is not guns, they've always been there, the cause is that we have youth willing to revolt against a system their minds are rejecting.

How many of these shootings didn't involve the shooter having a history with SSRIs, MAOIs, or Tricyclics?

You want to stop the shootings? Some kids are not meant for academia, stop forcing them into it because it's making them snap. Apprenticeships come to mind.

reply to post by FyreByrd


I wholly agree with and endorse his sentiment that we should all be disgusted and DO something. I, for one, will start by blaming people and not things. Things do not shoot people, nor do things rampage schools. People do.

Why do people do this? I can conjecture with the best of them....but a real answer isn't going to come easy to anyone. Even Mr. Pitts.

But if i were to start conjecturing, I would probably look first for the mental health expenses by state (on a per capita basis) and then compare that information to shootings. I might also want to compare the socialogical similarities between states with more shootings to determine trends. Because this didn't happen back when gun control was less stringent. This is a relatively new phenomena. And that, alone, tells me that removing guns from the equation is not the answer. Because when guns more an even bigger part of the equation, school shootings weren't happening.

Mr. Pitts makes an understandable knee jerk reaction However, to a person who examines things a little, there is absolutely no logic in what he proposes. And supporting my opinion is his employment of the 'its for the children" fallacy.

No, this isn't a discussion to be had about guns. its about people. Until you treat a disease instead of a symptom, the illness will never go away.

The single designed purpose of a gun is to kill.

Not much more needs to be said really... we still live in a society were a significantly large industries' only purpose is to make things to kill and maim people.

I don't see how having an industry and social mindest like that will ever lead to a peaceful world.

... but each to their own... if i'm lucky, myself and those I love will never be victim to someone with a gun.

Alright...lets go there. Here is the truth in my opinion. It is 100%, completely and without argument possible to protect any person from everything. Car accidents, falling down, falling in the tub, catching a disease, cutting their finger, getting shot, getting hooked on drugs, etc. Even if you take a person, wrap them in bubble wrap and don't allow them to leave a padded cell, they can't be protected from everything. And if you could...you would have to remove everything from their reach.

Guns are a weapon...I get it. They are meant to injure and/or kill. I get it. So are knives, swords, poison, etc. You can outlaw guns and then turn your attention to knives then turn your attention to drugs then turn your attention to poison. But there will always be something that can kill you. And again...you can't protect someone from everything. The question is...I guess...where you stop?

Drugs (heroin, crack, etc.) kill more people and destroy more lives than guns. So do car accidents. The logic is flawed if you want to take away guns. You can claim "you don't need a gun", but while you may not...others do. I have a gun. I have a gun because I live in the woods and bears, mountain lions, etc. have been in my yard. There is also crime in our area and I have a family and pets to protect. If my daughter is playing in the front yard and a bear comes up and decides to do something other than walk away...I WILL NOT be in position where my daughter may be injured or killed when having a gun COULD prevent it. COULD is in caps because in 99% of the time...I don't need the gun. But like insurance, I want it there just in case.

So...what is the solution. Well, first of all...not everything has a solution. But much like putting a bandaid on a cut, you are NOT ADDRESSING THE PROBLEM! Take away guns and you will cut down (slightly) on gun violence. THERE WILL STILL BE GUN CRIMES!!! Read that for a moment and let it sink in. Taking away guns WILL NOT stop shootings. Criminals will still have guns. You can not stop that. Hell...they will make them if they have to.

What you can address...for a change, is the problem. A society that is broken. People who have no respect for other's lives. People who are depressed or desperate. People with mental problems...but mostly society. Remember a life-time ago when people were getting killed for their expensive sneakers? You have a society that doesn't care for anyone...except YOURSELF! A society where WANT is more important. "I want a cell phone", "I want more money", "I want that car". And we are willing to steal to get it. And guess what people...carrying a gun makes that easier.

Solve THAT! Solve the problem of our society being a dump heap of trash and crap. TEACH MORALS!! Yes...I said the "M" word. Maybe you aren't that special. Maybe you don't get everything you want and maybe that is tough "S". Maybe you need to learn to live with that or decide that hard work will also get you those things...and on a more permanent basis. How about self respect? How about earning something instead of believing it should be handed to you? How about getting off your ass and doing something for your community (and in turn yourself) or other people (and in turn yourself). How about keeping your kids off the street...keeping the family together even if it is tough...how about having a functional father around...turning off the TV and talking...not worshiping idiots on the tube and allowing them to teach your children?

How about YOU...whomever YOU is, getting off your ass and instead of trying to take away someone's gun who may need it, and protest and get "Keeping up with the Kardashians" off the air? Or do you want to incorrectly teach your children that THAT is the way life either is, or should be? Bitchy, self-absorbed people who have everything are not good role models.

END OF RANT!!!

puzzlesphere
The single designed purpose of a gun is to kill.

Not much more needs to be said really... we still live in a society were a significantly large industries' only purpose is to make things to kill and maim people.

I don't see how having an industry and social mindest like that will ever lead to a peaceful world.

... but each to their own... if i'm lucky, myself and those I love will never be victim to someone with a gun.

Meanwhile, at least in the US, if we shut down the entire industry, we are still left with PEOPLE who are doing something that wasn't done in the past, and is increasing each year. So the problem will not be fixed, personal freedom will be reduced, and we eventually come back upon that can we kicked down the road.

That's not problem solving. Its procrastination.

rickymouse

Indigent
reply to post by rickymouse

 

I won't teach my two grandsons, they are playing violent video games all the time and I can't trust them with a gun...so I will never teach them.

My dad show me how to shoot at 4, i play violent video games all the time.

I'm 30 now and haven't kill anyone yet

We are talking about a small percentage of the population here, not more than one percent that this may happen to. On top of that, you were taught to shoot and respect the gun before the video games. I was about five when I got my first bb gun. I was out alone with the 22 by the time I was around ten or eleven, all my friends still weren't allowed to shoot a rifle by that age. It was because some were shooting at other kids feet with their bb guns, they weren't ready yet.

edit on 24-1-2014 by rickymouse because: (no reason given)

My 16 year old son was playing GTA Vice City when he was 3. He started shooting when he was 10. When he hunts, he carries his own rifle and 9mm sidearm (that he purchased with his own money).

I think that there isn't science supporting your viewpoint. And we can unload a ton of anecdotals from both directions.

reply to post by FyreByrd

Huh? We dont LOVE our guns. We are just smart and prepared enough to train, carry and to defend those around us as long as all the CRIMINALS have guns. Hadnt thought of that, huh?

When they no longer can get guns...I wont need mine. And your statistics prove Im right about them still comitting more and more crimes.

And those in your OP here are YOUR statistics that youve used, to prove my point. Not yours.

When you use a phrase like "gun-lovers" it shows a lack of understanding of the basic premise of ownership to begin with.

Therefore? FAIL

If you chose to have a gun and protect yourself your decision.. If you chose not to it is your decision as it should be.. Either way it is your personal decision; just don't be deciding for me

65 year old woman beats off 5 BGs... If she had not had a gun would they have left after stealing everything ?

I will post the vid of the doctor who was tied to a chair while his wife is strangled and his two daughters were raped and killed.. If he would have had a gun or if the cops would have intervened would the daughters and wife be alive ? We will never know.

BGs will use whatever they have.. Knives, hammers, screwdrivers... anything to get their way and cause harm.




18 page long criminal history ended by one home owner.. Poor misunderstood baby