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London MET Police call for water cannons ahead of riots

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posted on Jan, 22 2014 @ 01:33 PM
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reply to post by paraphi
 


By the definition of the word. As stated in the report they're lethal, are going to be used in protests and not just riots. It even highlights several protests they wanted to use them in. It goes on to list other methods such as use of guns, vehicles and military style tactics.

I'm a regular peaceful protestor myself and have been a journalist for years, this is by far the biggest move to a militarized police force.

Also removing parliamentary oversight and approval for their deployment is classic junta.


edit on 22-1-2014 by bastion because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 22 2014 @ 01:52 PM
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How lethal is water cannon compared to a sky full of bricks and burning shops?

How many people have been killed by water cannon in Northern Ireland - the only part of the UK where water cannon are currently allowed to be used.

On rules of engagement. I think they will be rather tight and can only see deployment in the direst of situations. Prove me wrong if you can.

PS - not militarised as the OP stated!

Regards



posted on Jan, 22 2014 @ 02:02 PM
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The NI figures they're using are based on putting out car fires so naturally there aren't fatalities associated. As for bricks and things, the reason we approve batton rounds over water cannons at the moment is because water cannons are so inaccurate and operate on spray and pray rather than pciking out a target with the aim of temporarilly disabling them.

There's a picture of the aftermath of a watercannon being used here - though beware it's pretty graphic (i.e old guy with his eyeballs hanging out their sockets)

Pressurised water is no joke, it hits with the same forces a sledgehammer to the face would. www.guyanagraphic.com...

Though again if you'd bothered to read the report it documents all this. It only takes a minute or two to read and is vital to future policing in the UK.
edit on 22-1-2014 by bastion because: (no reason given)


I also urge you to look at past briefs and how 'function creep' works. Note the report states live firearms are another alternative, if this is passed how many months do you think it'll be before police start calling for all police at demonstrations to be armed?
edit on 22-1-2014 by bastion because: (no reason given)


Also it's worth looking at the sentences given out for those involved in the riots - one guy with no criminal record helped himself to two scoops of icecream in a shop, had a lick and gave the remainder to a homeless guy and was given a 16-month jail sentence. Do you honestly think these kind of weapons are only going to be reserved for hardened criminals and people we genuinely need to fear?
edit on 22-1-2014 by bastion because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 22 2014 @ 02:05 PM
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I suppose it all depends on your perspective.

I was in a pub last night with a group of very successful local businessmen; two multiple garage owners, a very successful owner of several 'up market' bars, a private security firm owner, the owner of a large regional taxi service, a restaurant owner and a local builder - all were bemoaning how poorly they were doing and how takings had been down over the holiday period and were almost non-existent so far this year. Another person present whose income and interests are generated from 'alternative' sources said he'd barely made anything at all for the last 6 months or so.

Unemployment is falling in certain areas but due to the London / Home Counties centric nature of UK politics and MSM this gives a very misleading slanted viewpoint - there is absolutely NO recovery in large areas of the UK and people are suffering real and genuine hardships.

And many of these 'new' jobs are paying appallingly piss poor wages - subsistence level at best.

These same government fed sources that report unemployment as falling also report inflation of only 2% - this despite ALL major energy suppliers making substantially larger than 2% increases, increased rail fares, rising food prices and transport costs, blah blah blah.
Anyone who believes the cost of living has risen by only 2% is really living in a completely different reality to the one I am experiencing.
So how much credibility can be placed in the employment figures?

I'm not going to predict any wide scale rioting.
Sure, some people are well and truly pissed off and even desperate but also many people's will's have been crushed, they are resigned to a life of need and want.

Ok, the blooms of recovery maybe showing through in the more affluent areas of the country but I suspect it'll be a long time till they appear in the cold, harsh hinterlands of the North East etc.
And if they eventually do I suspect it'll be even longer till its soul and spirit recovers.

Riot?
Once over maybe but now?
Unless done on a truly nation wide scale it would achieve nothing except the introduction of even more reactionary and repressive legislation.

As for the police - who can trust a force that deliberately sat back and allowed the rioters of 2011 to spread and continue just to make a point to their political masters?
edit on 22/1/14 by Freeborn because: grammar and clarity



posted on Jan, 22 2014 @ 02:07 PM
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reply to post by bastion
 


Just to clarify. You disprove of water cannon because they are lethal, but cannot find any death associated with such in the only place in the UK where water cannon is allowed? Let's expand. Can you find any evidence that water cannon is lethal in any other Western European nation?

Regards



posted on Jan, 22 2014 @ 02:20 PM
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reply to post by paraphi
 


A quick search of youtube will reveal video footage of many people being killed by them in Eastern European countries.

Please read the report before asking questions already answered. All of this is included in the report and I don't have time to waste answering questions of those too lazy to even read it.

Also I don't disapprove simply because they can be lethal. I disapprove as it goes against the entire police structure in the UK, they're highly inaccurate, can cause multiple serious injuries and permanent disabilities and police reports say they're worse than useless.

On top of that I've been to many a peaceful protest where police have charged at crowds on horseback as a pure intimidation tactic. It's very naive to think all police alway act within the law (though most do) and providing them with yet another potentially deadly tool is not what I consider progress.
edit on 22-1-2014 by bastion because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 22 2014 @ 05:34 PM
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reply to post by stumason
 


i can't be arsed to go looking for sources. it's common knowledg and all over the papers about the coalitoions' plans. jut look around us to see what is happning.



posted on Jan, 22 2014 @ 06:18 PM
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It's all leading up to preventing groups of people protesting. They're expecting 'protests' due to austerity, they're trying to re-label a protest as a riot.

A Tory MP called police on a group of pensioners whom it turned out were only at his surgery to deliver a petition:

www.standard.co.uk... " target="_blank" class="postlink" rel="nofollow">http...://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/tory-mp-called-police-for-security-as-pensioner-volunteers-delivered-petition-to-office-9077000.html


Sir Richard Ottaway, Conservative MP for Croydon South, said he rang officers “out of concern” about security when the dozen campaigners arrived. The volunteers, 10 of whom are retirement age, went to his constituency office in Purley to hand him a petition against the Government’s Lobbying Bill.

Scared of pensioners. He must know he's guilty of something bad to assume the pensioners were there to harm him.

It will soon be illegal to gather in groups of say, ten people. If you do it will be assumed you are inciting a riot and promptly be dispersed with a water-cannon/tazed/shot/assaulted.

Sounds extreme I know, but nothing would surprise me with this load of college-kid parasites that make up our self-installed, un-elected government.



posted on Jan, 22 2014 @ 07:20 PM
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doobydoll
It will soon be illegal to gather in groups of say, ten people. If you do it will be assumed you are inciting a riot and promptly be dispersed with a water-cannon/tazed/shot/assaulted.

Sounds extreme I know, but nothing would surprise me with this load of college-kid parasites that make up our self-installed, un-elected government.


Sadly it's not extreme at all, the reality is far worse.

Currently EU Law (ECHR) is the only thing saving us from this. The UK law already exists under section 14 of the public order act which gives police the power to disperse groups of just two or more people. The only thing preventing it is the ECHR 11 on the right protests/gatherings.

Coupled with the fact the government want to pull out the EU and scrap ECHR/Human Rights legislation these measures are open to abuse if passed.


edit on 22-1-2014 by bastion because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 22 2014 @ 07:29 PM
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Well, you could always look on the bright side, England?

They don't seem to be deploying LRAD and Microwave area denial systems yet.


That's when it'll turn nasty and pretty much game over. I don't care who someone is. You're not charging right through LRAD on high or Microwave on any setting. Water can't hit everyone at once like those can. So..... It can get worse.



posted on Jan, 23 2014 @ 02:21 AM
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bastion
No offence but read the report. Water cannons are classed as less than lethal weapons with the police report clearly stating they can be deadly.


To be honest, anything can "be deadly". A baton round can kill easily, as can a truncheon, or a shield, or even pushing someone over. At the end of the day though, if you're rioting, then you should expect a forceful response from the Police. You have a right to peaceful protest, not rioting.


bastion
Also they're not being deployed in riot situations but any public disturbance that upsets the norm (i.e protests, marches etc...).


Actually, they're not being deployed at all. This report simply discusses their possible use, something entirely different. You're leaping to conclusions.


bastion
Do ou think it's only going to be Jeremy Kyle types out on the streets when pensions are scrapped, the NHS is closed down, we run out of electricity, people can no longer afford food etc...? Austerity hasn't even begun.


NHS is being closed, is it? No pensions, really? Run out of electricity? Where are you pulling this crap from?


bastion
Can't believe how many people on here are more than happy to spend hundreds of millions on turning the police into a military force instead of using the money to tackle the root of the problems.


It's hardly turning them into a "military force". I'd laugh if I went up against an enemy that came to battle with a hose. The "root" of the problem in the 2011 riots was a bunch of disaffected Youth who thought they were owed something for nothing, how is spending money on them going to help? I distinctly remember many of these oiks on TV stating, in very broken English, that it was the Governments fault with one guy who could barely utter a sentence deriding them for upping tuition fees, when it was quite clear to all he couldn't spell University, much less get a place. A certain amount of personal responsibility is needed by these youngsters who, quite clearly, did not put the effort in at school, hence why their options are limited.


bastion
Cameron anouned it a few weeks back that austerity measures will remain in place long after economic recover. If you think austerity had anything to do with rescuing the economy then I'm afraid you haven't met the Tories.


In 2010, Government spending accounted for just over half of the total GDP of the nation - this was untenable and actually the reason why the deficit is so high. Many actually agree that Government spending should be controlled and not go mental like it did between 1997-2010. This is what Cameron is on about, controlling spending and living within our means. It's all very well promising to feed the poor, to house everyone, freeze energy prices or to give everyone University places like Millband loves to do, but some poor schmuck has to pay for it you know.


bastion
Those riots had absolutely nothing to do with austerity -


I know, that's exactly what I said.


bastion
they initially an outburst against yet another police murder of a young black male.


The guy had a gun and was very well known to the Police. It was hardly a "murder" - simple fact is, had he not sought to obtain said weapon, then they wouldn't have carried out the hard stop.


bastion
Also Duggan wasn't a drug dealer, he received one minor fine for possessing a small amount of cannabis years earlier, he was hardly scarface.


Er, he was. He was well known to the Met, had been arrested in connection to several murders, robberies and attempted murders and was associated with a local gang - not to mention his Uncle was a Mancunian crime Lord. Apparently, he had armed himself in response to the murder of a relative (also drug related) and was out to seek revenge for that. He was not a nice chap, unlike what his blinkered family would have you believe.


taoistguy
reply to post by stumason
 


i can't be arsed to go looking for sources. it's common knowledg and all over the papers about the coalitoions' plans. jut look around us to see what is happning.




Ah, ok - I'll just take your word for it then - not! Although it took me a while to figure out what the hell the coalitoion was.....


edit on 23/1/14 by stumason because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 23 2014 @ 02:23 AM
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doobydoll
It's all leading up to preventing groups of people protesting. They're expecting 'protests' due to austerity, they're trying to re-label a protest as a riot.
doobydoll

No, it isn't. There is no prospect whatsoever of preventing protest because, at the end of the day, that only backfires and leads to civil disorder. It is far better to let people have a peaceful protests and air their views that try to repress it. And I seriously doubt anyone is expecting any protests as a result of austerity. Recent surveys have shown most people have not noticed any drop in service levels as a result of Government cuts and, in some cases, have actually noticed improvement. Who's going to riot and why?


doobydoll
It will soon be illegal to gather in groups of say, ten people. If you do it will be assumed you are inciting a riot and promptly be dispersed with a water-cannon/tazed/shot/assaulted.


No, it won't. You're making a massive assumptive leap based on your own fear, not fact.


doobydoll
Sounds extreme I know, but nothing would surprise me with this load of college-kid parasites that make up our self-installed, un-elected government.


Oh please - what exactly makes them "self-installed" or "unelected"? You do realise that the Tories alone got more of the vote in 2010 than Labour got in 2005? Even the Lib Dems got more votes than they did in 2005. Between them, the two parties represent 59% of the total vote - how exactly are they "unelected"?

reply to post by bastion
 


Actually, our right to protest and assemble is enshrined in far older and more relevant laws than the ill-thought out ECHR., which allows terrorists to live in our country, at our expense or for criminals to sue their victims for damages.
edit on 23/1/14 by stumason because: (no reason given)

edit on 23/1/14 by stumason because: Bloody tags...



posted on Jan, 23 2014 @ 03:18 AM
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I am concerned with the possibility of water cannon as I have witnessed this weapon in action and its exactly as another member said, being hit by a heavy object that randonly propells one off ones feet. Unless one has seen one in action, perhaps caution rather than bravado would be better. I would be interested to hear the views of those who have actually experienced this type of public shower.

Once one opens the door to things unseen on our streets such as water cannon, other countries methods of crowd control are also likely to come waltzing through also. Do we really want this because people will get so frustrated eventually and escalation should not be even a possibility unless we want real trouble and civil war. We have far too many unemployed, much from our youth and all their energy to put into something they see as fair.

I think we should be well aware that this country does not have the habit, as in say France of mass protests and we have been a particularly easy ride for government in the past to do as it pleases because there is very little means open to the public to protest since our media has been tamed and basically censored and is not worth even listening to most of the time so their means of naming and shaming has ended.

I think people should remember that our government through not only the police, but MI5 are not above infiltrating protests and starting trouble in order to make a protest look like a rioting mob for the cameras. This naturally not only influences people who are thinking of supporting protests in the future, but also the armchair judges who sit at home and gulp up the idea that all protestors are actually rioters, protesting over absolutely nothing but a better life on benefits and deserve a good kicking from the cops. The other stealth weapon is the CRB report which details arrests and cautions for anything and certainly anyone protesting and getting grabbed by the coppers will today be arrested immediately and their chances of changing jobs, even keeping their job if the CRB is checked regularly by their employers is a terrific deterrent to stop people protesting. Originally people thopught the CRB was to stop people like Ian Huntley and paedophiles etc but its far more extensive and restricting than people realise.

People seem to forget that it is only the protestors who stand often between greedy corporations and our environment. Most of our MP's sit on the boards of many of the corporations so we don't in truth have much in the way of fair representation of the actual wishes of the public.

I think our whole laws about protest and the actions the police may and may not carry out need an immediate review so that we all know exactly where we stand.

I also think that the somewhat recent law of not being allowed to photograph or film the police is a blatant sign of them not wanting to be liable through evidence for their behaviour and often intimidating attitude towards the public. Speaking to a friend whose a prison officer, she said that a number of them had been given riot control training for the streets, so the government is clearly expecting trouble - and my guess it knows perfectly well why.

I had to laugh at the news put out - yes by our tame media - that the BOE has got our figures wrong and we are doing so much better, infact we are starting to sprint ahead of countries in the EU. Really! pray where in the ordinary world of the public are we doing so crackingly well.

I went to my local DVLA office only to read "This office is not permanently closed contact Swansea". Well that's a whole lot of jobs snuffed out and yet another local service gone. We are experiencing a steady shutting of local services, along with all the other so-called austerity cuts. Food is not getting so expensive the vulnerable in our society can no longer afford a decent diet. I could bring up loads of other examples. Profits have be squeezed in every area and High Streets are virtually dead in many towns and villages. There are more closed shop and business signs up everywhere. I would be interested to know how many businesses are being kept going with government financial help of one sort or another. Our Government's concern is and always has been only in the City and its financial world.

All we are seeing in this country is only the rich getting richer - e.g. queenie granted £47 million just for the asking from her dear little cousin Cameron - everyone OK with that. Now William and Kate are making themselves into some kind of Beckham brigade and making the extra buck on the usual royal paraphernalia, most of which with his degree in fine arts he should be ashamed of putting his name to, let alone earning from it - but at least he or his helpers will at least know the value of the crown jewellers, which incidentally are owned by the State and not the current German family on the English throne.

When people protest at the G whatever conferences people do have a right to remind our government that many of the giant proportions have been allowed to do business here, earn money from the people of this country to enhance their profits, but they still do not pay the right amount of tax due to our treasury. What should be remembered is that our MP's sit, many of them of numerous boards of the huge multinationals and so its fair for the public to protest when these corporations skip UK tax and the ordinary earners of this country on their stucky wages and salaries pay through the nose. That's without touching on other reasons for the G protests and the austerity of keeping failing corrupt banks protecting the wealth of the rich.

I know I am taking an overall look at this but civil rights in this country are being eroded and I genuinely feel we should be aware of the possible consequences.



posted on Jan, 23 2014 @ 03:26 AM
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reply to post by Shiloh7
 


You make some valid points, but you like others seem to be confusing protesting, which is a legitimate right and has been for centuries, with rioting.

The two are entirely different - no where in the report (or anywhere else for that matter) has it been discussed about curtailing civil rights or other related activities. It is simply about the possible use of water cannon in any possible future civil disobedience.



posted on Jan, 23 2014 @ 04:54 AM
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stumason
NHS is being closed, is it? No pensions, really? Run out of electricity? Where are you pulling this crap from?


Do you live under a rock? The NHS has been sold off piecemeal for the last 20 years under PFI contracts. More recently the government have sold huge chunks of it off to Virgin Healthcare Ltd who've been running frontline NHS services for the past 18 months.
Virgin Healthcare secretly run NHS hospitals - www.nhs.uk...

As for pensions, they're completely unsustainable - we have an ever aging population with decreased economic output as a percentage. The debt in pensions is near the trillion mark - it's a common view amongst financiers that they're soon going to collapse. Insurance companies like AXA Sunlife have already introduced life insurance measures that actually reward people for having unhealthy habits such as smoking etc...
Pensions in seismic collapse = www.bbc.co.uk...

The electricity is common knowledge too. The last two governments failed to build power stations and infrastructure - old power stations are being decommissioned and plans for new ones are not being approved. In 2017 we reach the energy deficit where our demands for electricity outstrip our total supply.
Link - Government Body Says Electricity Shortfall starts in 2015 - www.bbc.co.uk...

These are all very well known major problems the UK faces that have been reported for years in Private Eye and the like. I recommend you read up on them as they're serious problems that affect everyone.
edit on 23-1-2014 by bastion because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 23 2014 @ 05:05 AM
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bastion

stumason
NHS is being closed, is it? No pensions, really? Run out of electricity? Where are you pulling this crap from?


Do you live under a rock?


I dont know where Stu gets his information from...Must be the BBC and Main stream Media red tops.


He does make some great points and i enjoy reading his posts, but i just shake my head at the Tory/libdem spin he regurgitates.
No doubt he will be on here telling us how Unemployment has fallen by 500,000 since the coalition was formed, but forgetting the fact 660,000 unemployed have been sanctioned in the past 14 months...

Removing someone off benefits does not a employee make, buy hey, who's gonna notice this is how they massage the figures.



posted on Jan, 23 2014 @ 05:28 AM
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stumason

doobydoll
It's all leading up to preventing groups of people protesting. They're expecting 'protests' due to austerity, they're trying to re-label a protest as a riot.
doobydoll

No, it isn't. There is no prospect whatsoever of preventing protest because, at the end of the day, that only backfires and leads to civil disorder. It is far better to let people have a peaceful protests and air their views that try to repress it. And I seriously doubt anyone is expecting any protests as a result of austerity. Recent surveys have shown most people have not noticed any drop in service levels as a result of Government cuts and, in some cases, have actually noticed improvement. Who's going to riot and why?


doobydoll
It will soon be illegal to gather in groups of say, ten people. If you do it will be assumed you are inciting a riot and promptly be dispersed with a water-cannon/tazed/shot/assaulted.


No, it won't. You're making a massive assumptive leap based on your own fear, not fact.


doobydoll
Sounds extreme I know, but nothing would surprise me with this load of college-kid parasites that make up our self-installed, un-elected government.


Oh please - what exactly makes them "self-installed" or "unelected"? You do realise that the Tories alone got more of the vote in 2010 than Labour got in 2005? Even the Lib Dems got more votes than they did in 2005. Between them, the two parties represent 59% of the total vote - how exactly are they "unelected"?

No-one won the election, that's how:
en.wikipedia.org...


None of the parties achieved the 326 seats needed for an overall majority. The Conservative Party, led by David Cameron, won the largest number of votes and seats but still fell twenty seats short. This resulted in a hung parliament where no party was able to command a majority in the House of Commons. This was only the second general election since World War II to return a hung parliament, the first being the February 1974 election. Unlike in 1974, the potential for a hung parliament had this time been widely considered and predicted and both the country and politicians were better prepared for the constitutional process that would follow such a result.[2] The coalition government that was subsequently formed was the first coalition in British history to eventuate directly from an election outcome.

The public didn't vote for this government, the 'snollygosters' installed themselves.

Snollygoster:
www.thefreedictionary.com...

snol·ly·gos·ter (snl-gstr)
One, especially a politician, who is guided by personal advantage rather than by consistent, respectable principles.

Snollygoster,I love that word



posted on Jan, 23 2014 @ 05:33 AM
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bastion
Do you live under a rock? The NHS has been sold off piecemeal for the last 20 years under PFI contracts. More recently the government have sold huge chunks of it off to Virgin Healthcare Ltd who've been running frontline NHS services for the past 18 months.


Not at all, but as others like to point out, there is always some spin somewhere....

At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter who runs what, as long as the care received is a high quality and free at the point of use. Over the past 20 years, to use your timeframe, it cannot be argued that the NHS has vastly improved.

I'm not sure what relevance PFI has with the NHS being "sold off". Most PFI contracts were for capital expenditure which the Trusts pay back over a long period. That said, most PFI deals were not very good value for money - I read of one where a hospital was built with PFI money, but the Trust concerned would end up paying back 10 x the amount back over 50 years or something - but that is symptomatic of Civil servants and their procurement. Most have never worked in the "real world" and will simply pay whatever they are quoted.


bastion
As for pensions, they're completely unsustainable - we have an ever aging population with decreased economic output as a percentage. The debt in pensions is near the trillion mark - it's a common view amongst financiers that they're soon going to collapse. Insurance companies like AXA Sunlife have already introduced life insurance measures that actually reward people for having unhealthy habits such as smoking etc...


The pensions problem has been a problem since time immemorial - it is nothing new. It is one of the reasons why the Government brought in the Workplace pensions scheme to make people take them up in preference for the State pension. To be honest, anyone who worked their whole life expecting the state pension to sustain them is a fool anyway - it's always been in the news about how little pensioners get. It's a nice top up, but everyone should take it upon themselves to prepare for retirement. I've been paying into a pension since I was 17.


bastion
The electricity is common knowledge too. The last two governments failed to build power stations and infrastructure - old power stations are being decommissioned and plans for new ones are not being approved. In 2017 we reach the energy deficit where our demands for electricity outstrip our total supply.


Media spin, I am afraid, taking the absolute worst case scenarios and putting it on the front page. I actually work very closely with the Grid and have seen, first hand, the projections for demand/supply and there is ample wiggle room and reserve available, albeit it is getting a tad tight. That said, if push comes to shove, we have interconnects with France and Holland, so the lights are never going to go out.


bastion
These are all very well known major problems the UK faces that have been reported for years in Private Eye and the like. I recommend you read up on them as they're serious problems that affect everyone.


I don't need to, despite what you or others may think of me, I am reasonably well informed. Harking back to what I said in another thread about the Media, they all try to add their own spin and the trick is to read between the lines and find out the truth. Solo likes to poke fun at me reading the BBC, but at the same time, you're quoting Private Eye at me which is famous for it's satire and it loves to poke fun at the establishment.


Soloprotocol
I dont know where Stu gets his information from...Must be the BBC and Main stream Media red tops.


I don't have a particular favourite and love to get as many sources as possible, which may include the BBC but will never include a red top. I don't give them the time of day. At least I use sources, Solo - as I said yesterday, it would be nice if you could post something other than "witty" retorts.....


Soloprotocol
He does make some great points and i enjoy reading his posts, but i just shake my head at the Tory/libdem spin he regurgitates.


I don't regurgitate anything, certainly not without actually verifying what it is that they are saying. If it happens to be truth, then yes, I will "regurgitate" it. It's also funny how I am now being labelled as a Tory/LibDem mouth piece. That's like saying I am a socialist-capitalist, pro-democracy Tyrant...A tad confused...


Soloprotocol
No doubt he will be on here telling us how Unemployment has fallen by 500,000 since the coalition was formed, but forgetting the fact 660,000 unemployed have been sanctioned in the past 14 months...


Nice try at spin, Solo, but once again you fail to actually either verify this or put it into context. Just because someone get's "sanctioned", that doesn't mean they lose all their benefit. In fact, most only lose a little bit and only a handful have actually lost all their benefit.


Soloprotocol
Removing someone off benefits does not a employee make, buy hey, who's gonna notice this is how they massage the figures.


If you genuinely believe that 660,000 people have had all their benefits removed, then where are the 660,000 starving people rampaging the streets looking for food? The fact of the matter is you're misrepresenting a figure, which is dishonest.



posted on Jan, 23 2014 @ 05:37 AM
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reply to post by doobydoll
 


I am sure you are more than aware that the reason why they couldn't get a full majority was because of previous Governments gerrymandering of the election boundaries coupled with our FPTP system.

Look at this way - Labour in 2005 got 35.2% of the Popular vote and got 355 seats. In 2010, the Tories got 36.1% of the vote, yet only got 306. So, despite actually getting MORE votes than the previous Government which had a clear majority, they ended up with a minority owing to our stupid electoral system and wonky boundaries, which favours the smaller, urban seats (which Labour traditionally hold) over the larger rural seats.

Nice try, but you'll have to do a tad better I am afraid.



posted on Jan, 23 2014 @ 05:46 AM
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Here ye go Stu..
www.bbc.co.uk...

and..
johnnyvoid.wordpress.com...

See, i can do a little research myself.... I just dont feel the need to back up what i know is going on with links.

edit on 23-1-2014 by Soloprotocol because: (no reason given)



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