Russian MFI

do you guys think that Sukhoi's Su-47 should have beaten MiG's 1.42 in russia's competition for a heavy fighter?

give me your opinions, but please base it with some facts

Plays no role, because none of them will be produced. At least Su-47 was able to make takeoff.

[edit on 23-11-2004 by longbow]

wow, u're so anti-russian and obviously have abolsutely no knowledge of russia equipment, don't shun them just because u're racistokay, both planes took off numerous times

and if i might add something, if america was ever in such an economic catastrophe as russia was in 1998, america would collapse, their military as well because u're military costs much more to maintain than the russia one(Saudi Arabia owns 7% of america)

I don't know Dima, he knows that neither plane will see service. You don't think otherwise do you? Maybe you don't know as much as you think?

Its the follow ons from these designs that Russia hopes to deploy as its new fighter, the S-37 and I.42 were just demonstrators so there couldn't be a 'winner'.

Originally posted by longbow
Plays not role, because none of them will be produced. At least Su-47 was able to make takeoff.

both are technology testbeds.

Mig MFI - Phazotron N-014 Passive Phassed Array Radar has a range of 400+ km against 6m^2 targets, 250km gainst 1m^2 targets (such as Eurofighter and Rafale) and about 140km against 0.1m^2 targets. It is able to track up to 40 targets and engage 12 at once.

Su-47 - Principle testbed for composite materials and sophisticated fly-by-wire control systems.

I love them both, though berkut IMHO is better

just look at my avatar, both MFI and Berkut


PS: both Mig MFI and Su-47 flew

Well ther cool, but the F-22 will still shoot them down. but it could the Mig 1.42 could easily shoot down anything else/

Originally posted by titus
Mig MFI - Phazotron N-014 Passive Phassed Array Radar has a range of 400+ km against 6m^2 targets, 250km gainst 1m^2 targets (such as Eurofighter and Rafale) and about 140km against 0.1m^2 targets. It is able to track up to 40 targets and engage 12 at once.

Can you provide us with a source on this?

Originally posted by engineer

Originally posted by titus
Mig MFI - Phazotron N-014 Passive Phassed Array Radar has a range of 400+ km against 6m^2 targets, 250km gainst 1m^2 targets (such as Eurofighter and Rafale) and about 140km against 0.1m^2 targets. It is able to track up to 40 targets and engage 12 at once.

Can you provide us with a source on this?

here is where i saw it first: Russian Federadion Forces Forum, toward the end of that thread

source A:
Mig MFI radar - "forward-facing radar N-014 phased array with electronically-scanned antenna - simultaneous tracking of 40 and engagement of up to 20 targets; effective range against a fighter-sized target: 420km, extended AS capability, ground mapping capability"

source B:
It (Mig MFI with forward facing N014 and rear facing N012 radar) features a 360-degree capability of detecting and destroying virtually all targets.

PS: for more info/sources just google for "Phazotron N-014"

Originally posted by Dima
wow, u're so anti-russian and obviously have abolsutely no knowledge of russia equipment, don't shun them just because u're racistokay, both planes took off numerous times

Don't take me so seriously. I am not antirussian.
Waynos has true, it's very likely that none of them will be produced.
I don't know it for sure, but I think that Mig-1.42 didn't take off. I know Mig officials were claiming that it flew for 15 mins, but it was not confirmed by ministry of defense and NO ONE (meaning some journalist or goverment representative) saw that flight. So until you prove that I'm wrong I will see Mig-1.42 just as 1:1 scale grond model.

BTW about this Phazotron radar for Mig-1.42 - I think it was just proposed, not developed.


[edit on 23-11-2004 by longbow]

Originally posted by waynos
I don't know Dima, he knows that neither plane will see service. You don't think otherwise do you? Maybe you don't know as much as you think?

Its the follow ons from these designs that Russia hopes to deploy as its new fighter, the S-37 and I.42 were just demonstrators so there couldn't be a 'winner'.

they may have been demonstrator's but if u have kept track of the project, the Russian government chose Sukhoi over MiG, thats wut i want to debate about, if u agree that the Su-47 is better than the MiG 1.42

it took off in zhukovsky base, and i thnk in msocow, both were watched by officials

well, maybe u aren't racist, but at least try not to act like u are

Originally posted by longbow
I think that Mig-1.42 didn't take off. I know Mig officials were claiming that it flew for 15 mins, but it was not confirmed by ministry of defense and NO ONE (meaning some journalist or goverment representative) saw that
flight.

Video #1
Video #2

now, do you believe that MIG MFI took off

Hi
I wonder (only because the avatar and the picture were side by side)
if the MFI and the berkut (Spelling?) are the same fusalage, tail fins, engines, and canards.

From a engineering point of veiw it makes some sense.

Just wondering.

AFAIK, the MFI project is a dead issue. Russia will get by with upgrading the SU-27 (SU-35) and Mig 29M for the next ten years or so until the Pak-fa comes online.

Pak-fa is based on the SU-47, but without the FSW. FSW looks futuristic, but has major practical problems with stress, RCS, loadouts, etc. Some of that can be got around with internal weapons carriage, but total loadout suffers.

The Mig did make 2 short flights. The airframe that flew is commonly referred to as the 1.44. The 1.42 was limited to taxi tests. The demise of the MFI was partially responsible for the cancellation of the N014 Radar development.

Originally posted by longbow
Plays no role, because none of them will be produced. At least Su-47 was able to make takeoff.

[edit on 23-11-2004 by longbow]

If I'm not mistaken (and I very well could be) The Pak-fa is going to be based on the Mig 1.42/1.44. I think that (if it is true) this would show which one would be superior.

Will make a better post with links in a few...

Well, to start out, I was probably wrong about the Pak-fa being based on the Mig, because Sukhoi is the designer.

In early 2002 Sukhoi was chosen as prime contractor for the planned Russian fifth-generation fighter is called the PAK FA

According to Mig, the 1.42 would be able to out perform the F/A-22.

Some stuff on the 1.42 from Global security:

Like the American F-22, the MFI has a thrust vectoring system that allows it to make sharp turns. It also has similar stealth capabilities, with the canard, wing and fuselage structures incorporating carbon-fiber and polymer composite materials. Other stealth features include radar-absorbing covering, screening of radar-visible structure elements, and reduced heat signature. The fifth-generation pulse-doppler radar has a phased-array andtenna with electronic scanning to simultaneously attack over 20 targets. The aircraft can carry long-range air-to-air and air-to-surface guided missiles, and it is armed with a 30-mm cannon.

GlobalSecurity.com

After reading up on it, the Mig 1.42 seems to be the better of the two. It was designed around stealth, where as the Berkut was made "stealthy" but did not have that as it's main objective. Thus, the Mig would hold the advantage in BVR combat, while the Berkut would hold the dogfighting advantage. Assuming this to be true, the Mig is the better aircraft, because it will have teh first opertunity for a kill.

Specifications (taken from globalsecurity.com)

Mig 1.42:

Prime contractor: MiG-MAPO
Nation of origin: Russia
Function: Multi-role fighter
Crew: 1
First Flight: 1999?
In-service year ?
Engine Two Lyulka AL-41F vectored-thrust afterburning turbofans, 39,340 lb thrust each
Wing span: 15 m / 49 ft 3 in
Length: 19 m / 62 ft 4 in
Height: 6 m / 19 ft 8 in
Canard span: 5 m / 16 ft 5 in
Weight (approx.): 33,069 lb empty /
44,092 lb max. take off
Ceiling: N/A
Speed @ altitude: In excess of 2,448 km/h / 1,521 mph
@ supercruise: In excess of 1,224 km/h / 760 mph
Range: N/A
Armament: Unknown but surely any AAMs in Russian arsenal


S-47:

Country of Origin: Russia
Builder: Sukhoi
Role
Similar Aircraft
Wingspan: 15.16 m - 16.7 m
Length overall: 22.2 m - 22.6 m
Height overall: 6.36 m - 6.40 m
Weight empty, equipped : 24,000 kg (52,910 lb) -- 26000 kg (57,320 lb)
Max T-O weight : 34,000 kg (74,960 lb)
Engines: 2 Perm Aviadvigatel D-30F6 (34,170 lbst), or
2 Saturn/Lyul'ka AL-37FU afterburning 142.2 kN (31,966 lb st) with afterburning
thrust-vectoring in pitch -20o to 20o at 30o per second
Max level speed at height : 2,500km/h (1,350 knots)
Max level speed at S/L : 1,400km/h (756 knots)
Service ceiling : 18,000 m (59,050 ft)
Range with max fuel at height : 1,782 nm (3,300 km/2,050 miles)
Number of hardpoints: 14: 2 wingtip, 6-8 underwing, 6-4 conformal underfuselage
Air-to-air : R-77, R-77PD, R-73, K-74
Air-to-surface: X-29T, X-29L, X-59M, X-31P, X-31A, KAB-500, KAB-1500
Crew: 1

O M G O M G O M G O M G O M O M G O M G oh my god oh my god oh my god. -

.... Are you saying that the MiG-1.42 is better than the F-22


I have been waiting for you to say that for such a long long time.

As if.

Calm down dear, he said the MiG is better than the Sukhoi plain enough.

Originally posted by titus



Video #1
Video #2

now, do you believe that MIG MFI took off

Thank you to correct me, I'm sorry. That was a reason, why I wrote "I think". I have read that it didn't took off, but I found some video Mig39firstflight, although I was not able to download or view it. So I wasn't sure. Sorry again.

Mad man thank you for the comparitive on the Aircraft