1971 Cost of Living (part 1)

reply to post by onequestion


The thing is the birth of the computer age isn't the problem. The Republican dream of "trickle down" is. Starting with Nixon and his effort to open up China. Deregulation and trickle down economics coupled with imbalanced trade disguised as free trade are the largest contributors to this mess we have. The US can do free trade with the first world nations, and this is a good thing. You cannot take a first world nation and a third world nation and have free trade between them. Because business interests in the first world will use those polices to exploit the third world workforce. When this happens the only direction the standard of living for the first world countries workforce can go is, down.

Understand this, the labor wars that raged across this nation never really ended. Instead the Elites quit fighting the workers on it and instead learned to lobby the Government to undermine them.

reply to post by KeliOnyx


Yah!.

Everything is a balancing act.

The guy with his side hanging lowest wins.

On the balance, of course....

onequestion
reply to post by bbracken677

 

So what skills are the tens of millions of people out of work, or working in jobs like fast food, or working at target suppose to obtain?

You took on two varying positions in the same post.

Obviously one area which is in high demand are programming and tech jobs...there are opportunities that are programs by the fed that retrains people ... free. If you have no job and the training is free...wtf?

2 varying positions? Not at all.

During the 60s the US manufactured 25% of the world's manufactured goods. Today we are in the neighborhood of 5%. Do you understand that service jobs (such as fast food jobs) now occupy an historical high in terms of percentage of jobs available?

In this statement you suggest that we have lost most of our manufacturing jobs which is the type of job someone would use to obtain an education while still being able to support themselves. Its really hard to fully support yourself off 8 an hour and going to college.

see above

We have run our manufacturing jobs overseas, we have increased taxation on business to a degree we are the 2nd highest corporate tax rate in the world.

Again.

again what? Are you suggesting that I am suggesting there are NO manufacturing jobs in the US?
Note 25% vs 5%. 5% is greater than zero using my math.
Seems you just wish to be argumentative rather than actually reading and understanding. I am not making stuff up, using facts that are verifiable if you are not too lazy.

Here we are blaming the poor people for the economy. Your placing the problem of whats wrong with our economy in the hands of the people who literally have the least responsability and or control. They don't have the means to create or add jobs.

When are we going to put the responsability in the hands of the descion makers in politics and the profiteers in the mega corporations?

When are going to examine our culture?

Why are we not developing support systems to aid people through the education process rather then telling people who already have nothing that everything they are doing is wrong.

Tens of millions of people cant all be drug dealers in the projects can they?

So...we should expect people to not be profit oriented? We should expect corporations to be non profit entities? Get real...

I agree that we should hold our decision makers responsible. We should hold "profiteers" that break laws responsible for their actions as well. "Profiteers" that create opportunities and jobs should not be vilified but rather they should be celebrated. Take them out of the economy and you have no economy, or do you not grasp the basic tenets of a healthy economy?

As far as holding poor people responsible...really? Is that what I said? NO...I stated a fact that those sucking off the hind teat with no drive, no ambition and creating a culture that raises more children who will learn how to play the system will NOT CREATE JOBS. Period. Argue the point I made...do not make crap up. No where did I imply that this segment of our society were in the 10s of millions. Puhlease.

There are support systems to aid people through the education process. Those with no drive, who are too lazy and are quite happy to live off of $661/month plus food stamps (now referred to as SNAP) are NOT going to participate no matter how much hand holding you do, NOT going to look at alternatives and are NOT going to take jobs that exist. Dont believe me? Spend a couple months on a section 8 property in a professional capacity trying to help them and then we can have an intelligent conversation. 90% minimum of those there are NOT looking for a way out. They are looking for ways to stay. That is the real world there...not some idiotic fairy land people want to believe. My point was simple: these people do NOT create jobs. Argue that point instead of making one up that I did not state.

When are we going to examine our culture? Perhaps when we can have an honest factual debate that isnt laced with accusations of racism, isnt full of personal attacks and focuses on facts rather than rhetoric.

There have been many attempts at these discussions and they are ALL shut down by the left when it involves things they do not want to hear. Shut down by the right because it involves things they do not want to acknowledge. People want to believe what they want to believe even when it totally flies in the face of facts, logic and honesty.

KeliOnyx
reply to post by onequestion

 

The thing is the birth of the computer age isn't the problem. The Republican dream of "trickle down" is. Starting with Nixon and his effort to open up China. Deregulation and trickle down economics coupled with imbalanced trade disguised as free trade are the largest contributors to this mess we have. The US can do free trade with the first world nations, and this is a good thing. You cannot take a first world nation and a third world nation and have free trade between them. Because business interests in the first world will use those polices to exploit the third world workforce. When this happens the only direction the standard of living for the first world countries workforce can go is, down.

Understand this, the labor wars that raged across this nation never really ended. Instead the Elites quit fighting the workers on it and instead learned to lobby the Government to undermine them.

I disagree with your pronouncement regarding trickle down economics. The govt has made sure, the last 20 years at least, that trickle down is not in play.

The govt has done all it can to hurt manufacturing, has done all it can to drive manufacturing overseas. You have an economic atmosphere that does not produce the good paying jobs...does not provide positive incentives even with regard to the small business man. Ever own your own business? Ever had to pay taxes and deal with the mountain of paper work just so the govt can turn your business into a marginally success at best?

Our govt does not reward the aspect of our economy that could make trickle down work. Instead it rewards graft, it rewards cronyism, it rewards those who make money without creating or adding value to anything. If our govt rewarded manufacturing and value added business models we would NOT be in this position but would have a thriving upper and middle class.
If you think we can eliminate poverty than we had better be so productive, so profitable what we can afford to provide a decent standard of living so that 40% of the populace to sit on their butts. There will always be a lower class for the simple reason there will always be those without any ambition. Should we reward those with no ambition and at the same time penalize those with ambition who achieve success? Isnt that just effing backwards and stupid?

Common sense says that value added manufacturing or tradable services or raw resources are what makes a country rich. To punish the entrepreneurs that make these happen to a degree you drive them into greener fields is massively stupid.

I earn my money...I work for a living. Tell me exactly how, why, the govt should feel entitled to an ever increasing portion of my income? Specially given the waste involved...the ever increasing waste.
Tell me exactly why it seems logical to so many that providing negative incentives for success is a good thing? This is the most ignorant thing I have ever heard of.

reply to post by bbracken677

again what? Are you suggesting that I am suggesting there are NO manufacturing jobs in the US? Note 25% vs 5%. 5% is greater than zero using my math. Seems you just wish to be argumentative rather than actually reading and understanding. I am not making stuff up, using facts that are verifiable if you are not too lazy.

No im not relax a little sheesh.

Obviously one area which is in high demand are programming and tech jobs...there are opportunities that are programs by the fed that retrains people ... free.

Links please.

So...we should expect people to not be profit oriented? We should expect corporations to be non profit entities? Get real...

What? Your taking everything to the extreme. Corporations can be profit oriented but in order to maintain the community their profiting from they need to give back in order to keep the cycle continueing.

As far as holding poor people responsible...really? Is that what I said? NO...I stated a fact that those sucking off the hind teat with no drive, no ambition and creating a culture that raises more children who will learn how to play the system will NOT CREATE JOBS. Period. Argue the point I made...do not make crap up. No where did I imply that this segment of our society were in the 10s of millions. Puhlease.

Your making blanket statements about how everyone is milking the system while at the same time talking about how manufacturing jobs are going over seas and that our country has lost 20 trillion dollars out of the economy. Then in the next paragraph your saying that people who are experiencing economic despairity are the problem because they are collecting welfare and food stamps.

So are their far fewer middle america jobs and a 20 trillion dollar loss to the economy or are people milking the system dry?

Welfare Stats

So besides 12 million new programmers and techies, not counting people like me who are working on an apprenticeship or other various forms of education who are not making hardly any money, collecting food stamps or living in section 8 housing, what are people suppose to be doing without a manufacturing base or construction?

You do realize that a large percentage of people collecting welfare and social security are older, and disabled people right?

I think we need to place more responsabilities in the hands of the descion makers and the people who actually have the resources to make a difference. If welfare is a problem then cut it off and create the resources for people to be able to get back on their feet.

Sorrry to tell you this but there arent that many high paying jobs. If those people your talking about got off their benefits they would lose quality of life and probably become homeless. Your addressing the wrong issues. You think people on welfare are the problem which is obtuse.

reply to post by bbracken677


Trickle down does not work simply because of bad trade policies which oddly enough were supported by the same people that pushed trickle down on to us. It is that simple Unions and Regulation did not drive manufacturing away. That is a Conservative lie so they can push "right to work" down our throats. When you create poor imbalanced trade polices with the third world you are creating an environment to drive the first world workforce into accepting appalling work conditions and slave wages to line the pockets of the few. You also create an environment where trickle down will not ever work because there is nothing to push more than minimal reinvestment in this economy. Bottom line trickle down was never meant to work it was just a sales pitch to get you to sell your future.


Why do you think they keep looking for new third world markets to "free trade" with. Right now it is being done because the Chinese are starting to develop a higher standard of living and demanding things like higher wages and time off to enjoy them. Kind of funny how that works. Yet somehow they manage to convince not so bright people like yourself that high wages and leisure time to enjoy them are bad for the economy. All one has to do is look at the graph the OP provided to see who those that think they are entitled to more than everyone else really are (hint: it's the red line).

And yes I own my own business. And I have no problem complying with the regulations and can pay my employees an actual living wage along with their health insurance how about you? In fact just today I spent the afternoon with my top two employees to discuss paying for them to get a certification so I can pay them more and expand my business. Sure it'll be 6 months before I see any kind of return on that investment and I could just as easily have bought myself a new car for what it is gonna cost but in the long term we will all come out ahead.

reply to post by KeliOnyx


Wow. Thanks for the analysis.

Also, are you hiring?



(i know i had to though)

onequestion

What? Your taking everything to the extreme. Corporations can be profit oriented but in order to maintain the community their profiting from they need to give back in order to keep the cycle continueing.

You obviously have zero experience working for a large corporation. You obviously are not even considering how a corporation gives back to the economy on the most basic of levels: jobs. Then you also have goods and services that are purchased by a corporation from other businesses that also promote a healthy economy.
Do I need to continue? The fact that there is far less manufacturing and hence, exports, reduces these contributions and what are we experiencing now?
Let's examine the heyday of manufacturing and corporate success: 50s...huge increase in standard of living from previous decades. 60s? More of same...70s? hmm..the beginning of the swing towards a negative trade balance and the beginnings of the downfall of manufacturing. Then we get Carter...President Jerk: double digit inflation, double digit unemployment and double digit interest rates...yeah.

What exactly do YOU mean by "giving back"?

Your making blanket statements about how everyone is milking the system while at the same time talking about how manufacturing jobs are going over seas and that our country has lost 20 trillion dollars out of the economy. Then in the next paragraph your saying that people who are experiencing economic despairity are the problem because they are collecting welfare and food stamps.

WRongo! I never once stated everyone is milking the system. Actually I said that roughly 90% of those in HUD or section 8 housing are milking the system. Do you disagree? Where...please quote me...do I say that those experiencing economic disparity are the problem? What I am saying is those who are not contributing ANYTHING to the economy but are "experiencing" a free ride through life on my dime are part of the problem. I am saying that penalizing success is stupid, rewarding sloth, rewarding lack of ambition and drive is stupid. Most of the rest of the problem can be blamed on our politicians, our federal govt (with their stupidly negative incentives) and policies that penalize success, that penalize manufacturing, that penalize ingenuity, that penalize creativity and so on and so forth.
The atmosphere in the US is not pro-manufacturing by any stretch of the imagination. To deny this is to deny the obvious. What little manufacturing that survives is not, for the most part, exportable and hence, contributes little towards balancing the trade deficit.

So are their far fewer middle america jobs and a 20 trillion dollar loss to the economy or are people milking the system dry?

Yes, yes, and yes. These are not mutually exclusive by any means.
There are, undeniably, fewer middle income jobs. The 20 trillion is a matter of adding up yearly trade deficits. 43% of the population (excluding children, of course) will not pay federal income taxes for 2013.

Welfare Stats

So besides 12 million new programmers and techies, not counting people like me who are working on an apprenticeship or other various forms of education who are not making hardly any money, collecting food stamps or living in section 8 housing, what are people suppose to be doing without a manufacturing base or construction?

You do realize that a large percentage of people collecting welfare and social security are older, and disabled people right?

First of all...I sense a huge negativity in your attitude. Second: it is my opinion that govt assistance SHOULD be available to help people get back on their feet....NOT a way of life, which is what handouts are now in too many cases. Third: Older people (such as myself) have paid into social security all my effing life .... and I will get less per month than these aholes sitting on their a$$ making no effort to better themselves at all. They contribute nothing towards society but reap the benefits. I contribute and will reap jack diddly regarding what I have contributed to the govt. I have zero problem with those who cannot, are not able to provide for themselves such as the elderly and the disabled. I HAVE severe issues with perfectly healthy people drawing SSI, living in section 8 properties paying $25/month for housing including utilities and getting free food as well.
You make my point regarding why we NEED a decent manufacturing base rather than stupidly providing incentives for them to move jobs overseas. Corporations are NOT the devil as many liberals like to believe....and then bitch about jobs going overseas when policies come from the above stupid philosophy that practically force corporations to move jobs overseas.

I think we need to place more responsabilities in the hands of the descion makers and the people who actually have the resources to make a difference. If welfare is a problem then cut it off and create the resources for people to be able to get back on their feet.

Sorrry to tell you this but there arent that many high paying jobs. If those people your talking about got off their benefits they would lose quality of life and probably become homeless. Your addressing the wrong issues. You think people on welfare are the problem which is obtuse.

There arent that many high paying jobs? No sh_t sherlock. What the heck do you think I have spent this thread saying????? Why is that? Perhaps because our liberal policy making govt has spent the last 20 years driving those jobs overseas?
Perhaps because our politicians are more willing to buy votes by providing freebies so they can be re-elected instead of actually creating a business friendly environment? Perhaps because our govt is more interested in how they can raise taxes than in how they can actually provide an environment that is more conducive to creating jobs and expanding the economy?
Anyone...please explain how raising taxes (removing dollars from the economy) can POSSIBLY help the economy to grow? The govt is a parasite on our economy and it is sucking it dry.
I would feel better about the taxes I pay if they actually provided positive results instead of the absolutely stupid crap we are getting. Dont get me started on the disaster that is, that will be, Obamacare.

www.doleta.gov...

Try the above site (there are more when you include what opportunities are offered in your state) if you want to examine jobs training opportunities.

reply to post by onequestion


Don't get me wrong by the way, I do agree with you on some points. There will always be those with just enough drive to be happy scraping by. But when it comes to those people I am quite content setting a minimum wage that they can just scrape by on. The social safety net does need to be reworked and adjusted, but i am not going to support completely gutting it so a multinational corporation can profit more by it. As to where my business is concerned as a young girl completely obsessed with castles and fairy tales. One of the themes of Arthurian legend always stuck with me "As the King prospered so did all the land". Those with the wealth and power always have the choice to either allow those under them to prosper or to salt the fields so they can't. Right now we are seeing the results of them choosing to salt the fields so they can't. I was determined from that point on that when I personally prospered those around me would always benefit from it as well.

KeliOnyx
reply to post by bbracken677

 

Trickle down does not work simply because of bad trade policies which oddly enough were supported by the same people that pushed trickle down on to us. It is that simple Unions and Regulation did not drive manufacturing away. That is a Conservative lie so they can push "right to work" down our throats. When you create poor imbalanced trade polices with the third world you are creating an environment to drive the first world workforce into accepting appalling work conditions and slave wages to line the pockets of the few. You also create an environment where trickle down will not ever work because there is nothing to push more than minimal reinvestment in this economy. Bottom line trickle down was never meant to work it was just a sales pitch to get you to sell your future.

Trickle down is simply a philosophy that means if entrepreneurs can do their thing then everyone will prosper. Part of trickle down was reducing stupidly high (80%) taxes on investment income to (I think) something around 20-30% thereby encouraging investments which companies could use to expand operations. Guess what? It worked.
Trickle down was in play during the 50s..everyone with ambition thrived. Same in the 60s, but then the govt got greedy and started jacking up taxes to stupidly high rates. Guess what happened then? 70s, 80s the economy crapped out until taxation was relaxed...then things began to take off again but then the anti corporation philosophies began to strengthen thereby beginning the exodus of manufacturing from the US. During the 70s, and then the 80s the trade deficit began to turn negative, but then in the 90s it nose dived as manufacturing began to move jobs out by the millions. Increased personal debt during the 90s was all that kept the economy strong...but there is only so much you can borrow.
Trickle down hasnt been in play since the late 80s. And only briefly then. Trickle down was at it's strongest during the 50s and the early 60s. Same period our standard of living increased substantially.

Why do you think they keep looking for new third world markets to "free trade" with. Right now it is being done because the Chinese are starting to develop a higher standard of living and demanding things like higher wages and time off to enjoy them. Kind of funny how that works. Yet somehow they manage to convince not so bright people like yourself that high wages and leisure time to enjoy them are bad for the economy. All one has to do is look at the graph the OP provided to see who those that think they are entitled to more than everyone else really are (hint: it's the red line).

And yes I own my own business. And I have no problem complying with the regulations and can pay my employees an actual living wage along with their health insurance how about you? In fact just today I spent the afternoon with my top two employees to discuss paying for them to get a certification so I can pay them more and expand my business. Sure it'll be 6 months before I see any kind of return on that investment and I could just as easily have bought myself a new car for what it is gonna cost but in the long term we will all come out ahead.

The opposite of free trade is demonstrably a failure. Name the top countries that exercise controls on trade to the extreme and you will see some of the worst economies in the world.
If you tack on taxes on incoming trade from, say, country A...what do you suppose is going to be their response to our exports to them? CONTROLLING international trade in that manner just turns into a pissing match.
If we let other countries tax our exports to them to a point we cannot compete and we do not respond...then that is another issue altogether.
Unfortunately in most cases that is not why we cannot compete in international trade.

reply to post by bbracken677

You obviously have zero experience working for a large corporation. You obviously are not even considering how a corporation gives back to the economy on the most basic of levels: jobs. Then you also have goods and services that are purchased by a corporation from other businesses that also promote a healthy economy.

Like which corporations? Are you talking about a giant tech firm who on average probably pays their staff a substantial wage considering most tech related jobs are highly skilled? How much of our economy does that comprimise? Or are you talking about the decent manufacturing jobs that are still here, what percentage is that?

I hope your not talking the variety of corporations that make up most neighborhoods and the ones that are employeeing the lazy welfare types.

Do I need to continue? The fact that there is far less manufacturing and hence, exports, reduces these contributions and what are we experiencing now?
Let's examine the heyday of manufacturing and corporate success: 50s...huge increase in standard of living from previous decades. 60s? More of same...70s? hmm..the beginning of the swing towards a negative trade balance and the beginnings of the downfall of manufacturing. Then we get Carter...President Jerk: double digit inflation, double digit unemployment and double digit interest rates...yeah.

Ummm. Yeah. Your contradicting yourself. Your saying corporations need to bring the jobs back to the US right? Ok sure, the government made it advantageous for them to move over seas sure.

Man i didnt know President Carter was so powerful, what exactly made him such a dick and what acts of congress were responsible for the dips in the economy?

What exactly do YOU mean by "giving back"?

How about we start with higher paying jobs and better working conditions for their employees, theres no reason with the massive profits being reaped by the mega corps that they cant reward their employeed with better conditions and higher wages.

I never once stated everyone is milking the system. Actually I said that roughly 90% of those in HUD or section 8 housing are milking the system. Do you disagree? Where...please quote me...do I say that those experiencing economic disparity are the problem? What I am saying is those who are not contributing ANYTHING to the economy but are "experiencing" a free ride through life on my dime are part of the problem.

Right i get what your saying. So 90% of people in HUD and section 8 are milking the system, id like to see you validate that claim with substantial evidence because i think your full of #.

Are those people not experiencing economic despairity? I bet they are. I lived in projects for about 3 years while my parents tried to get their # together during a tough time.

Guess you couldnt relate.

I am saying that penalizing success is stupid, rewarding sloth, rewarding lack of ambition and drive is stupid.

Its not a penalty of success to reward your employees and to care for your community. The fact that you think thats a penatly doesnt sit right with me. This selfish attitude towards others is the biggest part of the problem.

I in fact would think that its an honor to be in a position to help my community and to treat my employees better.

Most of the rest of the problem can be blamed on our politicians, our federal govt (with their stupidly negative incentives) and policies that penalize success, that penalize manufacturing, that penalize ingenuity, that penalize creativity and so on and so forth.
The atmosphere in the US is not pro-manufacturing by any stretch of the imagination. To deny this is to deny the obvious.

Ok, i get it taxes. I agree that the atmosphere here isnt pro manufacturing. Its also not every man for himself either.

Can you really not understand that the consolidation of wealth into the hands of few people will have a negetive impact on everyone else thats not those few people?

This is not about selfish desires and accumulating and amassing wealth at the detriment of every idiot and poor slob whos to lazy to get a job.

People not to drop this ideology and start placing some value in the community and in humanity in general.

You make my point regarding why we NEED a decent manufacturing base rather than stupidly providing incentives for them to move jobs overseas. Corporations are NOT the devil as many liberals like to believe....and then bitch about jobs going overseas when policies come from the above stupid philosophy that practically force corporations to move jobs overseas.

Of course we need a bigger manufacturing base.

What are you going to do with the 20+ or even more millions of people in america without welfare and food stamps untill we figure out how to bring those jobs back or create social initiates to better stabalize the balance between the haves and have nots?

You do realize that its inevitable that with the progression of technology none of these jobs are probably are going to come back and that in fact their are going to be far fewer as technology progresses right?

We need to create more social incentives for the wealthy and start eliminating this paradigm of currency as wealth and look for other justified means of enabling creation due to the progression of technology.

Sorry but your thinking 1960's and im thinking 2020.

You need to figure out what your position is because your flip flopping between two ideaologies and thats where our confusion is.

On one hand your telling me we need better jobs, which i agree with, then on the other hand your telling me that the ultra wealthy do not have a responsability to the community. You cant have it both ways dude. If the ultra wealthy dont feel successful by creating a better community then its time to kick them out on their ass and get some people who actually give a # about other people besides themselves in charge.

KeliOnyx
reply to post by bbracken677

 

Why do you think they keep looking for new third world markets to "free trade" with. Right now it is being done because the Chinese are starting to develop a higher standard of living and demanding things like higher wages and time off to enjoy them. Kind of funny how that works. Yet somehow they manage to convince not so bright people like yourself that high wages and leisure time to enjoy them are bad for the economy. All one has to do is look at the graph the OP provided to see who those that think they are entitled to more than everyone else really are (hint: it's the red line).

And yes I own my own business. And I have no problem complying with the regulations and can pay my employees an actual living wage along with their health insurance how about you? In fact just today I spent the afternoon with my top two employees to discuss paying for them to get a certification so I can pay them more and expand my business. Sure it'll be 6 months before I see any kind of return on that investment and I could just as easily have bought myself a new car for what it is gonna cost but in the long term we will all come out ahead.

umm...I believe that high wages and leisure time is bad for the economy? really? wow...seems that I have been pursuing those pretty much most of my life...dang it!!

You seemed to have totally missed the core point of my posts... the loss of higher paying jobs due to the loss of manufacturing in the US.

I am happy you own your own business...funny how those I know who own their own business all complain about the heavy burden of taxation. A few are pretty successful as is, but the rest are barely making a profit due to the excessive taxation they experience. I know one lady who just went under in December and had to close her doors. I cannot blame taxation for that, but I am sure the heavy rate didnt help.
Do you suppose that if taxes were lower they could hire more? Expand their business more? Pay better incomes?

The vision of the company that is making a 50% profit and cheating their employees is pretty much a fantasy concocted by those who "think they are entitled to more than others" and have no desire to learn how to run a business or even start one of their own. Competition will knock that profit down, either that or due to employee retention rates and the inability to even hire good people will knock that profit down as well until the company collapses.

You have to be able to hire decent people and retain those in critical positions. You wont do that by cheating them and underpaying. You will not make a 50% profit or anything even remotely close by hiring substandard people and you most definitely will not generate a 50% profit by paying fair wages and hiring talented people and then sharing the wealth enough to keep them. Part of the problem is some people think they are being cheated when they are in actuality being paid a competitive wage.

Funny how those who tend to be totally anti-business, anti-corporation will be just as likely to be anti-work. Like the old joke about someone looking for a job but stops looking for work when they get the job.

If you truly do own your own business then you are well aware of those who think they are entitled to a job but dont feel they need to work for their pay. I am sure you have experienced your share.... You cannot always see them for what they are when interviewing.

reply to post by onequestion


So long story short. What you saying is things were better back in the day.

reply to post by onequestion

Anything related to inflation or whats aka the devaluation of the dollar has to do with the "Federal Reserve".

They are the main culprit with regards to almost every negative aspect of our economy, having been responsible for the worst economic disasters in our nation's history.

1971 was also the year that Nixon took us off the gold standard. You know why? He wanted to fund the Vietnam war. You cant have a warfare state when politicians are forced to be financially responsible.


The Nixon Shock as it came to be called, was the reason for Ron Paul running for Congress. He warned us then about the effect that this would have on our nation's future.

Ron Paul then served on Reagan's panel which sought to reinstate the gold standard. It was then that it was discovered that the US no longer had any gold. The "Federal Reserve" had taken it in order to "guarantee debt payments"...


END THE FED

reply to post by bbracken677


Don't get me wrong everyone would like lower taxes and sure it would make my life easier. Are they killing me and stifling me? Not really. Does it suck that I have to go 6 months every year before I actually start showing a profit? Of course it does don't be silly. But it hasn't kept me from growing at all. The biggest detriment to my business right now isn't the regulations, it isn't the taxes it is the diminishing number of people that can afford to pay for our services.

There will always be those that have some sense of entitlement to more than they are worth. But I have also found that when the someone starts complaining that it is just as easy as sitting them down and showing them whats going on in the books to shut them up.Then shortly after that I usually end up showing them how to do sales so they can earn more, which in turn brings in more business. To put it plainly most people that run their own business are generally what Ford would call a bad manager, and not typically good at dealing with their employees.The motto on the plaque at the office is "Productivity is it's own reward".

But the fact of it is Big business has pushed for horrible trade policy with third world nations to exploit the labor pool and not to open up new markets to trade in. Manufacturing didn't leave because unions and regulations drove them out. They left because they bought and paid for trade policies that would allow them to exploit less developed labor pools. This is why they are pushing for it in South America right now. China is starting to demand higher wages, more time off and becoming environmentally aware. It is why they left the Mexican border to go to China. It is a repetitive and destructive cycle That has left our southern border a war zone, decimated our domestic economy and completely corrupted the political system. If you want manufacturing to return here trade policy has to be addressed.

You can have pure free trade with other first world countries. But with second and third world nations it can never be pure free trade. Those agreements must be constructed in a way that promotes their internal development and opens those markets without sacrificing the first world nations standard of living. And that is not how they are currently working.

reply to post by bbracken677


I have worked for some of the biggest corps.

Caterpillar being one.. the pay has went through the floor, the layoffs massive, and they open up overseas. Offshoring.

The real enemy is the INVESTORS.. taking out more in profits, always searching for anyway possible to increase profits at ANY cost.
investors command a return, which means taking out more money than is put in.. this creates deficits which the workers, who do the actual work must endure.

The investors are PARASITES of the FIRST ORDER.. someone who isn't doing the work, should get none of the reward.

OWNERS.. the masses of working class people are OWNED by the 1%.. you keep talking this POLLYANNA view of corps.

It is disingenuous at the very least!

you can't see the forest for the trees! FOLLOW THE MONEY!! where was it, where is it NOW?

the masters of industry and the true power brokers who lurk in the shadows dictate to the CEO's..

I must step away, the stench of BS is too much..

gladtobehere
reply to post by onequestion

 

Anything related to inflation or whats aka the devaluation of the dollar has to do with the "Federal Reserve".

They are the main culprit with regards to almost every negative aspect of our economy, having been responsible for the worst economic disasters in our nation's history.
END THE FED

edit on 22-1-2014 by gladtobehere because: wording

If a rich guy can be a silent partner, hidden investor, etc...

then the Ultra Rich obviously are too..

Who are the shareholders of the Fed?

The ELites, the monarchs still RULE, only through the exchange of currency primarily, instead of the ways of old.

Take the next step, backwards for a bigger picture view..

The MONARCHS are the ones BEHIND the bankers/FED RESERVE

In the 1950's half of the country's workforce was unionized today it's less then 7%. The unions have been broken by big business and they find ways around them. In turn the unions have had to give concessions making them weaker.

When a company's workforce wants to unionize they shut down and reopen under a different name or they move out of the country.

The American worker can't compete with foreign wages. So we're left with a economy based on service jobs.

The elite in this country want to enjoy all the benefits and freedoms of being American but they don't want to contribute anything back. They want less taxes and increased profits all while sending your children off to war.

Communism and socialism may be broken but I don't see capitalism as much better. When you have a society based on personal gain at all cost you end up with a bunch of cutthroat greedy selfish people at the top. Our leaders are bought and paid for by them. The entire system is corrupt and rotten to the core.

From the OP:

In the 1970's you can see that we have the advent of the internet and the tech boom with companies like Apple, Microsoft, and Oracle, and on top of that well hell, lets just look at the list..

SnF for the post, but this paragraph is simply not true. "Tech" companies like those above wouldn't have impact until much later.

The real split in income gap occurred with the death of labor movement. CEOs and tycoons found it more profitable to gut whole industries rather than continue manufacturing.

Internet, technology etc that increased in the 70s are not the problem but play a part for sure. But it's not the innovation itself that is harmful. It's wwhat happens after. A corporation makes use of robotic factories and no longer needs thousands of employees so people lose their jobs, but the corporation does not balance it out, does not pass along those savings to the customer. They just add those savings onto the profit and executive bonuses, keeping it for themselves. So humanity is not getting the full benefit of technological innovation. Only a small percentage of opportunistic people. They could have still been the ceo of a big company, still drive the most expensive cars, still have enough to buy their way out of any trouble they might get in but they said why not do all that AND own an island AND have a hundred billion just sitting in the bank AND be able to bribe your way out of even more extreme varieties of trouble...

Everything is automated by machines that require minimal maintenance. Almost everything. This is cheaper than paying a workforce. Everything should be cheaper. But all those savings are going into the pockets of corporate executives and the politicians they bribe to keep business flowing.

Then of course there is the issue of fractional reserve and debts that are impossible to pay back. Perhaps the interest on those Federal Reserve debts reached a critical point around during the 70s, necessitating a change in business practices, I dunno...