Put a sock in it, "something's being sprayed" deniers!

reply to post by network dude


Okay, so you post a link from the "Irregular Times" and claim that it is science....that "science" is on your side. I submit that there is just as much junk science out there as there is legitimate science.

From your quote: " the data need to show that any substance that has been distributed by government airplanes has been 1. Toxic, and 2. Purposefully toxic."

Um.....so the guy demands that it be shown not only to be toxic, but "purposefully" toxic??? In the final analysis, what in the world is the difference, other than one is just poison being dropped from the sky, and the other is a conspiracy? If it's toxic, whether on purpose or not, the end result is the same.

That author's opinion is that chaff is not chemtrails. I also have an opinion, equally valid. I don't give a rat's ass whether a chemical is a solid, a liquid or a gas. If our lungs are not meant to breathe it, it is BAD. That's just common sense.

reply to post by SheopleNation


Wow.....sure does sound like a lot of chaff dropped over a relatively small area. According to some, though, it's totally fine.....not harmful, and birds can use it to build nests.....it decorates the trees like tinsel....Sorry, being sarcastic here.

YIKES. Is it still around, or is it gone now? Which, if it is gone, begs the question.....WHERE DID IT GO?

ChuckNasty
So you have zero proof to back your story?

Umm, That has not been made perfectly clear to you yet?

Maybe you were hallucinating that you saw anything. You were after all, fatigued. So fatigued that you couldn't grab a couple of strands. Maybe you are getting to old for those activities?

I don't use drugs, and if I did, I would not use them while operating a motor vehicle. Nope, still young and strong, even at high elevations.

I also would not hang outside my window at 70 miles per hour on a dangerous interstate highway where big rigs usually outnumber the cars, and then foolishly attempt to reach around across my windshield to pick up and bring inside my vehicle a piece of god only knows what.

Chaff is not toxic. Chaff isn't sprayed. It is popped...sometimes by an explosion

Who claimed it was toxic? Not me. Once again, Try reading what I have actually said.

I don't think you saw chaff.

What you think I did not see is not important.

I highly doubt you saw anything.

Well, You are highly wrong buddy. ~$heopleNation

To say what I'm seeing as chaff is laughable.

Whether it is a byproduct of the jet engine, or intentionally added.

Comes right out of the exhaust and completely clouds the entire sky.

Don't know what is going on. But I have seen defensive chaff.

Is there another kind?

FissionSurplus
YIKES. Is it still around, or is it gone now? Which, if it is gone, begs the question.....WHERE DID IT GO?

From about Red Bluff, down to the turn off to head up towards Lake Berryessa, maybe an hour or so before Vacaville give or take. At least visible for 2 hours going South on Interstate 5. It got dark, so it could have been around further down as well.

I have no idea if it's still there or not. If it is gone, maybe the rain or winds dilute or break it a part. I will be going back up to Lassen this summer, so we shall see then. ~$heopleNation

SheopleNation

ChuckNasty
So you have zero proof to back your story?

Umm, That has not been made perfectly clear to you yet?

Maybe you were hallucinating that you saw anything. You were after all, fatigued. So fatigued that you couldn't grab a couple of strands. Maybe you are getting to old for those activities?

I don't use drugs, and if I did, I would not use them while operating a motor vehicle. Nope, still young and strong, even at high elevations.

Never stated you used drugs. Comprehension is a B right?

I also would not hang outside my window at 70 miles per hour on a dangerous interstate highway where big rigs usually outnumber the cars, and then foolishly attempt to reach around across my windshield to pick up and bring inside my vehicle a piece of god only knows what.

So your brakes don't work? My first thought would be to pull over and check it out. Maybe I'm not blessed with your comprehension, but at least I have common sense. Why would your first thought be "hang outside my window at 70 miles..?"

Chaff is not toxic. Chaff isn't sprayed. It is popped...sometimes by an explosion

Who claimed it was toxic? Not me. Once again, Try reading what I have actually said.

The OP did. Was keeping on topic, something you seem to have a very hard grasp on.

I don't think you saw chaff.

What you think I did not see is not important.

So...you did not see it?

I highly doubt you saw anything.

Well, You are highly wrong buddy. ~$heopleNation

Look, I realized that you are obsessed with my story and people having comprehension. You are derailing this thread with judgmental nonsense.

Let's stick to the topic at hand.

on topic - this part isn't a reply to anything you mentioned sheeple -

I do remembering the FAA limiting where military aircraft can pop their chaff. Part of the reasoning was it could mess with power lines, the other was for public safety.

reply to post by DigitalJedi805


Thank you! Just by the "provable" and admitted spraying of things in the air, whether for military training purposes on how to use chaff, or weather modification, our air is not as clean as it should be.

I find that fact alone to be pretty disturbing. I suspect other things are being sprayed as well, but again, my point (which I have repeated ad nauseum by now) is that I want for people to agree that things are being sprayed in the air by aircraft, they often look very similar to contrails, and it cannot possibly be good for us.

The military has admitted that only THEY have done studies on the effect of chaff on the environment and the creatures that breathe it, and they do admit that further testing needs to be done. That was in the late 90s. I don't see anything current in this regard, which is pretty suspicious.

They do admit that chaff DEGRADES....so those who say, "No problem, the fibers are so large you'll just cough 'em back up" aren't thinking about the older chaff degraded into tiny pieces, which maybe doesn't get coughed out so easily.

I'm stunned at the people who have no issue with breathing this crap. Chemtrails, fibertrails, whatever....it's a cluster**** being sprayed over our country every year. 10 - 15% of all lung cancer deaths each year occur in non-smokers, and they are grasping at straws trying to find the cause. Things that make you go hmmmmm.......

reply to post by ChuckNasty

So you want to split hairs as to how chaff is dispersed into the air? Alrighty then. Cause, you know, that makes all the difference in this argument. NOT. I don't care if they spray it, pop it, or use it as a suppository and then fart it out. It gets in our air and it floats to the ground.....you know, that place where we live.

You make a valid point about other environmental pollutants and then say that whatever is in the air is "fictitious".

*Sigh*

I question how many people read and consider what they write before hitting "reply"....or if they're so eager for an argument that no consideration is given.

ChuckNasty
So your brakes don't work?

Who suggested that?

My first thought would be to pull over and check it out.

And your first thought could result in your own death on a Highway like Interstate 5.

Maybe I'm not blessed with your comprehension, but at least I have common sense.

It doesn't sound like it. You see, there are not many exits in that area, and where a few are located, most are desolate. Let's just say that it's much wiser to stay the course, and not take an exit and pull over. You could end up with a gun in your face, robbed, and then left for dead on the side of the road very quickly.

Why would your first thought be "hang outside my window at 70 miles..?"

It wouldn't, and it was not. That is why I didn't do it, or do anything that you suggested that would put my life in danger. That is what you call using commonsense.

So...you did not see it?

You said that you highly doubted that I seen anything, am I wrong? I have made perfectly clear what I seen. No amount of spin or word twisting is going to change that fact. ~$heopleNation

reply to post by FissionSurplus


Not chaff, but remember this being posted a while back. NASA used Trimethylaluminium to test out a high altitude jet stream. They spew the stuff over the ocean...but at 65miles above the earth, who knows where it would end up.
NASA is again ready to....

This link shows the possible area for the rockets to test.. It includes several states. Space dot com link

The MSDS shows it to be a hazard, but not toxic..yeah right. It breaks down to Aluminum Oxide in the atmosphere.

In trying to find definitive studies on the effects of chaff on living beings, there is a woefully short list of tests done by independent researchers, and plenty of OLD studies from the 70s and early 80s by the military.

I think this article from the Las Vegas Sun dated Monday, August 4, 1997 pretty much sums it up. I'll post the whole article.

Fibers thinner than a human hair have fallen from military aircraft across Nevada and around other military installations, but scientists know little about their effects on human health.

Called chaff, the material is dropped as an airborne radar-detection countermeasure by military jet fighters.

Made of extremely fine fibers of aluminum-coated silica, a typical burst or bundle of chaff contains about 2.1 million hair-sized fiberglass strands.

Rancher Joe Dahl, chairman for military issues for the environmental organization People for the West, said Nevadans living near Fallon had until recently seen chaff as blue clumps.

"Then we saw yellow," he said, speaking from a cellular phone on his central Nevada ranch. The yellow, it turns out, is used in combat, while blue is part of training missions.

"Chaff is clearly litter and littering on public lands is illegal," said Lahsha Johnston, regional associate for the Wilderness Society.

Grace Bukowski, spokes woman for the rural Alliance for Military Accountability, said, "The health risks and ecological damage associated with inhalation, ingestion and widespread dispersal of chaff has never been independently researched."

That is why the alliance's 25 national organizations are asking governors and congressional representatives for help, Bukowski said.

Chaff is used by the Navy near Fallon and by the Air Force at its Nellis base near Las Vegas.

The Nevada Division of Environmental Protection recently searched Defense Department documents concerning the risks of the material. The military is concerned about how inhalable those chaff particles could be and whether dropping it on public and private lands is considered solid waste.

There is little information on the amounts of chaff, but an estimated 10 trillion fibers have been dropped on Nevada alone over the last 20 years.

"The long-term effects of chaff are unknown," the state report concluded.

Besides humans inhaling chaff, the state is also worried about wildlife or livestock inhaling or eating it, as well as birds using it in nests or animals getting chaff imbedded in paws.

The Army in 1992 concluded that further study was needed to determine long-term risks and chronic exposure potential.

University of Maryland and University of Delaware researchers asked that the Navy study chaff after a lab experiment in which the fibers killed 48-hour-old oyster larvae.

www.lasvegassun.com...

In other words, yes, I believe that it is not good for any living creatures. This is my assertion.

whyamIhere
To say what I'm seeing as chaff is laughable.

Whether it is a byproduct of the jet engine, or intentionally added.

Comes right out of the exhaust and completely clouds the entire sky.

Don't know what is going on. But I have seen defensive chaff.

Is there another kind?

edit on 22-1-2014 by whyamIhere because: (no reason given)

I do believe that other things are being sprayed. Often with government, they'll admit one thing and hide ten other things and deny its existence for decades until they're busted and cannot hide them anymore.

My daughter lives in San Diego. I think I may call her and ask her to start watching the skies around there....

reply to post by FissionSurplus

I guess that's totally offensive to you, as I should accept opinion as fact, and ignore my own research on the subject.

It appears that you've completely ignored the experiment I proposed to you, which I find offensive because it comes across as closed minded.

Why are you afraid of verifying for yourself what people are telling you?

FissionSurplus
reply to post by ChuckNasty

 

So you want to split hairs as to how chaff is dispersed into the air? Alrighty then. Cause, you know, that makes all the difference in this argument. NOT. I don't care if they spray it, pop it, or use it as a suppository and then fart it out. It gets in our air and it floats to the ground.....you know, that place where we live.

Good to know. Glad you cleared that one up for me. It seemed like you were tying the chemtrails stuff to a real event.

You make a valid point about other environmental pollutants and then say that whatever is in the air is "fictitious".

The Chemtrail scare stuff if pure fiction. Majority of the time people mention chemtrails, they confuse it with contrails. Pollutants are real - the govt using a fleet of aircraft to spray us all isn't. I am glad you took your time to think outside the box with this chaff stuff - you should have put it in the chemtrail forum.

*Sigh*

I question how many people read and consider what they write before hitting "reply"....or if they're so eager for an argument that no consideration is given.

We can't all agree all the time - that would be no fun. As for eager for an argument - your entire opening statement (and title) to this thread is one huge argument. Maybe you did this for brownie points and so that ONLY people who agree with you would respond?

I don't agree with you, so until you can develop proof instead of assumptions.. I posted proof that chaff have no adverse effect to the environment. Where is your debunking proof?

reply to post by SheopleNation


Really reaching on that response aren't you..

Have you called your local EPA to see if Chaff was used in that area? How about reporting the crazy things you saw instead of doing nothing about it?

It would have been bad A if you had solid proof to go along with the OP's thinking. Instead, you were too tired

ChuckNasty
Really reaching on that response aren't you..

Still going on about this, why exactly?

Have you called your local EPA to see if Chaff was used in that area? How about reporting the crazy things you saw instead of doing nothing about it?

Because only a complete imbecile would report something, when they do not even know what that something is.

It would have been bad A if you had solid proof to go along with the OP's thinking. Instead, you were too tired

Actually it was me using common sense and being careful, but whatever floats your boat.

Back at you. Actually I just made myself a bloody Mary. It's just past 5:00 pm out here on the West Coast, that special time of the day. ~$heopleNation

reply to post by ChuckNasty

I don't agree with you, so until you can develop proof instead of assumptions.. I posted proof that chaff have no adverse effect to the environment. Where is your debunking proof?

I'm sorry, did you miss the article I posted above? You post one old military study and I'm supposed to fall over faint from the power of it. Your proof isn't really worth a whole lot, IMO, because a fox who makes a study as to whether his presence is harmful to the henhouse usually comes to the conclusion that he is not. But whatever.

Let me post the pertinent part of the article which has escaped your attention:

The Army in 1992 concluded that further study was needed to determine long-term risks and chronic exposure potential.

University of Maryland and University of Delaware researchers asked that the Navy study chaff after a lab experiment in which the fibers killed 48-hour-old oyster larvae

www.lasvegassun.com...

Funny that you mention brownie points. I got quite a few of them for bringing this subject up and butting heads with posters such as yourself. It's been super fun, buddy, but since you have made up your mind that chaff is harmless, while I maintain that I suspect that it isn't, we are at an impasse.

Therefore, Mr. Nasty, rather than waste my time going round and round with this same information, I suggest that we agree to disagree. BTW, this was in the rant section.....and my entire thread WAS one long argument, cause, you know, that's how it's done. I start a thread with a hypothesis, a few people with burrs under their saddle come on and get off on arguing, and I stick to my guns, because I believe in what I post, otherwise I wouldn't have bothered.

SheopleNation

ChuckNasty
Really reaching on that response aren't you..

Still going on about this, why exactly?

Was going to ask you the same thing.. YOU are too funny.

Have you called your local EPA to see if Chaff was used in that area? How about reporting the crazy things you saw instead of doing nothing about it?

Because only a complete imbecile would report something, when they do not even know what that something is.

What about calling the local EPA and inquire if they know about any military aircraft deploying chaff in the area. As for reporting it - you chose to do nothing. Only a complete imbecile would be afraid to report 'what they saw and noticed' A concerned citizen would report anything they knew to the authorities, whether they knew 100% what it was or not. Seeing 'threads' in the trees and falling on your windshield isn't normal (no I'm not stating you said it was, just stating a fact), only an imbecile would be careless to NOT report any anomaly.

It would have been bad A if you had solid proof to go along with the OP's thinking. Instead, you were too tired

Actually it was me using common sense and being careful, but whatever floats your boat.

Then your common sense is flawed. And it would have been bad A if you had proof, but you don't.

Back at you. Actually I just made myself a bloody Mary. It's just past 5:00 pm out here on the West Coast, that special time of the day.

~$heopleNation

So these silly line by line arguments are going to continue? Be sure to pick the lines you want to argue about and ignore the rest...wait, you already do.

ChuckNasty
So these silly line by line arguments are going to continue? Be sure to pick the lines you want to argue about and ignore the rest...wait, you already do.

One sometimes has to sift through the nonsense when dealing with folks who suffer from acute anti-comprehension syndrome. It saves much appreciated time that would otherwise be spent arguing with a fool. LMAO!

Nah it's not personal bro, it just seems that you like to argue just to argue? Kind of like what the OP hinted at. You see, Some things are worth one's passion, and are worth arguing about yes, but there comes a time when it's just better off leaving well enough alone.

What some stranger on the internet seen, or in your opinion did not see, at the end of the day makes absolutely no difference in the grand scheme of things. It's a waste of time. That goes for both you and I's positions. Ego is a bitch, believe me I know. ~$heopleNation

FissionSurplus
reply to post by ChuckNasty

 

I don't agree with you, so until you can develop proof instead of assumptions.. I posted proof that chaff have no adverse effect to the environment. Where is your debunking proof?

I'm sorry, did you miss the article I posted above?

The article that had no proof and just stories? I agree, that is solid proof - NOT.

You post one old military study and I'm supposed to fall over faint from the power of it. Your proof isn't really worth a whole lot, IMO, because a fox who makes a study as to whether his presence is harmful to the henhouse usually comes to the conclusion that he is not. But whatever.

The study is newer than your article... But you didn't even bother reading it. Can't handle any truth? Here's a link in-case your google finger is broken Link to study PDF So my proof is newer than your proof - but keep on believing in fairy tales, you have that right.

Let me post the pertinent part of the article which has escaped your attention:

The Army in 1992 concluded that further study was needed to determine long-term risks and chronic exposure potential.

University of Maryland and University of Delaware researchers asked that the Navy study chaff after a lab experiment in which the fibers killed 48-hour-old oyster larvae

www.lasvegassun.com...

Funny that you mention brownie points. I got quite a few of them for bringing this subject up and butting heads with posters such as yourself. It's been super fun, buddy, but since you have made up your mind that chaff is harmless, while I maintain that I suspect that it isn't, we are at an impasse.

Still waiting for your proof so I can 'fall over faint from the power of it.'

Therefore, Mr. Nasty, rather than waste my time going round and round with this same information, I suggest that we agree to disagree.

I agree - that you have no proof to back up your rant, but I have proof (from the same people doing the damage, amazed you didn't take that route...) from a bunch of university nerds.

BTW, this was in the rant section.....and my entire thread WAS one long argument, cause, you know, that's how it's done. I start a thread with a hypothesis, a few people with burrs under their saddle come on and get off on arguing, and I stick to my guns, because I believe in what I post, otherwise I wouldn't have bothered.

I stick to my guns too - but my guns are backed with proof & I think that your guns are total imagination.

It has been fun.