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"Red Cry": A new and explosive documentary on the US genocide against the Lakota nations.

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posted on Jan, 21 2014 @ 09:36 AM
link   

kenpos12

alldaylong
However you are reaping the benefits of those who did.




Correct me if I'm wrong here but arent you from the UK?

You're not reaping the benefits of what the "British Empire" did to many native peoples around the world?



Could you please indicate what "benefits" you think i may be reaping?

Please start the list here...................




posted on Jan, 21 2014 @ 09:45 AM
link   

NavyDoc

FatherStacks

NavyDoc
In the long run, I'd say individual freedom and self reliance, removal of the reservation system, and full integration into society would be the best for individual native Americans.


While I agree with you on the individual freedom and self-reliance, and perhaps to some extent the removal of the reservation system, I would respectfully disagree on the full integration part. My great grandmother was Lakota, and as a child she was ripped from the reservation and sent to a "reform" school in Pennsylvania. There they systematically degraded her identity as native woman in order to force assimilation. She bore that pain of conflicted feelings about her identity every day of her life.

There is still the problem on native children being taking from their homes and adopted into white homes. As a result of such policies (and many others), integration/assimilation talk is a sensitive subject for many Native Americans and rightfully so.


You are right of course. I honestly didn't mean forced integration but more the integration that would occur over time if people where independent and self reliant and not stuck in some corner in the middle of nowhere with only people exactly like them. Get them out, encourage going to university, let them have their own farm or business or whatever and they will integrate on their own just like a myriad of formerly marginalized ethnic and cultural groups have throughout history. Isolation on the reservation will continue the stagnation we see today.


i would respectfully disagree with you there Doc. the stagnation you talk of is due directly to poverty, lack of jobs and tribal government corruption and not isolation. besides we are not isolated by fences nor walls. no we are not isolated, nor insulated from the same vice that tears down all other peoples globally, corruption and wealthy pricks controlling the world, if you really want to see the core disease and not waste time on analyzing symptoms.



posted on Jan, 21 2014 @ 09:50 AM
link   

OceanSpray

NavyDoc

FatherStacks

NavyDoc
In the long run, I'd say individual freedom and self reliance, removal of the reservation system, and full integration into society would be the best for individual native Americans.


While I agree with you on the individual freedom and self-reliance, and perhaps to some extent the removal of the reservation system, I would respectfully disagree on the full integration part. My great grandmother was Lakota, and as a child she was ripped from the reservation and sent to a "reform" school in Pennsylvania. There they systematically degraded her identity as native woman in order to force assimilation. She bore that pain of conflicted feelings about her identity every day of her life.

There is still the problem on native children being taking from their homes and adopted into white homes. As a result of such policies (and many others), integration/assimilation talk is a sensitive subject for many Native Americans and rightfully so.


You are right of course. I honestly didn't mean forced integration but more the integration that would occur over time if people where independent and self reliant and not stuck in some corner in the middle of nowhere with only people exactly like them. Get them out, encourage going to university, let them have their own farm or business or whatever and they will integrate on their own just like a myriad of formerly marginalized ethnic and cultural groups have throughout history. Isolation on the reservation will continue the stagnation we see today.


i would respectfully disagree with you there Doc. the stagnation you talk of is due directly to poverty, lack of jobs and tribal government corruption and not isolation. besides we are not isolated by fences nor walls. no we are not isolated, nor insulated from the same vice that tears down all other peoples globally, corruption and wealthy pricks controlling the world, if you really want to see the core disease and not waste time on analyzing symptoms.


I'd humbly suggest that there are more ways to be isolated than by walls and fences. Poverty, lack of jobs, tribal government corruption are all part and parcel with having a community that is apart from the rest. Individual "fiefdoms" as it were. Of course you get all of those problems in greater society, but when a microcosm of people are set apart, those problems can be magnified.



posted on Jan, 21 2014 @ 09:57 AM
link   

NavyDoc

OceanSpray

NavyDoc

FatherStacks

NavyDoc
In the long run, I'd say individual freedom and self reliance, removal of the reservation system, and full integration into society would be the best for individual native Americans.


While I agree with you on the individual freedom and self-reliance, and perhaps to some extent the removal of the reservation system, I would respectfully disagree on the full integration part. My great grandmother was Lakota, and as a child she was ripped from the reservation and sent to a "reform" school in Pennsylvania. There they systematically degraded her identity as native woman in order to force assimilation. She bore that pain of conflicted feelings about her identity every day of her life.

There is still the problem on native children being taking from their homes and adopted into white homes. As a result of such policies (and many others), integration/assimilation talk is a sensitive subject for many Native Americans and rightfully so.


You are right of course. I honestly didn't mean forced integration but more the integration that would occur over time if people where independent and self reliant and not stuck in some corner in the middle of nowhere with only people exactly like them. Get them out, encourage going to university, let them have their own farm or business or whatever and they will integrate on their own just like a myriad of formerly marginalized ethnic and cultural groups have throughout history. Isolation on the reservation will continue the stagnation we see today.


i would respectfully disagree with you there Doc. the stagnation you talk of is due directly to poverty, lack of jobs and tribal government corruption and not isolation. besides we are not isolated by fences nor walls. no we are not isolated, nor insulated from the same vice that tears down all other peoples globally, corruption and wealthy pricks controlling the world, if you really want to see the core disease and not waste time on analyzing symptoms.


I'd humbly suggest that there are more ways to be isolated than by walls and fences. Poverty, lack of jobs, tribal government corruption are all part and parcel with having a community that is apart from the rest. Individual "fiefdoms" as it were. Of course you get all of those problems in greater society, but when a microcosm of people are set apart, those problems can be magnified.


well i'm unsure how we could be isolated and not be isolated at the same time, but anyway... we are set apart because we choose to be, we do not wish to live like mainstream idiot's, consumer robots or the like. we do not believe in debt based slavery. i believe there's a lot to be said of being capable of living together, without being exactly like everyone else verbatim, being integrated and not assimilated.



posted on Jan, 21 2014 @ 09:58 AM
link   
reply to post by halfoldman
 


Thank you for posting the documentary, halfoldman. I had not heard of that one before and will watch it when my better half comes home this evening. He and I currently live in Western NY between 2 reservations and issues concerning the Native Americans (nationally but locally more specifically) are of concern to us.

@ Asktheanimals - Spot on. I 100% agree with your statement and I would also add this because the issue, I believe, goes even deeper:

@the OP - I realize that the documentary is specifically about the Lakota but the issues you present in your written OP, I believe, are issues that affect every single tribe in the country. It is important for those who do not know how the relationship between the US Gov't and Tribal Govt's is supposed to be setup, to get aquainted with that complex and dysfunctional relationship. It may help to understand things a little bit better especially if you live outside the US, to have a look at the Bureau of Indian Affairs Website. On the homepage it states this:

The United States has a unique legal and political relationship with Indian tribes and Alaska Native entities as provided by the Constitution of the United States, treaties, court decisions and Federal statutes. Within the government-to-government relationship, Indian Affairs provides services directly or through contracts, grants, or compacts to 566 Federally recognized tribes.
(Bold mine)

Basically, this states that each individual Indian Nation (Tribal Government) is seen as sovereign, seperate from the federal government, a country within a country if you will. For benefit of brevity, the relationship between the US Gov't and (let's say) the South African government should be no different than between the US Gov't and, for example, the Oneida Indian Nation Tribal Gov't. Keep in mind this 'government to government' idea only works when it it adventageous to the US Gov't just as it is with any other sovereign nation we deal with. Also, and someone please correct me if I am wrong here, the ONLY US Federal Gov't entity, by the Consitution, allowed to enteract with any Native American Tribe on any issue is the Bureau of Indian Affairs?

Taking that and addressing one of the issues you raise in your written OP of housing, let's take a deeper look into that. Here is the Bureau of Indian Affairs webpage as it pertains to that very issue: Bureau of Indian Affairs: Division of Human Services. In reading that page you learn that:

Funds are distributed to tribes through Public Law 93-638 contracts or self-determination compacts or to Bureau of Indian Affairs offices for the delivery of program services to the most needy eligible applicants.
This leads me to believe that an individual in need of housing assistance petitions the Tribal Gov't, who petitions the Federal Gov't for the money. The money is delivered to the Tribal Gov't to be distributed to the person/family in need... maybe.... only if the Tribal Gov't is not just as crooked as the US Gov't.

Let's not forget that a goverment, be it Federal, State, Local or Tribal, is still a Government subject to nepitism, embezzelment and out right dirty dealings with citizens under their governance. This article in the Buffalo News about the last Seneca Nation Tribe presidential election points this out perfectly, and there are many more incidents of things like this happening. As you can see in the article the past president, Porter, thinks himself too good to both live 'on reservation' or send his children to a school on the reservation opting to send them to one of the most expensive private schools in the area. Not to mention the other issues pointed out in the sourced story. In my mind, his disconnect with the people he governed is no different than Obama's disconnect to me.

The overall dirty dealings here, sound very much like the Seneca Nation of Indians took a couple of rotten practices from the US Federal Government. With friends like these, who needs enemies? There are many stories like this locally, I might add, and I would wager a pretty penny that these kinds of stories can be found in many (if not all) Tribal Governments across the US.

So, you see, while I am totally and completely disgusted with the US Gov't over this (and I heap a huge steaming pile of blame on them for the problems the Native Americans face today) I am equally as disgusted how Tribal Governments can perpetrate the same injustices on their own people. How is the average resident on a reservation, be it Lakota, Seneca, Oneida etc., supposed to battle both Federal AND Tribal Governments, being run much the same way, to make things better?



posted on Jan, 21 2014 @ 10:10 AM
link   

OceanSpray

NavyDoc

OceanSpray

NavyDoc

FatherStacks

NavyDoc
In the long run, I'd say individual freedom and self reliance, removal of the reservation system, and full integration into society would be the best for individual native Americans.


While I agree with you on the individual freedom and self-reliance, and perhaps to some extent the removal of the reservation system, I would respectfully disagree on the full integration part. My great grandmother was Lakota, and as a child she was ripped from the reservation and sent to a "reform" school in Pennsylvania. There they systematically degraded her identity as native woman in order to force assimilation. She bore that pain of conflicted feelings about her identity every day of her life.

There is still the problem on native children being taking from their homes and adopted into white homes. As a result of such policies (and many others), integration/assimilation talk is a sensitive subject for many Native Americans and rightfully so.


You are right of course. I honestly didn't mean forced integration but more the integration that would occur over time if people where independent and self reliant and not stuck in some corner in the middle of nowhere with only people exactly like them. Get them out, encourage going to university, let them have their own farm or business or whatever and they will integrate on their own just like a myriad of formerly marginalized ethnic and cultural groups have throughout history. Isolation on the reservation will continue the stagnation we see today.


i would respectfully disagree with you there Doc. the stagnation you talk of is due directly to poverty, lack of jobs and tribal government corruption and not isolation. besides we are not isolated by fences nor walls. no we are not isolated, nor insulated from the same vice that tears down all other peoples globally, corruption and wealthy pricks controlling the world, if you really want to see the core disease and not waste time on analyzing symptoms.


I'd humbly suggest that there are more ways to be isolated than by walls and fences. Poverty, lack of jobs, tribal government corruption are all part and parcel with having a community that is apart from the rest. Individual "fiefdoms" as it were. Of course you get all of those problems in greater society, but when a microcosm of people are set apart, those problems can be magnified.


well i'm unsure how we could be isolated and not be isolated at the same time, but anyway... we are set apart because we choose to be, we do not wish to live like mainstream idiot's, consumer robots or the like. we do not believe in debt based slavery. i believe there's a lot to be said of being capable of living together, without being exactly like everyone else verbatim, being integrated and not assimilated.


One can assimilate into society and be independent of tribe or reservation or the government without being all of those things.

You say that you (as a whole) choose to be set apart and not like mainstream folks but at the same time talk about the joblessness, alcoholism, drug abuse, and corrupt tribal elders Sounds like more of a dystopia than "being like the mainstream."

Cut out the reservation system and those corrupt tribal elders have no power or money. Help individuals to be independent and they won't have to rely on a corrupt and uncaring government. Then they can choose to live with a like minded group of their tribe or live in the suburbs with a 9-5 job or have their own independent farm or whatever they choose to do. Lack of individualism is what hurts so many of these people.



posted on Jan, 21 2014 @ 10:18 AM
link   

NavyDoc

OceanSpray

NavyDoc

OceanSpray

NavyDoc

FatherStacks

NavyDoc
In the long run, I'd say individual freedom and self reliance, removal of the reservation system, and full integration into society would be the best for individual native Americans.


While I agree with you on the individual freedom and self-reliance, and perhaps to some extent the removal of the reservation system, I would respectfully disagree on the full integration part. My great grandmother was Lakota, and as a child she was ripped from the reservation and sent to a "reform" school in Pennsylvania. There they systematically degraded her identity as native woman in order to force assimilation. She bore that pain of conflicted feelings about her identity every day of her life.

There is still the problem on native children being taking from their homes and adopted into white homes. As a result of such policies (and many others), integration/assimilation talk is a sensitive subject for many Native Americans and rightfully so.


You are right of course. I honestly didn't mean forced integration but more the integration that would occur over time if people where independent and self reliant and not stuck in some corner in the middle of nowhere with only people exactly like them. Get them out, encourage going to university, let them have their own farm or business or whatever and they will integrate on their own just like a myriad of formerly marginalized ethnic and cultural groups have throughout history. Isolation on the reservation will continue the stagnation we see today.


i would respectfully disagree with you there Doc. the stagnation you talk of is due directly to poverty, lack of jobs and tribal government corruption and not isolation. besides we are not isolated by fences nor walls. no we are not isolated, nor insulated from the same vice that tears down all other peoples globally, corruption and wealthy pricks controlling the world, if you really want to see the core disease and not waste time on analyzing symptoms.


I'd humbly suggest that there are more ways to be isolated than by walls and fences. Poverty, lack of jobs, tribal government corruption are all part and parcel with having a community that is apart from the rest. Individual "fiefdoms" as it were. Of course you get all of those problems in greater society, but when a microcosm of people are set apart, those problems can be magnified.


well i'm unsure how we could be isolated and not be isolated at the same time, but anyway... we are set apart because we choose to be, we do not wish to live like mainstream idiot's, consumer robots or the like. we do not believe in debt based slavery. i believe there's a lot to be said of being capable of living together, without being exactly like everyone else verbatim, being integrated and not assimilated.


One can assimilate into society and be independent of tribe or reservation or the government without being all of those things.

You say that you (as a whole) choose to be set apart and not like mainstream folks but at the same time talk about the joblessness, alcoholism, drug abuse, and corrupt tribal elders Sounds like more of a dystopia than "being like the mainstream."

Cut out the reservation system and those corrupt tribal elders have no power or money. Help individuals to be independent and they won't have to rely on a corrupt and uncaring government. Then they can choose to live with a like minded group of their tribe or live in the suburbs with a 9-5 job or have their own independent farm or whatever they choose to do. Lack of individualism is what hurts so many of these people.


so we should have no government then? btw we were independent just fine before being invaded, so i don't see that being a problem. i'm unsure of what race\races you hail from but i would be willing to bet you don't want to see your native lands dissolved and forgotten, due to isolation of course.

ok all you Irish, you need to assimilate or be isolated and you will fall do to your isolation and not us insisting you forget all that Irish stuff.

ok all you Germans, Japanese, Mexican, forget your heritage and become non isolated, assimilate now while you still have a chance!!!!!!!!!!

how silly does that sound? very



posted on Jan, 21 2014 @ 10:28 AM
link   
reply to post by halfoldman
 


I know that corruption can be a obstacle, but there has to be a way for these people to turn things around somehow.

I lived right nest to a Rez in Wisconsin (Near the Dells) back in the late seventies /early eighties and was saddened by how the local native Americans were treated. Of course, some of their own actions did bring it about, but it was the few bad apples that were bringing down the rest. I heard plenty of racist remarks from all races concerning the local tribe. It drove me nuts.

But then they banded together and started policing up their own. They formed lobbyists group to speak on their behalf and started buying local businesses and repurposing them into something that the local area needed.

Then the Government allowed them to open a Casino and they took off like a rocket. Housing improved, each member of the tribe recieved shares and what once was a pretty crappy looking area, now looks a hell of a lot better. I personally think it still looks crappy as it's a tourist trap...LOL. But many are now employed where before they were not.

I find it ironic that many who used to have nothing nice to say about the people now work for them and sing praises.



posted on Jan, 21 2014 @ 10:32 AM
link   
reply to post by FatherStacks
 



I understand historiography. I'm not offended by your challenges, rather I welcome it and view is as responsible discourse. But with all due respect, I'm not just pulling this out of my ass. The body of literature supporting it is fairly respectable. I don't have access to databases like ebsco host, and many of my notebooks and history texts are at my parent's place right now.


Thank you and I appreciate that you don't take anything about my challenging to be personal. It never is and I'm open to being corrected..as it seems, I may well turn out to be in this case.


I'll look up the references later when I can but I did want to pass my thanks for the reply with solid stuff I can get my paws around and sink my teeth into for some serious context to this. I'm really interested to learn more.

*Sorry OP, if this went a little off the edge of the highway for your intent with thread. My bad if so.. Fatherstacks just made such an interesting point to dovetail with the OP material, I wanted to hear a bit more.



posted on Jan, 21 2014 @ 10:38 AM
link   
Well.. I watched the entire video without turning my eyes away for even a moment. I can only say, at this time, that I am both horrified and saddened by the stories I was told. There is so much to ponder now, moments after the closing statements of the film that I can only make one myself and it is this:

Justice is blind.



posted on Jan, 21 2014 @ 10:46 AM
link   

OceanSpray

NavyDoc

OceanSpray

NavyDoc

OceanSpray

NavyDoc

FatherStacks

NavyDoc
In the long run, I'd say individual freedom and self reliance, removal of the reservation system, and full integration into society would be the best for individual native Americans.


While I agree with you on the individual freedom and self-reliance, and perhaps to some extent the removal of the reservation system, I would respectfully disagree on the full integration part. My great grandmother was Lakota, and as a child she was ripped from the reservation and sent to a "reform" school in Pennsylvania. There they systematically degraded her identity as native woman in order to force assimilation. She bore that pain of conflicted feelings about her identity every day of her life.

There is still the problem on native children being taking from their homes and adopted into white homes. As a result of such policies (and many others), integration/assimilation talk is a sensitive subject for many Native Americans and rightfully so.


You are right of course. I honestly didn't mean forced integration but more the integration that would occur over time if people where independent and self reliant and not stuck in some corner in the middle of nowhere with only people exactly like them. Get them out, encourage going to university, let them have their own farm or business or whatever and they will integrate on their own just like a myriad of formerly marginalized ethnic and cultural groups have throughout history. Isolation on the reservation will continue the stagnation we see today.


i would respectfully disagree with you there Doc. the stagnation you talk of is due directly to poverty, lack of jobs and tribal government corruption and not isolation. besides we are not isolated by fences nor walls. no we are not isolated, nor insulated from the same vice that tears down all other peoples globally, corruption and wealthy pricks controlling the world, if you really want to see the core disease and not waste time on analyzing symptoms.


I'd humbly suggest that there are more ways to be isolated than by walls and fences. Poverty, lack of jobs, tribal government corruption are all part and parcel with having a community that is apart from the rest. Individual "fiefdoms" as it were. Of course you get all of those problems in greater society, but when a microcosm of people are set apart, those problems can be magnified.


well i'm unsure how we could be isolated and not be isolated at the same time, but anyway... we are set apart because we choose to be, we do not wish to live like mainstream idiot's, consumer robots or the like. we do not believe in debt based slavery. i believe there's a lot to be said of being capable of living together, without being exactly like everyone else verbatim, being integrated and not assimilated.


One can assimilate into society and be independent of tribe or reservation or the government without being all of those things.

You say that you (as a whole) choose to be set apart and not like mainstream folks but at the same time talk about the joblessness, alcoholism, drug abuse, and corrupt tribal elders Sounds like more of a dystopia than "being like the mainstream."

Cut out the reservation system and those corrupt tribal elders have no power or money. Help individuals to be independent and they won't have to rely on a corrupt and uncaring government. Then they can choose to live with a like minded group of their tribe or live in the suburbs with a 9-5 job or have their own independent farm or whatever they choose to do. Lack of individualism is what hurts so many of these people.


so we should have no government then? btw we were independent just fine before being invaded, so i don't see that being a problem. i'm unsure of what race\races you hail from but i would be willing to bet you don't want to see your native lands dissolved and forgotten, due to isolation of course.

ok all you Irish, you need to assimilate or be isolated and you will fall do to your isolation and not us insisting you forget all that Irish stuff.

ok all you Germans, Japanese, Mexican, forget your heritage and become non isolated, assimilate now while you still have a chance!!!!!!!!!!

how silly does that sound? very


Millions of Americans from various cultures still maintain their cultural identity, religion, belief systems, and history and traditions and are still assimilated quite well, so I don't think you have a point.



posted on Jan, 21 2014 @ 10:51 AM
link   

NavyDoc

OceanSpray

NavyDoc

OceanSpray

NavyDoc

OceanSpray

NavyDoc

FatherStacks

NavyDoc
In the long run, I'd say individual freedom and self reliance, removal of the reservation system, and full integration into society would be the best for individual native Americans.


While I agree with you on the individual freedom and self-reliance, and perhaps to some extent the removal of the reservation system, I would respectfully disagree on the full integration part. My great grandmother was Lakota, and as a child she was ripped from the reservation and sent to a "reform" school in Pennsylvania. There they systematically degraded her identity as native woman in order to force assimilation. She bore that pain of conflicted feelings about her identity every day of her life.

There is still the problem on native children being taking from their homes and adopted into white homes. As a result of such policies (and many others), integration/assimilation talk is a sensitive subject for many Native Americans and rightfully so.


You are right of course. I honestly didn't mean forced integration but more the integration that would occur over time if people where independent and self reliant and not stuck in some corner in the middle of nowhere with only people exactly like them. Get them out, encourage going to university, let them have their own farm or business or whatever and they will integrate on their own just like a myriad of formerly marginalized ethnic and cultural groups have throughout history. Isolation on the reservation will continue the stagnation we see today.


i would respectfully disagree with you there Doc. the stagnation you talk of is due directly to poverty, lack of jobs and tribal government corruption and not isolation. besides we are not isolated by fences nor walls. no we are not isolated, nor insulated from the same vice that tears down all other peoples globally, corruption and wealthy pricks controlling the world, if you really want to see the core disease and not waste time on analyzing symptoms.


I'd humbly suggest that there are more ways to be isolated than by walls and fences. Poverty, lack of jobs, tribal government corruption are all part and parcel with having a community that is apart from the rest. Individual "fiefdoms" as it were. Of course you get all of those problems in greater society, but when a microcosm of people are set apart, those problems can be magnified.


well i'm unsure how we could be isolated and not be isolated at the same time, but anyway... we are set apart because we choose to be, we do not wish to live like mainstream idiot's, consumer robots or the like. we do not believe in debt based slavery. i believe there's a lot to be said of being capable of living together, without being exactly like everyone else verbatim, being integrated and not assimilated.


One can assimilate into society and be independent of tribe or reservation or the government without being all of those things.

You say that you (as a whole) choose to be set apart and not like mainstream folks but at the same time talk about the joblessness, alcoholism, drug abuse, and corrupt tribal elders Sounds like more of a dystopia than "being like the mainstream."

Cut out the reservation system and those corrupt tribal elders have no power or money. Help individuals to be independent and they won't have to rely on a corrupt and uncaring government. Then they can choose to live with a like minded group of their tribe or live in the suburbs with a 9-5 job or have their own independent farm or whatever they choose to do. Lack of individualism is what hurts so many of these people.


so we should have no government then? btw we were independent just fine before being invaded, so i don't see that being a problem. i'm unsure of what race\races you hail from but i would be willing to bet you don't want to see your native lands dissolved and forgotten, due to isolation of course.

ok all you Irish, you need to assimilate or be isolated and you will fall do to your isolation and not us insisting you forget all that Irish stuff.

ok all you Germans, Japanese, Mexican, forget your heritage and become non isolated, assimilate now while you still have a chance!!!!!!!!!!

how silly does that sound? very


Millions of Americans from various cultures still maintain their cultural identity, religion, belief systems, and history and traditions and are still assimilated quite well, so I don't think you have a point.


Why the hell should they assimilate? It's their land, you stole it from them and then made them second class citizens in the bits of land you let them keep. If anything, they should completely refuse to acknowledge you. I would if I were in their position.



posted on Jan, 21 2014 @ 10:56 AM
link   

NavyDoc

OceanSpray

NavyDoc

OceanSpray

NavyDoc

OceanSpray

NavyDoc

FatherStacks

NavyDoc
In the long run, I'd say individual freedom and self reliance, removal of the reservation system, and full integration into society would be the best for individual native Americans.


While I agree with you on the individual freedom and self-reliance, and perhaps to some extent the removal of the reservation system, I would respectfully disagree on the full integration part. My great grandmother was Lakota, and as a child she was ripped from the reservation and sent to a "reform" school in Pennsylvania. There they systematically degraded her identity as native woman in order to force assimilation. She bore that pain of conflicted feelings about her identity every day of her life.

There is still the problem on native children being taking from their homes and adopted into white homes. As a result of such policies (and many others), integration/assimilation talk is a sensitive subject for many Native Americans and rightfully so.


You are right of course. I honestly didn't mean forced integration but more the integration that would occur over time if people where independent and self reliant and not stuck in some corner in the middle of nowhere with only people exactly like them. Get them out, encourage going to university, let them have their own farm or business or whatever and they will integrate on their own just like a myriad of formerly marginalized ethnic and cultural groups have throughout history. Isolation on the reservation will continue the stagnation we see today.


i would respectfully disagree with you there Doc. the stagnation you talk of is due directly to poverty, lack of jobs and tribal government corruption and not isolation. besides we are not isolated by fences nor walls. no we are not isolated, nor insulated from the same vice that tears down all other peoples globally, corruption and wealthy pricks controlling the world, if you really want to see the core disease and not waste time on analyzing symptoms.


I'd humbly suggest that there are more ways to be isolated than by walls and fences. Poverty, lack of jobs, tribal government corruption are all part and parcel with having a community that is apart from the rest. Individual "fiefdoms" as it were. Of course you get all of those problems in greater society, but when a microcosm of people are set apart, those problems can be magnified.


well i'm unsure how we could be isolated and not be isolated at the same time, but anyway... we are set apart because we choose to be, we do not wish to live like mainstream idiot's, consumer robots or the like. we do not believe in debt based slavery. i believe there's a lot to be said of being capable of living together, without being exactly like everyone else verbatim, being integrated and not assimilated.


One can assimilate into society and be independent of tribe or reservation or the government without being all of those things.

You say that you (as a whole) choose to be set apart and not like mainstream folks but at the same time talk about the joblessness, alcoholism, drug abuse, and corrupt tribal elders Sounds like more of a dystopia than "being like the mainstream."

Cut out the reservation system and those corrupt tribal elders have no power or money. Help individuals to be independent and they won't have to rely on a corrupt and uncaring government. Then they can choose to live with a like minded group of their tribe or live in the suburbs with a 9-5 job or have their own independent farm or whatever they choose to do. Lack of individualism is what hurts so many of these people.


so we should have no government then? btw we were independent just fine before being invaded, so i don't see that being a problem. i'm unsure of what race\races you hail from but i would be willing to bet you don't want to see your native lands dissolved and forgotten, due to isolation of course.

ok all you Irish, you need to assimilate or be isolated and you will fall do to your isolation and not us insisting you forget all that Irish stuff.

ok all you Germans, Japanese, Mexican, forget your heritage and become non isolated, assimilate now while you still have a chance!!!!!!!!!!

how silly does that sound? very


Millions of Americans from various cultures still maintain their cultural identity, religion, belief systems, and history and traditions and are still assimilated quite well, so I don't think you have a point.


yes they certainly do and they still have a homeland as well....

what nationality are you if you don't mind me asking, i'm Seneca, Italian, German and Irish myself and i celebrate them all. just hope Germany, Italy and Ireland don't disappear or get isolated.
hahahaha

you see that's what a reservation is, it's our individual tribal homelands, they just happen to be surrounded by America and that's all good, we truly do have nothing against anyone, collectively.



posted on Jan, 21 2014 @ 11:34 AM
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reply to post by FatherStacks
 


I would not change the sovereignty of the reservations. That is the LAST thing you would ever want to change given the state of the United States government.

I believe as individuals we must find a way to be ourselves, yet, live in a world with all manner of different types of people. We never have to stop being who we are, just, be ourselves in the world we find ourselves in, to the benefit of self and community.

I am a person often caught between two worlds, and I take the best of both and become myself through that, in a manner that is good for me. I understand being a bit lost as to who I am supposed to be, because I have spent much time there... In the end, you find your own way, in a world surrounded by people of different beliefs, and different ways.

I believe saying that some elders abuse their position of power and authority, so full integration into a system wrought with abuse of power and position must be accomplished, is wrong. Native Americans must find the way to deal with those abuses themselves... but throwing away their own opportunities is an incorrect stance.
edit on 21-1-2014 by OpinionatedB because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 21 2014 @ 11:42 AM
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Rollie

NavyDoc

OceanSpray

NavyDoc

OceanSpray

NavyDoc

OceanSpray

NavyDoc

FatherStacks

NavyDoc
In the long run, I'd say individual freedom and self reliance, removal of the reservation system, and full integration into society would be the best for individual native Americans.


While I agree with you on the individual freedom and self-reliance, and perhaps to some extent the removal of the reservation system, I would respectfully disagree on the full integration part. My great grandmother was Lakota, and as a child she was ripped from the reservation and sent to a "reform" school in Pennsylvania. There they systematically degraded her identity as native woman in order to force assimilation. She bore that pain of conflicted feelings about her identity every day of her life.

There is still the problem on native children being taking from their homes and adopted into white homes. As a result of such policies (and many others), integration/assimilation talk is a sensitive subject for many Native Americans and rightfully so.


You are right of course. I honestly didn't mean forced integration but more the integration that would occur over time if people where independent and self reliant and not stuck in some corner in the middle of nowhere with only people exactly like them. Get them out, encourage going to university, let them have their own farm or business or whatever and they will integrate on their own just like a myriad of formerly marginalized ethnic and cultural groups have throughout history. Isolation on the reservation will continue the stagnation we see today.


i would respectfully disagree with you there Doc. the stagnation you talk of is due directly to poverty, lack of jobs and tribal government corruption and not isolation. besides we are not isolated by fences nor walls. no we are not isolated, nor insulated from the same vice that tears down all other peoples globally, corruption and wealthy pricks controlling the world, if you really want to see the core disease and not waste time on analyzing symptoms.


I'd humbly suggest that there are more ways to be isolated than by walls and fences. Poverty, lack of jobs, tribal government corruption are all part and parcel with having a community that is apart from the rest. Individual "fiefdoms" as it were. Of course you get all of those problems in greater society, but when a microcosm of people are set apart, those problems can be magnified.


well i'm unsure how we could be isolated and not be isolated at the same time, but anyway... we are set apart because we choose to be, we do not wish to live like mainstream idiot's, consumer robots or the like. we do not believe in debt based slavery. i believe there's a lot to be said of being capable of living together, without being exactly like everyone else verbatim, being integrated and not assimilated.


One can assimilate into society and be independent of tribe or reservation or the government without being all of those things.

You say that you (as a whole) choose to be set apart and not like mainstream folks but at the same time talk about the joblessness, alcoholism, drug abuse, and corrupt tribal elders Sounds like more of a dystopia than "being like the mainstream."

Cut out the reservation system and those corrupt tribal elders have no power or money. Help individuals to be independent and they won't have to rely on a corrupt and uncaring government. Then they can choose to live with a like minded group of their tribe or live in the suburbs with a 9-5 job or have their own independent farm or whatever they choose to do. Lack of individualism is what hurts so many of these people.


so we should have no government then? btw we were independent just fine before being invaded, so i don't see that being a problem. i'm unsure of what race\races you hail from but i would be willing to bet you don't want to see your native lands dissolved and forgotten, due to isolation of course.

ok all you Irish, you need to assimilate or be isolated and you will fall do to your isolation and not us insisting you forget all that Irish stuff.

ok all you Germans, Japanese, Mexican, forget your heritage and become non isolated, assimilate now while you still have a chance!!!!!!!!!!

how silly does that sound? very


Millions of Americans from various cultures still maintain their cultural identity, religion, belief systems, and history and traditions and are still assimilated quite well, so I don't think you have a point.


Why the hell should they assimilate? It's their land, you stole it from them and then made them second class citizens in the bits of land you let them keep. If anything, they should completely refuse to acknowledge you. I would if I were in their position.


I didn't steal anything from anyone. This is where you lose any semblance of logic or rational thought. I'm advocating making them first class citizens. You? Not so much.

What happened to the Native Americans was awful, no doubt about it. However, absent a time machine, there is nothing anyone can do about it. Improving the lives of individuals of native American decent from this point forward would involve making them as independent and self reliant as possible. Or do you care less about individuals and more about labels and group identities?



posted on Jan, 21 2014 @ 11:52 AM
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the2ofusr1
reply to post by halfoldman
 


Does it not seem strange to other peoples that the only ethnic group in the world to have support from all western cultures and governments are the Jews ..Now I have no problem with them having their own place to live and to practice their culture while at the same time these Corporate created Countries ie.USA ,Canada ,Australia, NewZeland have all waged war and genocide on other groups of peoples that stem from Babel ?

It boggles the mind ...


Not when you understand the USA and UK commonwealth are the tribes of Ephraim and Manasseh, which bare the name Israel forever, and that Judah (Jews) are their brothers.

God Bless,

To the OP.

Exceptional documentary, it is sad to watch but real. Sometimes the truth is hard to swallow. And although present day Americans are not responsible for the atrocities committed by our ancestors; my heart aches at the sight of suffering in any form towards any peoples and something needs to be done to save these human beings from their current conditions. I just cannot see what the US government can do under present conditions to change this situation.

God Bless,



posted on Jan, 21 2014 @ 12:24 PM
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reply to post by ElohimJD
 


Do you have a source for that .It would be interesting to read . peace



posted on Jan, 21 2014 @ 02:03 PM
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Here's a song about the Anglo-Boer War in South Africa (with English subtitles).

It's probably fantastic that different peoples had various forms of resistance.

I'm glad that the Afrikaners and their language survived, despite historical attempts to wipe it out.


edit on 21-1-2014 by halfoldman because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 21 2014 @ 02:17 PM
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reply to post by Asktheanimals
 



Foremost in the life and economy of the Lakota was the buffalo. Their existence depended entirely upon hunting them and once they neared extinction the lives of the Lakota suffered accordingly. In the course of a few short years they lost their source of food, clothing, culture - damn near everything. Even their tepees were made from the buffalo skins, their winter robes from the hides. When we killed the buffalo we ensured the demise of the plains tribes.

I believe the Lakota suffer from broken hearts and spirits. They no longer feel the relation they once did with the Earth or their ancestors. Until the buffalo returns in sufficient numbers for them to return to hunting and sustaining themselves as they did hundreds of years ago I don't believe they will ever be the people they once were. The fate of the buffalo is the fate of the Lakota, one does not exist without the other.


Wow, what an excellent post!

Here's a short but heartwarming video from about six years ago of a large number of bison "going home" to the Lakota reservation from Catalina Island. Don't be surprised if it makes you shed a few tears.

www.youtube.com...



posted on Jan, 21 2014 @ 02:18 PM
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halfoldman
I saw a recently released documentary titled "Red Cry", and parts of it really shocked me as an outsider to US issues.
It is focused on the Pine Ridge Reservation of the Lakota people.

Perhaps what shocked me the most is that I'd never heard of the "matriarchal elders" and the contemporary amount of assassinations, mistreatment and deliberate neglect of outspoken Lakota activists and elders.




I lived on the Pine Ridge Reservation for four years. It is even worse than anyone could depict in any documentary. It is the day to day living, the day to day thoughts and feelings in the minds of not only the Lakota people, but all Native tribes, that one can't see in a documentary.
Rampant suicide, alcoholism, domestic violence... throw out a sickness or a despair, and you will find it on any reservation. Pine Ridge happens to have been hit doubly hard with it all.

It is easy to forget, or for some people, easy to live in denial, that a genocide was committed. The ones who survived, of course were locked in to a perpetual poverty, isolation and despair. By whom? We all know by whom.

There is no mall, no movie theatre, no skating rink or any other type of this in Pine Ridge. It may be desolate, poverty stricken, and depressing as you wouldn't believe! But you won't find better hearts, better spirits than the Lakota. They are a beautiful people.

We could talk for days about the genocide, the aftermath, the resulting poverty and stagnation. But it is exhausting really.
But I am very glad to see this post!




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