1971 Cost of Living (part 1)

reply to post by WhiteAlice


So recession is basically corporate espionage?

Seems like there are massive consolidations of power during recessions.

WhiteAlice
reply to post by onequestion

 

I disagree that it was the advent of the internet at the crux of this change but agree with all the graphs and figures outside of that.

The internet played a MASSIVE role in the destruction of one specific career field. SALES.. this field was extremely lucrative pre-net.

When someone needed something, they 'called their guy'. their guy was the only one who knew where to get what, and none were the wiser about the true cost of something. Then he could inflate a huge mark-up on the item, and the purchaser was very happy. As if the salesman was doing them a favor. They had no idea there was a 300% markup from the manufacturer.

This was specifically true in industrial sales of large ticket items. The territories were controlled, the manufacturers made you go through theur established reps to even get the product.

Sales used to be THE MOST lucrative field to work in.. until the internet, and people could shop around... and find the true cost of an item.

reply to post by onequestion


Excellent breakdown.
They keep shoving crap that is obsolete a week after we buy it, that breaks 24 hours after the warranty ends yet in 1971 if you visited your grandparents they probably had appliances that were 30 years old and worked just as well as the day they bought them.

HanzHenry

WhiteAlice
reply to post by onequestion

 

I disagree that it was the advent of the internet at the crux of this change but agree with all the graphs and figures outside of that.

The internet played a MASSIVE role in the destruction of one specific career field. SALES.. this field was extremely lucrative pre-net.

When someone needed something, they 'called their guy'. their guy was the only one who knew where to get what, and none were the wiser about the true cost of something. Then he could inflate a huge mark-up on the item, and the purchaser was very happy. As if the salesman was doing them a favor. They had no idea there was a 300% markup from the manufacturer.

This was specifically true in industrial sales of large ticket items. The territories were controlled, the manufacturers made you go through theur established reps to even get the product.

Sales used to be THE MOST lucrative field to work in.. until the internet, and people could shop around... and find the true cost of an item.

You may be on to something but business has to adapt to the environment. Workers have to adjust with new business models or be left behind. Think about it this way. The telephone was invented and rapidly replaced the telegraph. A telegraph operator had to adapt or starve. The tv replaced radios in the same way. Cars replaced buggies so buggie makers started building car bodies. Adapt or die is the name of the game. Wait and see if the minimum wage gets to high and mcdonalds puts in touch screen order takers in all its restaurants. (I've seen these in trucks tops already)

Everyone it seems is hitting on all the key points in this thread. Mega-corporations do play a key role. So do the banks. So do the big box stores like Wal-mart and Home Depot. But honestly, in my opinion, WE are the biggest problem, the biggest fault, the biggest reason behind income inequality. The rest is just the end result of capitalism. But we gave them the power. I remember reading back in the 80s, as a young man, how stores like Wal-mart were horrible for Main Street and small town America. But nobody cared, nobody listened, they were happy to spend their money buying stuff there so they could save a few bucks to by more stuff. MORE MORE MORE....that's what the American dream has become. Can't afford it? Get a loan. Can't afford those payments? Get it refinanced at even a higher rate of interest just so your payments are less each month, who cares if you just added 10 years to your debt. I could go on and on, but I won't. But lets face facts here, this all is OUR Fault.

onequestion
reply to post by WhiteAlice

 

So recession is basically corporate espionage?

Seems like there are massive consolidations of power during recessions.

Bingo. That would be my guess. Corporate espionage and arbitrage. Recessions are notable in that it basically presents a "survival of the fittest" type of scenario within the markets. Smaller businesses, including corporations, have infinitely less breathing room in the raising of additional capital or financing than their larger counterparts. During a period of recession, these smaller businesses are less capable of surviving it and become at risk for either being squished like a bug by their larger competitor or consumed. Why buy something at full price when you can buy it on sale? It's the same kind of rationale when applied to the world of business. Even in cases where it was clearly outlined to the FTC that anti-competition practices were being used to hasten the demise of smaller businesses within a specific industry, the agency turned a blind eye on these practices, which included redlining and simply called it "competition".

Many of the largest corporations in the world are basically fighting a battle of market dominance. Just about any market is going to have 5-6 top contenders/holders of those market shares and form a sort of oligopoly. This is present in just about every market and has been reducing down even further over the years. I was involved in the oil industry and I know that in the 90's in my area, the market shares between 5 different gasoline retailers was roughly around 20% each in just one metropolitan market (Shell, Texaco, Chevron, BP, and Arco). Today, both Shell and Chevron are the same entity (merged in the late 90's/early 2000's during yet another recession). Arco, Texaco and BP are gone and the remaining market share within my metropolitan area are grocery store gas stations (Costco and Safeway), which basically procure unbranded gasoline from Shell/Chevron. That's a more severe example. Walk through a grocery store and check those labels as to who really owns all those brands. Banks, too. How many mergers happened after the financial crisis?

Mergers and acquisitions have been the primary corporate strategy for a long while and it just keeps consolidating. It's really not good.

reply to post by HanzHenry


Internet sales did not become an issue until the last decade. Onequestion's theory was that it was the advent of the net in the 70's that drove this decline. I disagree as the internet wasn't even within 50% of US households until 2001. If we were talking solely about the effects of the internet within the last 10 years, I would wholeheartedly agree. In fact, I'd argue that it has impacted multiple industries outside of retail including damage to music, publishing, and entertainment industries. However, I cannot agree with the assessment that these issues began in the 70's as internet usage did not become a thing until 30 years later.

news.cnet.com...

reply to post by HanzHenry


Warren Buffett can pretend all he wants that he is for "the working man" but for all his billions in CASH as well as assets, he is the billionaire equivalent of the woman who eats cat food and smells like pee and wet crackers at the grocery store, but they find all kinds of money hoarded away in their crappy little house.

Let's get one thing straight, Warren Buffett only cares about how much money he can amass, NOT how he can help the masses. I remember when he had that press conference with the Gates' to help AFRICA. I saw through the bs. It wasn't about humanitarianism, it was about creating NEW MARKETS for their investments.

The people that complain about income disparity being a form of communism do not realize that most of the crazy wealth was created through collusion and insider trading which still can and does go on. Why do countries like Dubai have playgrounds for the megarich? Why do we even have the term megarich when one out of five kids won't get a hot dinner or cold dinner for that matter...
Great job, OP!

reply to post by WhiteAlice


What im saying is in the 70's is when we say the emergence of silicone valley and the tech market.

onequestion
reply to post by WhiteAlice

 

What im saying is in the 70's is when we say the emergence of silicone valley and the tech market.

Yep and I agree that the tech market as a whole was absolutely a disruptive technology on multiple existing markets. Zero disagreement there. The thing is much of the technology being developed early on was not being found in nearly every home until the turn of the 21st century. It actually had a fairly slow adoption rate as far as computing technology goes and it was through efforts such as Apple donating computers to schools (clever really) that got people actually seeing it as being an useful technology. Like I've said, if you were talking about the last 10 or so years, I'd wholeheartedly agree that technology is having a pretty noxious effect on markets. I just can't agree with it emanating from the 70's in a whole economy way because of that slow adoption.

A quick timeline of key events for what has occurred would be as follows:

1970's--OPEC related recession resulting in conglomeration and increased foreign trade agreements (importantly, China).
1980's--deregulation of markets/"trickle down" economics
1990's--Asian recession/economy decline creating a cheaper operational market and shifting of manufacturing to Asian countries (China and Taiwan), development of automation (technology).
2000's--advent of the internet and increased technology impacting multiple industries (music and entertainment, retail) and deep recession resulting in mergers and acquisitions in multiple markets along with increased automation.

reply to post by WhiteAlice


What about integrating technology into the workforce? Faster communication and better faster machines producing faster eliminating jobs.

The problem right now, is that too many people simply don't realize that if you can't afford to buy something without taking out a loan, you simply can't afford it.

Fiat CURRENCY is way less of a problem causer, when crunching the numbers, than pulling numbers which represent money that doesn't even exist, spewing forth from people's asses onto ledgers.

Debt is simply selling your future, and no one knows what the future holds. But those who understand how this whole mess works have a better understanding of what will come than anybody else.

People just keep assuming the position, low interest = High Lube, free of charge.. High interest = No Lube, with fees and charges to boot.

I guess it really amounts to how dumb people are that they accept so much pain in return for useless stuff.

My new car makes my butt hurt less, or maybe it's just those comfy seats that I really don't own anyway......

onequestion
reply to post by WhiteAlice

 

What about integrating technology into the workforce? Faster communication and better faster machines producing faster eliminating jobs.

Computing in the 1970's within workforces was actually still using very large and cumbersome mainframe systems such as the ones depicted on this page if you scroll about halfway down:

www.computersciencelab.com...

It wasn't until computers became smaller and more powerful in the 80's that you started seeing more use outside of larger businesses capable of storing and maintaining large mainframes. Even then, such things were still pretty costly as programs such as Quickbooks didn't exist and frequently one had to hire a software programmer to make a customized program for use in most businesses. Even then it wasn't until the late 90's and early 2000's that computing in a clerical/bookkeeping manner really started to get more streamlined with the development of things such as EFT.

A key thing to note, as well, is that computing technology within business actually began in the 1950's--not the 1970's. Even Hitler was using IBM computing during WWII.

Well done and researched thread"one question".As I business admin.major in"83"you wouldn't believe the heavy handed management tactics being taught to us.It made me physically sick how these academics brainstormed a thousand ways to screw over employees,from lowest to executive level.I dropped out the first semester but certainly learned all I wanted to know of how Corporate America has gone fascist.

reply to post by TDawg61


The modern corporate culture is affecting our entire culture. Its bringing the egotistical mindframe and cuthroat attacks into the mainstream.

Its affecting us more then we know.

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned 'taxes' yet?
In Canada, we are taxed continuously...income tax, home tax, sales tax, provincial tax, etc.
We are paying MUCH more hard-earned money on taxes now, then in the 70's.
So don't forget to thank your government also, for taxing the hell out of everything!

jacygirl

reply to post by onequestion


The main reason for a disparity in inequity would be the huge loss of manufacturing and value added jobs available in the US today.

During the 60s the US manufactured 25% of the world's manufactured goods. Today we are in the neighborhood of 5%.
Do you understand that service jobs (such as fast food jobs) now occupy an historical high in terms of percentage of jobs available?

During the last 20 years we have SENT 20 TRILLION dollars overseas as a net negative trade balance due, in large part, to the lack of manufacturing. That means our country, as a whole, is now 20 trillion dollars poorer? That's $20,000,000,000,000!!

Add to that, our govt cannot stop itself from reaching into our pockets to steal money that is ours, but for some reason they believe they are entitled to it....and then they overspend by trillions over the same 20 year period.

Private debt has skyrocketed at the same time that public debt has skyrocketed.

Beyond basic infrastructure there is nothing the govt can do to add to the economy, all they can do is detract from it.
Bottom line: taxes and our govt are nothing but a detriment to our economy. They are the parasites that sicken the host economy.

I was born in 1954...I was a senior in high school in 1971. I was renting my first apartment, as a college student, in 1973. I paid $200 for my first car (a 1961 corvair) in 1972.

What I have noticed in the intervening years is the utter explosive growth in govt, in govt intrusion into our lives, in govt regulation of EVERYTHING and NOTHING has gotten better. In fact, I would say that things are worse....more poor as a result of the govt's war on poverty. The erosion of the middle class due to the loss of quality jobs.

The govt has done everything they possibly can do to drive quality jobs, manufacturing overseas.

They are not honest with us at all...there is no true and honest discourse about the economy, just rhetoric.

Stupidest thing I have ever heard...ever! was Obama stating (during his first campaign) that he would tax corporations that send jobs overseas...what a freaking moronic statement.

Corporations are not the devil! Corporations actually create jobs. They create products that can be sold overseas and help balance the trade deficit. Corporations can make the country richer and improve the standard of living.

IF you want to treat corporations like the devil (liberals) then you need to be prepared for the results and cry not...you brought it on yourselves.

reply to post by bbracken677


What about corporate cultures impact on the culture of america?

Consider that over the last 40 years an additional wage earner has been added to maintain the standard of living (during the 80s).
During the 90s the economy was fueled by increased personal debt, and increased personal debt was what maintained the standard of living.
Now it is the 21st century and it is time to pay the piper.

We have run our manufacturing jobs overseas, we have increased taxation on business to a degree we are the 2nd highest corporate tax rate in the world.

We have, through trade imbalance, managed to lose 20 trillion dollars in wealth over the last 20 or 30 years.

Fast food jobs, which were once held by students, are now seemingly considered to be regular employment and the employees seem to believe that they are entitled to $15/hour without realizing what the affect of such a jump in income would realize: massive inflation as more skilled jobs would have to be increased in compensation. Massive inflation as a result of the increased costs of services and product. The dollar menu would become the $5 menu lol

Stupidity runs rampant in our country right now...massive stupidity, massive selfishness, massive failure to accept the blame for ones own actions, massive failure to understand the consequences of actions...massive failure of our society, govt and economy.

Let's blame the entrepreneurs by all means. Let's rob from the rich and give to the poor. The poor, that I might add, that in most cases are not interested in improving their lot in life on their own, but rather expect someone else to do it for them.

Remember, that dude selling drugs in the section 8 apartment complex will never create jobs. Nor will the ghetto queen with 8 kids paying $25/month for all utilities paid apartment while drawing food stamps and not bothering to look for a job, training, education etc...she will never create jobs.

So, yeah, let's demonize the rich, let's tax them into extinction so the ghetto queen and the drug dealer can continue to draw welfare and kill what's left of entrepreneurship in the good ole US of A. Then there will be NO jobs...no one paying taxes

reply to post by bbracken677


So what skills are the tens of millions of people out of work, or working in jobs like fast food, or working at target suppose to obtain?

You took on two varying positions in the same post.

During the 60s the US manufactured 25% of the world's manufactured goods. Today we are in the neighborhood of 5%. Do you understand that service jobs (such as fast food jobs) now occupy an historical high in terms of percentage of jobs available?

In this statement you suggest that we have lost most of our manufacturing jobs which is the type of job someone would use to obtain an education while still being able to support themselves. Its really hard to fully support yourself off 8 an hour and going to college.

We have run our manufacturing jobs overseas, we have increased taxation on business to a degree we are the 2nd highest corporate tax rate in the world.

Again.

Let's blame the entrepreneurs by all means. Let's rob from the rich and give to the poor. The poor, that I might add, that in most cases are not interested in improving their lot in life on their own, but rather expect someone else to do it for them.

Here we are blaming the poor people for the economy. Your placing the problem of whats wrong with our economy in the hands of the people who literally have the least responsability and or control. They don't have the means to create or add jobs.

When are we going to put the responsability in the hands of the descion makers in politics and the profiteers in the mega corporations?

When are going to examine our culture?

Why are we not developing support systems to aid people through the education process rather then telling people who already have nothing that everything they are doing is wrong.

Tens of millions of people cant all be drug dealers in the projects can they?