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"Red Cry": A new and explosive documentary on the US genocide against the Lakota nations.

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posted on Jan, 21 2014 @ 08:33 AM
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alldaylong
However you are reaping the benefits of those who did.




Correct me if I'm wrong here but arent you from the UK?

You're not reaping the benefits of what the "British Empire" did to many native peoples around the world?




posted on Jan, 21 2014 @ 08:39 AM
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reply to post by NavyDoc
 

No, not defending apartheid, but making a comparison.

If apartheid was declared a crime against humanity (and rightfully so), then any country should at least not do worse than apartheid on human rights these days.



posted on Jan, 21 2014 @ 08:39 AM
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reply to post by NavyDoc
 


What I would like to see is everyone working together. We need to hit a restart button and let go of the past, and work toward a future that benefits everyone. ALL of us, and disregard and fight in good manner those who would stand against a better healthier future.

Reservation lands has something no one else has, and it can be used to a very definite benefit, and that is sovereignty. That is where the good lawyers come into play.

Its all in finding that nitch, one that is good for the soul of the indigenous peoples.. and coming together as one.
edit on 21-1-2014 by OpinionatedB because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 21 2014 @ 08:42 AM
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Ohhhh k, can't mention the people on ats without hate and anger, fault and more guilt and "we didn't do it" arguments crap so…

How about people just stop dumping there? Like they asked.
help them make textbooks with their culture as content, for them by them.
Remove to dump, clean the water up, compensate the people and go the hell away so they can be left alone.

Too much to ask?

?
?
edit on 21-1-2014 by Nephalim because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 21 2014 @ 08:45 AM
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reply to post by halfoldman
 


S&F op for the doc. The info in this documentary is not surprising to me .Being a northern neighbor and seeking out the histories of the Canadian tribes we find the same things but will have to admit that the Americans are more profound at it then the Canadians .I think its because they are more indoctrinated and have a larger populace to draw from. .

Does it not seem strange to other peoples that the only ethnic group in the world to have support from all western cultures and governments are the Jews ..Now I have no problem with them having their own place to live and to practice their culture while at the same time these Corporate created Countries ie.USA ,Canada ,Australia, NewZeland have all waged war and genocide on other groups of peoples that stem from Babel ?

It boggles the mind ...



posted on Jan, 21 2014 @ 08:48 AM
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reply to post by Nephalim
 


It's a weird thing to say I know, but.. I think it will be more than cleaning up a dump and leaving people the hell alone. The problem requires more.

It requires people to stand up to government, from all walks of life, and say nope... this is not right. It requires giving neighbors assistance when they need it. I think people "ignored" and "walked away" enough already.



posted on Jan, 21 2014 @ 08:50 AM
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Metallicus
Wait! You live in South Africa and are giving Americans advice on how to treat native peoples?

Oh the irony.



I was thinking precisely that same thing. I respect the OP, very much in fact. I've followed the OP's stuff over time and appreciate the South Africa perspective on things, particularly.

I hope people who know nothing by direct experience or direct contact/observation with the Native American issues in America keep something in mind. Propaganda is heavy ON BOTH SIDES in the modern times.

The evils and sins of the past? ..not so much on two sided. Not so much at ALL, really and "I will fight no more...." linked in my signature line is a compelling story I wrote about the last running battle of the Nez Perce Tribe as they were literally hunted down to near extinction as a people. History is a bloody bloody thing we have nothing to be proud of in some BIG BIG aspects of.

History though, it is...and I believe, strongly by personally seeing much of this as well as following the Native issues as more than curious sideline, it's FAR more complex a matter today than to just say they are in the situation they are in strictly by outside forces and outside dirty tricks.

Dirty tricks and ..yeah, Genocide (almost is an accurate word for the Indian Wars)...IS what got them onto the reservations and places like the checkerboard lands of the 4 corners area (as one of the worst for mining contamination and toxic pollution to their living space).

The dark history of it isn't more than one of a variety of factors keeping it how it is now tho....and it's a lot more complex than many would try to make it seem, in my opinion.



posted on Jan, 21 2014 @ 08:52 AM
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halfoldman
reply to post by NavyDoc
 

No, not defending apartheid, but making a comparison.

If apartheid was declared a crime against humanity (and rightfully so), then any country should at least not do worse than apartheid on human rights these days.



I was being a bit tongue and cheek. There are many people who swear that SA apartheid was the worse thing ever in the history of the world and you, sensibly, point out that is not really the case. Of course apartheid was a bad thing but the Afrikaaners also did a lot of positive things and raised up a country that is not a 3rd world #hole. That's the trouble with some of the cause-driven, racial strife guilt mongers--they can only see one side of the coin.
edit on 21-1-2014 by NavyDoc because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 21 2014 @ 08:56 AM
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Metallicus
Wait! You live in South Africa and are giving Americans advice on how to treat native peoples?

Oh the irony.



I understand your point. But on whom do you think South Africa modeled thier policies? Many irroneously say Nazi Germany or what not. In reality South African modeled apartheid based on the United States. Yep, the United States. For a great read, check out Leonard Thompson's A History of South Africa. A fantastic book.


edit on 21-1-2014 by FatherStacks because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 21 2014 @ 08:59 AM
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OpinionatedB
reply to post by NavyDoc
 


What I would like to see is everyone working together. We need to hit a restart button and let go of the past, and work toward a future that benefits everyone. ALL of us, and disregard and fight in good manner those who would stand against a better healthier future.

Reservation lands has something no one else has, and it can be used to a very definite benefit, and that is sovereignty. That is where the good lawyers come into play.

Its all in finding that nitch, one that is good for the soul of the indigenous peoples.. and coming together as one.
edit on 21-1-2014 by OpinionatedB because: (no reason given)


I see your point, however, even with the sovereignty of the reservation system, the people are still, if not more vulnerable not only to the abuses of our government, but their own tribal elders. One side of the coin is that, with the money that rolls in from casinos and untaxed cigarettes and other such things made possible by the sovereignty is that oft the tribal elders become a bit despotic themselves. Power and money do corrupt.

One cannot bring back the past, but I'd wager that a contemporary native American would not want to return to a pre-Columbian Neolithic life either. Like for the native Americans was not like a Disney movie either and there was war and bloodshed between tribes and it wasn't a spiritual peaceful existence in harmony with nature like contemporary revisionists and romanticists like to believe.

In the long run, I'd say individual freedom and self reliance, removal of the reservation system, and full integration into society would be the best for individual native Americans.



posted on Jan, 21 2014 @ 09:03 AM
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FatherStacks

Metallicus
Wait! You live in South Africa and are giving Americans advice on how to treat native peoples?

Oh the irony.



I understand your point. But on whom do you think South Africa modeled thier policies? Many irroneously say Nazi Germany or what not. In reality South African modeled apartheid based on the United States. Yep, the United States. For a great read, check out Leonard Thompson's A History of South Africa. A fantastic book.


edit on 21-1-2014 by FatherStacks because: (no reason given)


I have to say, in 40 years of life and living in America..I've never heard it suggested that South Africa modeled it's Apartheid regime and structure of racial division on United States models of living with the Native American population. Have anything to support that assertion aside from someone's book on Amazon? I mean..academic material or sourced documents to give more basis to that thought?

I'm genuinely interested, as that would be a BIG deal if shown to be something we could accept as historically accurate?



posted on Jan, 21 2014 @ 09:10 AM
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NavyDoc
In the long run, I'd say individual freedom and self reliance, removal of the reservation system, and full integration into society would be the best for individual native Americans.


While I agree with you on the individual freedom and self-reliance, and perhaps to some extent the removal of the reservation system, I would respectfully disagree on the full integration part. My great grandmother was Lakota, and as a child she was ripped from the reservation and sent to a "reform" school in Pennsylvania. There they systematically degraded her identity as native woman in order to force assimilation. She bore that pain of conflicted feelings about her identity every day of her life.

There is still the problem on native children being taking from their homes and adopted into white homes. As a result of such policies (and many others), integration/assimilation talk is a sensitive subject for many Native Americans and rightfully so.



posted on Jan, 21 2014 @ 09:12 AM
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Wrabbit2000


I have to say, in 40 years of life and living in America..I've never heard it suggested that South Africa modeled it's Apartheid regime and structure of racial division on United States models of living with the Native American population. Have anything to support that assertion aside from someone's book on Amazon? I mean..academic material or sourced documents to give more basis to that thought?

I'm genuinely interested, as that would be a BIG deal if shown to be something we could accept as historically accurate?



Thompson's book is considered by many to be the foremost history on the subject. But, I can go back through my notes from the history of South Africa class I took in college and probably pull out a few more. Might take me a little time.



posted on Jan, 21 2014 @ 09:18 AM
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I've noticed a lot of people in North America have a downer on First Nation's Peoples. Maybe they have a reason for it? They complain about their tax-breaks and their alcoholism. I can see how the latter could put you off. Saying that, I do think the Invaders do owe them.

BTW, isn't Pine-Ridge where Crazy Horse defeated the US Army? Maybe that's got something to with the way the people on the reservation are treated? I know that Indians celebrate the victory, and that the US Army protest the celebrations as wrong. Lmao. Such hypocrisy. It astounds me that Strip Clubs are allowed to call themselves Crazy-Horse. That's just plain wrong. It's not enough to destroy Indian culture. They drag his name through the mud centuries later.

For those sympathetic, I recommend you listen to John Trudell. His wife and child were allegedly murdered by the CIA for speaking out against the govt.

www.youtube.com...
edit on 21-1-2014 by ScreenBogey because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 21 2014 @ 09:22 AM
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i have many friends on that rez and several other close by, it's getting really bad these days, large gangs, poverty, lack of education and jobs, well the list goes on. what they have is what we will all have, soon enough. you could easily say the same for Detroit and several other cities, or soon will be able to anyway.

i seen Russ Means mentioned in a post earlier, he was good man and i miss him, he was a good voice for all peoples native or not.

i'm a native man, not Lakota, but as i said i have many cola's who are so it hits home when i see these threads but i'm glad some old man from South Africa took the time to care, props to you OP.


we have govt. corruption just like all governments seem to be. the money comes in and never seems to get where it's supposed to go, sound familiar to anyone?

it's not a native issue, it's not even a Lakota issue, it's a global human being issue we all have before us. it's 7 billion human beings verses several thousand wealthy pricks, that's what it is. the sooner we all realize we are together, the sooner we can collectively fix it, that's about the gist of the situation.

i thank you all for taking the time to care, it means a lot.



posted on Jan, 21 2014 @ 09:23 AM
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ScreenBogey
and that the US Army protest the celebrations as wrong. Lmao. Such hypocrisy.


It wouldn't surprise me. I doubt they even give a hoot about the natives when they celebrate the victory of the Spanish, French and Dutch armies over the British Empire on July the 4th.



posted on Jan, 21 2014 @ 09:23 AM
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reply to post by FatherStacks
 


FWIW... I'm coming to make a game out of finding gross inaccuracies and presumption presented as fact in modern, raw academic text books that are current and sold as the standard for education on some courses, nation wide here. So... My skepticism on what would represent a wholesale rewrite of one section of history does..absolutely..need more than a single book reference, no matter who wrote it...to my thinking anyway.

I'm not saying it's not accurate. I'm not South African...but for being the model you're saying they used to build the system on? I'd have thought we'd hear about it. especially in the 80s when I was more than interested in a passing way for the anti-South Africa activism in the United States. Never heard mention we caused it..even from those folks. Ahh well. I love learning tho and this would be an extreme legacy of policy, if accurate.



posted on Jan, 21 2014 @ 09:27 AM
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I had read a dry but fact book awhile back that just may have been the key component driving the usa to where it is now ...It may also be a part of other peoples destiny ..
A Movement As Old As America Itself

Although the movement was named in 1845, the philosophy behind Manifest Destiny always existed throughout American History. For example, in 1818 Andrew Jackson, while taking a broad interpretation of vague instructions from President Monroe, led military forces into the Floridas during the Florida crisis. In a systematic and ruthless way, he punished the Seminal Indians for taking up arms with the Spanish, destroyed Spanish forces, and captured several cities and forts. (Demkin, Chapter 8). Americans who had moral reservations about the rough tactics of Jackson, soothed their consciences with a familiar, but not yet named philosophy. Their reasoning, the Floridas were part of American territory; therefore, destiny intended that America should have them.

www.let.rug.nl...

Just thought I would share ....It does explain how tptb used Christianity to bring about what they had envisioned .



posted on Jan, 21 2014 @ 09:31 AM
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FatherStacks

NavyDoc
In the long run, I'd say individual freedom and self reliance, removal of the reservation system, and full integration into society would be the best for individual native Americans.


While I agree with you on the individual freedom and self-reliance, and perhaps to some extent the removal of the reservation system, I would respectfully disagree on the full integration part. My great grandmother was Lakota, and as a child she was ripped from the reservation and sent to a "reform" school in Pennsylvania. There they systematically degraded her identity as native woman in order to force assimilation. She bore that pain of conflicted feelings about her identity every day of her life.

There is still the problem on native children being taking from their homes and adopted into white homes. As a result of such policies (and many others), integration/assimilation talk is a sensitive subject for many Native Americans and rightfully so.


You are right of course. I honestly didn't mean forced integration but more the integration that would occur over time if people where independent and self reliant and not stuck in some corner in the middle of nowhere with only people exactly like them. Get them out, encourage going to university, let them have their own farm or business or whatever and they will integrate on their own just like a myriad of formerly marginalized ethnic and cultural groups have throughout history. Isolation on the reservation will continue the stagnation we see today.



posted on Jan, 21 2014 @ 09:36 AM
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Wrabbit2000


I understand historiography. I'm not offended by your challenges, rather I welcome it and view is as responsible discourse. But with all due respect, I'm not just pulling this out of my ass. The body of literature supporting it is fairly respectable. I don't have access to databases like ebsco host, and many of my notebooks and history texts are at my parent's place right now. Yet, here's another example:

"In introducing the apartheid legislation, the Nationalist leadership made it clear that their point of reference was the American South. Piloting through parliament the Prohibition of Mixed Marriages Bill of 1949, Eben Donges, Minster for the Interior, justified it by reference to the existence of a similar law in 30 sates in teh United Sates of America."


That was from: Giliomee, Herman. "The Making of the Apartheid Plan, 1929-1948." Journal of Southern African Studies, Vol. 29, No. 2. (June 2003), p.373-392


For another, see:

Carter, G. "The Politics of Inequality", London: Thames and Hudson, 1958. pg 78.



edit on 21-1-2014 by FatherStacks because: (no reason given)



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