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Aphorism
reply to post by BlueMule
I use words as signs or symbols. I think most people do. That way we can communicate through a common frame of reference. I'm not really sure I understand how you are using words. To me, mind is a word that symbolizes something important. It's like a finger pointing to the moon.
Do you think that finger should be cut off? That we should ignore the moon? I'm really not sure what your point is. Do you want humanity to stop using or replace words that have been particularly abused?
I really had no point. I was trying to respond in a pithy manner.
Signs and symbols for what? is the question. I mean what are we symbolizing with the word mind? It is the same as consciousness or soul or spirit; every time we use these words we are simply talking about ourselves. It is just another word for the human being—the only thing of importance worth symbolizing with these words—and I think beyond that there is nothing to symbolize.
Then what conclusion are you attempting to outline in this thread? What's your point here?
Aphorism
reply to post by BlueMule
I use words as signs or symbols. I think most people do. That way we can communicate through a common frame of reference. I'm not really sure I understand how you are using words. To me, mind is a word that symbolizes something important. It's like a finger pointing to the moon.
Do you think that finger should be cut off? That we should ignore the moon? I'm really not sure what your point is. Do you want humanity to stop using or replace words that have been particularly abused?
I really had no point. I was trying to respond in a pithy manner.
Signs and symbols for what? is the question. I mean what are we symbolizing with the word mind? It is the same as consciousness or soul or spirit; every time we use these words we are simply talking about ourselves. It is just another word for the human being—the only thing of importance worth symbolizing with these words—and I think beyond that there is nothing to symbolize.
Aphorism
That some thinkers are creating a god out of what they do not understand—the human being.
Allow me to ask you another question, if you would be so kind: which part of us defines the word "human" - our minds, or our bodies?
Do you have an unconscious mind? As opposed to your conscious mind. Assuming you know what I'm referring to here, are you consciously aware of the contents of your unconscious mind at all times? Do you recognize a difference between your conscious and unconscious minds?
Is your mind in a waking state at this very moment? If you answer yes, then you must have an intuitive sense of what I mean by the word mind. If you answer no, then maybe you are asleep?
Your body goes about its business of breathing day-in-day-out without your conscious involvement. But suppose you were to sit for a while and do some specific breathing exercises that require your concentration. You would be using your conscious mind to concentrate, would you not?
Aphorism
I would be using entirety of my being in an effort to practice breathing exercises.
Aphorism
Consciousness, as it is used here and in quantum mind theories and new age piety, is nothing but the duct tape of human misunderstanding, patching up every hole with “consciousness”, which amounts to nothing more than a human being thinking about himself and making himself out to be something other than what he really is, just as we’ve done for millennia. We don’t know why we have thoughts, see things, have sensations, feel... and when we open ourselves up to find out why, we’re surprised when we don’t find anything but more body. Shouldn’t this tell us something? Why do we feel pain? Hit yourself and find out. Why do we feel cold? Go out in the snow. Why do we feel heat? Go near a fire. There’s no brain feeling it; there’s no substance or mystical ghost feeling it; there’s no “consciousness” feeling it; there is only one thing and one thing only moving towards the heat, hitting himself, thinking, doubting, seeing, hearing, engaging in subjective experience, and imagining these theories into words.
Is it that we do not like ourselves enough to admit it?
That 'me' that 'you' only have is what? Is it an object with any type of reality except a thought - a persistent thought?
Aphorism
I only have me.
If you were aware of yourself alone (with no appearance - as in deep sleep) what would be apparent?
I am never fully aware of myself and my variety of processes.
Although I feel every single raindrop when it rains, I am not aware of nor concern myself with every single one of them.
Aphorism
reply to post by AfterInfinity
Allow me to ask you another question, if you would be so kind: which part of us defines the word "human" - our minds, or our bodies?
I don't believe there is such a dichotomy between mind and body, no "either or". This dichotomy is the product of Descartes' Cogito, which still runs deep in philosophy. Both terms explain little about ourselves and likely leads to more confusion when we choose to employ one term over the other.
If I had to force an analogy, I would liken the body to the instrument and the mind to the music it plays. Break the instrument, end the harmony. Music can never play itself. And an instrument that doesn't play music is likely no longer of any use to the universe that plays it.
It's like how Zeus was used as a placeholder for when we didn't understand what went on in the skies, or Poseidon for when we didn't understand the sea.
tgidkp
reply to post by Aphorism
It's like how Zeus was used as a placeholder for when we didn't understand what went on in the skies, or Poseidon for when we didn't understand the sea.
oh i get it now.
its like how the statistical model (previous post) is a placeholder for the apparently terrifying implications of quantum theory that the great priest Feynman has instructed us "no one understands".
so developing an actual explanation would be sorta like burning the bible?
this consciousness stuff must be truly horrifying.
Well written post, and opinion. I glean from this last part that perhaps you might be a materialist at heart. I could be wrong in my judgement of course...
Our body collects information for our consciousness, which I consider as awareness and interaction with our environment.
Information and consciousness are the fundamentals of everything in this universe and also give way to the essence what our sense of "self" is. Without either of these we don't have much of anything. It's what we use to build and fortify our constructs - of ourselves and our environment. It's what allows us to formulate an idea (however that works) and bring it into materialism. An idea has no material substance until we make it so. An idea is the result of information received from our environment, and introspection. So are ideas real or not? Are they material? What is the "self" that comes up with an idea in the first place?
Look out your window-- all of that, quite literally, is consciousness. It's awareness of and interactions with environment.
I think we forget sometimes that we are literally the universe. Made from the very same stuff. And out of this stuff, arose beings like ourselves that have become aware of the universe without and within. Is it any wonder that humans lie right in the middle of the scale of the universe and can see all the way up (out) and all the way down (in)? And at least on this planet, we appear to be the only things in the last 4.5 billion years to able to do so.
And when you're not practicing breathing exercises, there's something of your being you aren't using. How shall we refer to that something?
its like how the statistical model (previous post) is a placeholder for the apparently terrifying implications of quantum theory that the great priest Feynman has instructed us "no one understands".
so developing an actual explanation would be sorta like burning the bible?
this consciousness stuff must be truly horrifying.
Aphorism
Not even figuratively are we the universe. If you were the universe, I’d be sitting in a chair responding to your post somewhere inside you. It is a horrific thought.
Aphorism
reply to post by BlueMule
And when you're not practicing breathing exercises, there's something of your being you aren't using. How shall we refer to that something?
I am always using everything of my being. I don't have a choice.
Have you considered that you are existing inside other peoples heads from their perspective? Their created version of you in their mind is not you, so who is it? It is a horrific thought because people are not in 100% control of the image received by others only the image projected from themselves.
This is as straight up as it gets, nothing mysterious about this process.